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**Reel Slots** Gaming Machines => IGT S and S-plus Reel Games. => Topic started by: stayouttadabunker on November 22, 2008, 07:11:25 PM



Title: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on November 22, 2008, 07:11:25 PM
I know it can be done using either the four output pins on the right side of the motherboard that hooks into progressives?
Or using the output pins on the motherboard for the mechanical (hard) counters. :103-
I wanted to keep stats on my desktop from the S+.
You know, basic stuff...coin-in, coin-out, drop, and jackpots. :91-
These are basically momentarily open and closed pin-outs, right?
Could it communicate via the RS232 on your desktop computer? :5-
Any thoughts or answers on this would be fantastically appreciative! :89-


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: jay on November 22, 2008, 09:36:07 PM
The progressive doesn't output this information.

You have a 4 pin connector.
Not Used
Data In
grnd
Coin in

You have the coin In which produces a momentary short with ground upon a coin in or credit play.
data in allows the progressive to feed information back to the slot LCDs on a jackpot.
On a PE+ this shows the jackpot amount at all times on the screen.

I think this is a Rs422 protocol (not rs232).

What you are looking for is the SAS output, which is serial but follows a proprietary protocol.
Ideally I would like to put in a casino cash management system in place complete with card readers on the machines that would be cool.





Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on November 22, 2008, 10:57:03 PM
Thanks Jay,
I dont have a progressive system other than that little photron meter up behind the top award display glass.
There's a little harness from the topbox that feeds info to a small PCB board when then feeds thru a flat cable to the display.
I wonder if I could splice it and get the values from that and feed it to my desktop via
a rs422-to-rs232 convertor.
OR, should I splice into the (HARD) counters signals and send those to my computer? 


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: SAT (aka GANDHI) on November 23, 2008, 01:12:00 AM
100% in agreement with Jay...

The SAS output is the one you need... The information you are referring to is recalled/transmitted through SAS which is the proprietary com-protocol of IGT for online data management in slot machines.   

Once you "speak" SAS you are done... 

Actually, not sure if it's appropriate to ask for it here but I have been looking for an IGT manual where SAS is described from A to Z as communication protocol.

If somebody can give me a hand finding it I'll be greatly appreciated.

Moderators:  If I violated rules with my request please let me know and feel free to edit my post.

Best Regards.


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on November 23, 2008, 01:23:07 AM
That sounds rather difficult...trying to decipher a proprietary protocol.  :5-
I am not even interested in even trying to attempt that, as far as I'm concerned...
-IGT can keep their protocol and stick it where the sun dont shine?

I was just looking for a simple way, :72- not the hard way! :30-...  (purely in jest like the 3 stooges)

I'll just splice the outputs to the hard meters and run it to my computer.
Thanks for your input, and karmas + galore guys! :131- :3-

I'll post and let everyone know how I got it to work with windows xp...
I used a computer software of a regular burgular alarm hooked up to the S+'s "hard" meter counters.
These are all NO/NC circuits.
I changed the fonts in the dialog boxes that say for example: "door opened" or "smoke alarms" to "Coins-In" and "Coins-Out".
The alarm software counts every time a "door" is opened and every time a "window" is opened.
These are many inputs for an alarm and they all work with only two wires- a (+) and a (-)ground wire.
The alarm box communicates to my computer via RS232 cable.
Works great!
Now I have "Coins-In",Coins-Out","Drop", and "Jackpots" statistics all going to my desktop!




Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on November 23, 2008, 02:01:19 AM
This is a photo of the computer interface for the alarm control panel.
I used a much longer telephone wire that I bought from Lowes and ran it from my home alarm panel to my computer in the den.
Using the extra inputs on the alarm panel, I ran an extra telephone cable back to the S+ upstairs and spliced it with the wires going into the hard meters.
Now, all the info from the machine runs down to the control panel and back up to my computer via the PC-LINK-01.


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: jay on November 23, 2008, 05:15:27 PM
Progressive information is not related to the information on the hard meters.

A slot payback is based on the %chip and all sorts of regulations control how the machine plays.
A progressive is simply a marketing tool. For each coin in a % of that coin is added to the progressive amount.
Putting this into prospective for 1/8th of 1% you might be able to get someone to sit down on a slot that may not have otherwise sat there just because he sees a huge amount of money that has been gathered up from a number of machines. More than likely these machines have the 85% pay backs and I would be surprized if they were even 92% much less the 98% ones.

Back to the topic at hand - assuming you are just starting out at zero you would be able to capture COIN IN as each coin was played but you would not know which machine it came from and other than the top award you would have no idea of coin out.

Tapping the hard meters would give you the information you want , however you will need to build an interface for each machine and/or meter.

You will also need to do a fair bit of custom programming to read the serial information. You also need to remember that this is real time information meaning that the event happens when the event happens 6 coins paid from machine A might be occuring at the same time as machine B so you need to be polling the serial interface pretty fast and I am not sure how you will differentiate which machine it comes from. If you are going down this path you might be best with Linuix as you can download all sorts of open source code and not have to reinvent the wheel.

i did a fair bit of work with process control systems and basically all the information is buffered at the device sensor. The devices are called PLC's Programmable Logic Controllers. This then allows the serial interface to query each PLC at leisure rather than trying to do it in real time.

I think with SAS it reads the statistic information stored in the machine when it is required not in real time. This is the info that you get when you turn the jackpot reset key.
If this is already here, I am not one to want to reinvent the wheel.


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on November 23, 2008, 09:04:58 PM
Thanks for you good answer Jay! It is very helpful. :89-
At the moment though, I'm trying all kinds of things, believe me! lol

I've even taken a coin-in hard meter apart and noticed that when ever a coin is dropped, there's a signal driven to a magnetic relay? inside the hard counter that pulls on a pawl that turns the counter wheels.
I'm thinking of splicing into that signal ,using it as an NO/NC signal and running it back to the alarm system to give me a "coin-in" tally.
Essentially, every pulse is now returned to the alarm panel board , for example as : "door #1 opened" pulse.
That pulse in turn is returned to my desktop under a column which I named "Coin-In" - rather than "door#1 opened"

I am experimenting with an Office program that tallies up the amounts to give me statistical totals.
I do the same for the other hard meters (coin-out,drop,and jackpot) to get the same results.

Of course this is an old alarm system I had and it's not connected to the fire department or anything.
It's only connected to my desktop.
If it was , I'd have the fire trucks over at my house every time I put a quarter in the machine! :72-


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: Foster on November 23, 2008, 09:27:59 PM
I would rather figure out the SAS signals and data.
Have it converted to USB and grab the data that way.
I think the first of the year I am going to Ram Clear both machines.
Start recording it on regular basis.
I cant stand the hard meters so they are not even in use.
I just hope the soft meters don't reset with a game change.


 


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on November 23, 2008, 09:48:43 PM
Foster,
Can you post how you converted it to USB and show us how that could be done?
That would be very helpful :89-
I 'd like to try that as well.


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: Foster on November 24, 2008, 12:19:45 AM
I havent even started the project yet
I first have to find the SAS data connections at the motherboards.
Then talk to a freind or 2 that have the logic probes/scopes etc to look at the signals and capture them to study.


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: Ozzy on November 24, 2008, 11:18:12 AM
As far as I can recall SAS output uses J4 on the S+ mother pcb and you will need a DUART chip located in IC socket U18.


cheers


Ozzy


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on November 24, 2008, 12:48:13 PM
Awesome,Thanks OZZY!
I was always wondering what that J4 socket was for... :71-
Would anyone know what the J2 socket is used for?
Karmas + to you,Foster,Sat,and Jay. thanks guys!


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: Ozzy on November 24, 2008, 12:59:05 PM
Think this is an option for putting optics on the mpu pcb card cage,

J2

pin 1  24vac hot
pin 2  24 vac common
pin 3  B gnd
pin 4  Card Cage det
pin 5  B gnd
pin 6  Card Cage LED


cheers


Ozzy


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on November 24, 2008, 01:09:41 PM
Thanks Ozzy,
I agree with you...I just saw it on my schematics.
I need a magnifying glass because my schmeatic drawings are so small and distorted.
My eyes must be getting bad :5-

ADD>> In the U18 socket is a Phillips DUART SCN2681AC1N28 dip chip.


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: SAT (aka GANDHI) on November 25, 2008, 05:47:37 PM
Think this is an option for putting optics on the mpu pcb card cage,

J2

pin 1  24vac hot
pin 2  24 vac common
pin 3  B gnd
pin 4  Card Cage det
pin 5  B gnd
pin 6  Card Cage LED


cheers


Ozzy

Ozzy = NUMERO 1


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: Neonkiss on November 25, 2008, 07:00:18 PM
I'll post and let everyone know how I got it to work with windows xp...
I used a computer software of a regular burgular alarm hooked up to the S+'s "hard" meter counters.
These are all NO/NC circuits.

I do have a small amount of knowledge as to how an alarm system program works. The only problem I see in using that type of program is the system is constantly polling for an open circuit. It may take up to 1.5 seconds to compleat this audit of the system for a change in the contacts (closed to open).
You can see this happening in a commercial building with smoke detection. The panel sends out the signal to check the status of each device and waits for a reply. (That's the red blinking LED light on a smoke detector.) The problem I see is that a coin drop opens and closes a switch measured in mil seconds. This could happen before the system get around to checking that circuit again which by then would show no change since the last check and not regester the coin drop.
If you have that system hooked up to your computer you may want to check a very quick open and close of a contacts and see if it regesters before you spend a lot of time with this type of program.


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on November 25, 2008, 07:37:25 PM
I agree Neonkiss,
I thought I was getting the coin-in, but I was only getting part of it.
The polling is too slow on the alarm system.
I ended up disconnecting everything! :96-
It all came apart a lot faster than when I put it together... :72-

I tried though , huh?


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: TZtech on November 26, 2008, 06:32:15 AM
Hello All

I was recently looking at this device for my route operations. This captures the hardmeter pulses from the processor boards. I have not tried this system yet but it may work for you.
Although it would be better to use SAS as a failure on a meter drive transistor will screw up your accounting totally. The problem is that IGT only releases the SAS protocol to registered developers of gaming systems only. This is a pity as there have been a few requests here from people who lwould like to play with this. Foster if you do have any luck decoding the signals let us know.

Regards
Ian


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on November 26, 2008, 12:25:15 PM
Thanks for the excellent link TZ, :3-
I gotta give them a call. :89-
The interface board looks rather simple doesnt it? :89-
I wonder what's programmed on that chip that "reads" the data though. :103-
This may be what I was looking for! :91-


ADD>> karmas + to you good man!


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: Ozzy on November 26, 2008, 01:01:00 PM
Here is another company that does on line accounting and player tracking modules, very cheap prices, am considering the player tracking myself for a few units over here, WORKS OUT AT ABOUT $300 PER MACHINE.

http://www.cadaso.com (http://www.cadaso.com)

Guys contact name is Simon Lezard, new him back in the 80' and I think he is one of the guys that designed the systems.


cheers


Ozzy


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: TZtech on November 26, 2008, 01:39:06 PM
Hello Again

Cost they quoted me 2 months back was 175 Euro + 10 Euro for the software.
Thanks for the link Ozzy - That looks like something i should investigate further

Ozzy - have a look at www.sip.co.at if you are shopping for a system. Its a bit expensive (+/- $1000 per machine for hardware and $1 a day per device licensing) but it does accounting/cashless/progressives and promotions and due to the fact that it uses distributed computing does not require any servers of back of house equipment. All you need is a standard desktop for cashiers if you use cashless and it talk via standard network switches/cabling.

Not sure what machine you are running over there but it does talk to most of the newer stuff that talks SAS.

Regards
Ian


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: Ozzy on November 26, 2008, 02:19:09 PM
nice one mate, will check them out.


cheers


Ozzy


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on April 16, 2009, 04:00:46 PM
Well, I did it!  yea! :89-
I hooked up not one, but TWO S+'s to my home computer!  :71-
The controller is capable of taking in the data from 32 machines really...I hooked it up to the second and fourth lines on the data cable.
So far I can get the "Coins-In" and "Jackpots" paid out displayed on my desktop screen.... :91-
It's really cool...I made one of my lousy little short clips :72-
The 2 games are running on the "Auto-Play" Max bet buttons I had made during the winter.
You can hear the 2 machines playing off credits in the background as I'm running to the computer...lol
Here it is>>>>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAaHIXNzT-Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAaHIXNzT-Y)


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: jay on April 16, 2009, 04:49:23 PM
Hi,

The video won't actually allow me to click on it and play it.

IS this connected up through the progressive controller (ie would I need to buy a CDS progressive) or are you interfaced directly to the machine ?


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on April 16, 2009, 05:32:36 PM
I got the CDS controller last year from April for about 35 bucks, I had got it going briefly but it was so complicated at that time I put it in a box for the winter.
I recently picked up a couple of displays fairly cheap, so I thought I'd give it another shot.
The controller is directly hooked up to my computer via a serial cable which is only using 3 wires.
Other wires (located in a separate serial cable) goes from the controller to the the S+'s motherboard outputs at the J11 header.
Since I have the Mikohns using the J11 header, I made an adapter so I can basically "plug-n-play" (so I can use both systems at the same time).
Each S+ needs 3 wires (ground wire,Address wire,SAS wire). So the harness is really simple.
You program machine addresses to the controller,then the machines SAS spits out all the data back to the controller.
With yet another serial cable, the controller "talks" to the displays and everything is pre-calculated and the displayed onto my desktop.   

Tomorow, I'll try to get the Prosolo displays up and running!


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: kenokarz on April 16, 2009, 05:34:54 PM
this could be the 1st step in to the ticket in on the b/v and have the machine read the ticket printed from that machine,  :89-
neat video,  :3- :3- thanks


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on April 16, 2009, 05:38:42 PM
Jay,
This might be a way to get to the video>>
Go to youtube.com and under "search', type in:

"S+'s hooked up to a home computer."

These are capable of hooking up to a [BALLY MASTERCOM 250 CARD READER CONTROLLER] too....
April has them for 25 bucks with the software too!

I'm having a ball with this stuff :97-


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on April 16, 2009, 09:45:31 PM
this could be the 1st step in to the ticket in on the b/v and have the machine read the ticket printed from that machine,  :89-
neat video,  :3- :3- thanks

Exactly what I'm trying to accomplish...I already have a ticket printer hooked up to my S+...
What I need to do now,  is flash the DBV eprom with pictures of the tickets that come out of the printer so the DBV will accept it...
have the DBV lose various seeking properties such as magetic and size.... :96-
Come to think of it, the bulk tickets we got a few weeks ago are exactly the same size as U.S. bills,.....hmm...
It can't be THAT hard , huh?

My question now would be, which S+ DBV has flashable eproms?  :103-
I need to rip apart a DBV chip and insert my own pictures :129-


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on April 16, 2009, 09:56:29 PM
Are barcodes printed out on real tickets? Now I'm thinking barcode reading....arghhh!
The TI-TO technology must be based on these barcodes printing to make the acceptor "read" a tickets  "value" I would think...and they probably don't have magnetic reading abilities either.
Anybody got a working TITO on a home machine? I'll buy it!


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: dpalmi on April 16, 2009, 10:19:39 PM
Hello!

Depends on what you mean by working...I have an IGT S2000 that I can print valid TITO tickets out when I cash out - but the machine won't take them back in.  If this is what you are interested in - what do you want to know?  I'd be glad to help.  Yes - when you print a cash out ticket, it has a barcode on it.  The barcode represents a "Validation" number.  I don't believe the number itself has anything to do with the value of the ticket.  In the casino world, when you print a ticket - the machine sends a central server that number with the value/etc.  Then when you try to use the ticket, whatever device reads the ticket verifies it has a good number on it and then pulls that info from the central server for the value/etc.  That's how I understand it anyway...what other info do you need?

Dan #2


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: SAT (aka GANDHI) on April 16, 2009, 10:25:40 PM
Hello!

Depends on what you mean by working...I have an IGT S2000 that I can print valid TITO tickets out when I cash out - but the machine won't take them back in.  If this is what you are interested in - what do you want to know?  I'd be glad to help.  Yes - when you print a cash out ticket, it has a barcode on it.  The barcode represents a "Validation" number.  I don't believe the number itself has anything to do with the value of the ticket.  In the casino world, when you print a ticket - the machine sends a central server that number with the value/etc.  Then when you try to use the ticket, whatever device reads the ticket verifies it has a good number on it and then pulls that info from the central server for the value/etc.  That's how I understand it anyway...what other info do you need?

Dan #2

Better explanation impossible.... 

Dan #2:   Now I have nothing to say  !!!!  :30-  :96-


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: dpalmi on April 16, 2009, 10:25:58 PM
Here's a picture of one from my machine....

Dan #2


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: Ozzy on April 16, 2009, 10:35:27 PM
As far as I am aware if you don't have the purchased TITO setup from IGT all tickets will produce a bar code of "ZERO" value, althought the ticket number will be printed regrding the number of tickets the machine has generated until a ram clear then it will start at ticket number 1.


cheers


O Z Z Y


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on April 16, 2009, 11:28:03 PM
Awesome info, thanks guys :3-

But which S+ DBV has flash-able proms?


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: dpalmi on April 16, 2009, 11:38:12 PM
Hello all!

Ok - I got out my barcode scanner and scanned the ticket on my computer.  The barcode reads the same # as the validation shows "000000000098211498" <--- I did not type this number in - I scanned the barcode right into this post.  The barcode scanners I have just connect between the keyboard and the computer...so it just emulates typing on the keyboard whatever the barcode has.  So the barcode itself is not just zeros - it is the validation # that shows on the ticket.  Not that any of this helps much...lol....

Dan #2


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: StatFreak on April 16, 2009, 11:41:01 PM
Ozzy, I don't know about professional slot programs, but I do know data and general computing. I would think that the slot would send out the value of the credits assigned to the ticket at the time of its generation, either through the general SAS protocol or through that CDS Prolink device. The slot might not care whether there was a computer on the other end to receive the information, depending on whether the protocol called for two-way verification, and whether such a requirement were activated in the slot. In order for the value of the ticket to be stored, there would need to be a server on the other end connected to or housing a database that would create a record to hold the dollar value along with all of the other important information about the record.

It would also make sense to have the database generate the (unique) ticket ID (recID) and send it to the slot to print on the ticket after verifying the transaction, so a slot with a ticket printer that is not set up with SAS would probably just generate ticket IDs on its own as you say, or perhaps starting from some arbitrary number that could entered during set up. Once properly set up, I would expect the ticket number to be sent to the slot from the database through the communication server. The slot would then print the ticket with the received number.

Of course, I could be completely wrong. :96- :30-


<ADD> dpalmi, that's what I would have expected, since the record ID of the ticket is all that the computer would need, unless they wanted to add some security measures to prevent counterfeiting.  :71- 


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on April 16, 2009, 11:49:24 PM
I did a little reading and found out that I could indeed convert a DBV-200...
 into using a re-writeable eeprom with bar code ticket info added to the eeprom.
That way i can stick a ticket directly into a DBV-200 head and get credits on a S+...!
I believe that a TITO and DBV's are nothing more than fancy punchcards that IBM used to use in the 60's...lol
reminds me of the hanging chads in Florida voting terminals...


I am not afraid to rip apart stuff to see what makes it tick.... :96-

This would be, in my mind, a great innovation for home S+ owners!


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: jay on April 17, 2009, 12:28:40 AM
Well before you get out the puddy knife to start prying those chips off......

I believe that any item inserted into the bill validator if it is NOT validated by the DBV subsequently makes a query from the central database if it is available.
So presumeably if the ticket had a bar code of 323 - the 323 gets passed to the database, the database returns a lookup of 120credits and subsequently sends it to the slot via EFT (Electronic Funds Transfer). The 323 would then be deleted from the database so the same ticket could not be used again.

The fly in the ointment to what SOB suggests of just plugging stuff in the the DBV200 chip is that there could be 20 million different values and for each to be recognised would take up a lot of space on the dbv200chip. You would be better off storing images of monoply money and then you only deal with 1,5,10,20,50,100,500,1000 (the monopoly currencies). or even better get the database back end.


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: MikeC on April 17, 2009, 01:22:43 AM
Perhaps the thing to do is figure out how to get the system to print the cash value on the ticket (in barcode form) rather than the identification number of the ticket.  Then zap the BV to read barcodes as dollar values and store it as if it came in from EFT (or route it through EFT).  The BV is already reading "dollars" and storing their value as credits, so the path to "store as credits" is probably already in the chip somewhere.  Just find where it reads the barcode and sends to central, and branch  and store the value in the "store as credits" code.

Of course, this would only be useful to home users since ANYONE can print a "ticket" with a barcode that represents a numeric value. 

-MC


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: StatFreak on April 17, 2009, 01:59:16 AM
Perhaps the thing to do is figure out how to get the system to print the cash value on the ticket (in barcode form) rather than the identification number of the ticket.  Then zap the BV to read barcodes as dollar values and store it as if it came in from EFT (or route it through EFT).  The BV is already reading "dollars" and storing their value as credits, so the path to "store as credits" is probably already in the chip somewhere.  Just find where it reads the barcode and sends to central, and branch  and store the value in the "store as credits" code.

Of course, this would only be useful to home users since ANYONE can print a "ticket" with a barcode that represents a numeric value. 

-MC


I think that this would end up being much more problematic than sending the bar code ID to a computer with a database. The DBV doesn't store the dollar bills values as credits. It sends the value of the bill to the machine which, in turn, converts the dollar value to credits. The dbv uses the "room" in the ROM chip to store the digital representation of the visual and magnetic data that it expects to see for each bill: a static "picture", if you will, of what each bill looks like. The dbv200 has to have four images for each denomination -- one for each direction. These are what take up most of the space in the ROM. Mapping one (or four) of these images to a single value representing that the image is worth $50 (for example) takes up almost no space. The dbv ends up sending a single value to the machine to indicate the value of the bill in whole dollars and the machine applies the credit/dollar value (a value stored in its CMOS memory from the SET chip setup in the example of an S+) to determine how many credits to give.


The DBV ROM couldn't possibly store values for every possible bar code. What you would want to do would be to set it up to read each of the 10 bars representing a single digit. It would then have to concatenate the digits read into a dollar/cent value and then transmit that as a single dollar value to the machine. To do that, you would probably have to completely re-code the dbv software, since I doubt very much if it was ever designed to do such a thing.

It would be much easier to serially output the string of numbers read off of the bar code using the established communication protocol and to have the computer handle the transaction on the other end.

Op-Bell, feel free to jump in here and slap me if necessary!


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on April 17, 2009, 02:00:08 AM
I think we need our resident DBV guy to shed some light on this subject  :89-

OP BELL !!!! HELP!!! :99-


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: SAT (aka GANDHI) on April 17, 2009, 03:55:25 PM
I think we need our resident DBV guy to shed some light on this subject  :89-

OP BELL !!!! HELP!!! :99-

For sure!!  OP-BELL is "THE ONE" in this subject... 

I´m reading interesting stuff here, thanks for sharing all your knowledge gentlemen


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: jay on April 17, 2009, 06:26:34 PM
Stat I agree with your speculation that there would be no correlating value of the images stored.

It would be my presumption that the SET chip polls the the firmware checksum so if the DBV becomes altered from the time the casino enables it then it disables the reader functionality. This would be a security feature.

I would then suspect that when the machine is in operation that the DBV upon the successful validation a bill simply returns a value of 0 thru 5 representing each of the 6 bills 1,5,10,20,50,100.
and the slot would then convert this to credits.

- Just to be clear I am just speculating here - but this method would allow the DBV to work with Canadian, Euros, Francs, Pesos (or whatever) and the coding at the slot end would not need to change.

Knowing that a bar code CAN be read... then If the machine was to get a value of something else ofther than the (0 through 5) presumeably the value of the bar code (as why would they waste another register) then the slot would need to pass this value to SAS so it could be externally processed. SAS would then send back the EFT value would be used for credits.

SO if this functionality is already there that means the dis-assembly would be at the slot end not at the DBV/JCM interface. Unless of course you want to change the $1.00 image for a Monopoly buck etc.

Further extrapolating this line of speclation you would then think that you could create a small circuit that would acknowledge the SAS query and replay that value back as a EFT amount. This circuit would require a Rs422 driver and a working knowlege of the SAS protocol to both accurately read the value being sent as well as to forumate the EFT transfer command.

Just my theories.....perhaps someone with some real knowlege would be as kind as to enlighen us....
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on April 18, 2009, 12:07:01 AM
I have no knowledge, but I can "lighten" things up a little...
I wonder if Monopoly money works in a Monopoly machine.... :96-


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: StatFreak on April 18, 2009, 02:25:15 AM
I have no knowledge, but I can "lighten" things up a little...
I wonder if Monopoly money works in a Monopoly machine.... :96-

You could try it in Atlantic City the next time that you're there.. Just tell them that you mistook the stuff for the real thing and that it was left over in your wallet from your last AC conquest (the home of Monopoly™). I'll visit you every month. :30- :97- :97- :97-


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: SAT (aka GANDHI) on April 18, 2009, 03:47:52 PM
...
I wonder if Monopoly money works in a Monopoly machine.... :96-

 :97- :97- wow that's a good one....  I bet WMS has released a service notification about that in their support site  :5-


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: RBPerrine on May 11, 2009, 02:36:49 PM
in the back of my S+ book ( 1993 edition) they have some prints on a fiber optics interface module for the SIS system. #754-216-10 Rev C
 the fiber optics board connects to J13 printer jack on the mother board, then loops thru the machines to the DOC using the fiber optics cable.
What's the point of putting this on the printer out.....if you can get all the data from the DuArt at J4?

A while ago in a bunch of junk that I bought....I got some IGT  #754-22030 boards.   The have a TLP504A opto isloator on them and a MAX232CPE....which is a RS 232  serial port chip. It's very similar to the fiber optics board....anyone know what it's for?


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on May 11, 2009, 03:07:38 PM
I have a couple of the 1992 ASSY NO. 7542200 boards...
They both have the MAX232CPE serial port chips on them as well.
On the J2 header, it's a 4-pin
The J82A header is a 6-pin.
Both boards have 5   2-pin jumpers as well...
I'm thinking this board is very similar to the one you're speaking of ?
Click on photo to enlarge and make clearer...>>>





Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: RBPerrine on May 11, 2009, 03:28:34 PM
yes  same board.....If you have some of the Pic Microchip books.....you'l find a circuit for the MAX as a bi-directional input/output chip.
So this board  can be your interface from the DuArt or the printer port to your computer.
I don't have anything on it's orginal purpose....
the optic isolator is a Toshiba  quad unit....and you have a couple of smitt triggers for cleaning pulses.


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on May 11, 2009, 03:33:49 PM
I wish I had some sort of circuit schematics...these boards don't have any harnesses....I will have to try and make them
The pin outs for wiring will be the puzzle...as well as computer software.
My guess is that the J82A 6-pin header on the #7542200 board will go to the J13 header on the S+ motherboard?
The J2 header on the #7542200 board might go to the computer's serial port?


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: RBPerrine on May 12, 2009, 03:50:47 AM
do a search on the MAX 232CPE and print out the chip info......the opto-islator is in the Digi-key catalog.
the rest you can draw out fairly easily.
I got off the project  and didn't quite finish my drawing....but once you know the pin in for the the chip and the outs...everything fairly easy.
It has a 7805  5V regualtor....so you just grab B+ voltage (probably 12VDC so the regulartor worksOK) from somewhere in your wiring harnesses.


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: racergiant on May 12, 2009, 05:12:27 AM
That connector on the right-side edge looks suspiciously like the audio cable you get to connect the audio out port on cd-roms to the audio inputs on PC motherboards...

What it does with this card - I have not a clue....


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: brichter on May 12, 2009, 06:25:35 AM
That connector on the right-side edge looks suspiciously like the audio cable you get to connect the audio out port on cd-roms to the audio inputs on PC motherboards...

What it does with this card - I have not a clue....

They actually seem to be used a lot in IGT slots...


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on May 12, 2009, 12:19:17 PM
My IGT "Service & Parts" S+ manual was printed June 18,1993.
In section 5.16, starting from page 181, there's a bit of information on various "data collection" boards.
However, most of these boards have to do with fiber optics and the ASSY NO.'s only go up to ASSY NO.754216.
This particular board is ASSY NO.7542200 , while RBPerrine's board is ASSY NO.75422030.
Would anyone have a IGT "Service & Parts" S+ manual dated after June 18,1993 ?  :103-
I could use a copy   :99-



Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: RBPerrine on June 21, 2009, 11:44:03 PM
OK......I did some re-drawing.......so attached is a schematic for the 754-220-30 board.
Note that since  U1 isn't on the board.....communication is only one way.

that would make.....

pins 5 and 6  the input......and pin 3 (on the 4 pin jack) data out.

Does this work for you ,  Bunker?

Rich


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on June 22, 2009, 12:20:15 AM
I'll get into it more tomorow when I print it out and examine it...
thanks for the re-drawing of it...
I'm sure it'll help us solve this.!


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: RBPerrine on June 22, 2009, 01:01:46 AM
I'm also thinking about the photo-transistor  from the isolator going to U1.....even though the sockets empty.....there may be a
couple of other parts that terminate there also....and may complete the reutrn loop.
OR.....U1 may be something that just stores info.....until the computer calls to collect it....

I'll revisit the board again in a few days.

Rich


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on June 22, 2009, 11:52:53 AM
I agree... :89-
the more I look at this U1, it may be just a simple CMOS DIP chip that goes in there for data storage...
probably nothing more...
I'm more amazed that no one in our slot community seems to know what this board is for and how it's hooked up... :5-


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: RBPerrine on June 22, 2009, 01:14:55 PM
Max 232 is a serial feeder......you can search it and down load the data sheet......or look in some of the Micro Pic circuit desigh books.
I've been looking at it for another project.......controling the slot machine with a read/write magnetic card reader.....and taking the
hopper, coin in and BV out.

RBPerrine@att.net


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: Paladin on August 16, 2009, 02:57:48 PM
Trying to figure out why my DBV 200 in my IGT S+ won't work, I found some wires that don't go anywhere and some connectors that aren't connected.  I did a search on a board# in my machine that has an empty connector, and found this thread.  From what I'm reading here, nobody knows what the board does?  I guess I'll just leave it there then!

The J1 header wires go to J4 on the motherboard extension (proper name?) board on the bottom of the game.  There is a tag on the wires labeled TEST 021 WE.
Here's a couple pictures in case anyone can use the info:


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: CaptainHappy on August 16, 2009, 08:16:20 PM
I think the board pictured is some type of interface for player tracking hardware and systems, which is why most of us never use them. One of our casino folks could probably give confirmation and more information.  :103-

CaptainHappy :nlg-


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on August 16, 2009, 08:31:51 PM
The top pic is one of several boards I have and really don't now what they're for actually.
The bottom picture is your S+ motherboard on the floor.
See that long, thin black connector on the floor next to it?
Plug it in on the motherboard.


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: Paladin on August 16, 2009, 08:47:43 PM
The other end of that cable terminates in a 2 pin connector that isn't plugged into anything.  What is that connector supposed to connect up to on the other end?


Title: Re: Isn't there a simple way to hook up an S+ to a Desktop?
Post by: stayouttadabunker on August 17, 2009, 01:09:59 PM
Okay,
It seems that the 15-pin J9 connector header on the motherboard is for several things.
But it looks like the red and green wires on your connector are for a drop meter and lockout.
The reason why there's nothing on the other end is because it was taken out before you got the machine.
This was probably an option that was installed when the machine was at one time in a casino.
Whether it's plugged into your motherboard or not should not affect your DBV.
But, if the red and green wire on that particular coonetor is located at pins number 1 and 3 on the motherboard, then I would plug it back into the power as those are the pin outs for the ground and 24 vac.
This may or may be needed to go to DBV's power supply
( if it has a corresponding connector at the end of it) if there's no other harness going to the DBV.
It is however, mainly important that the J6 connector has a harness going up to the DBV.
The J6 header is the main tunnel for the bill acceptor's in/out data, as well as the power for the DBV.