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Author Topic: Can't belive this.  (Read 10670 times)
poppo
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« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2011, 05:31:19 PM »

Okay, so what's a good "whole house" surge protector to install at the circuit box? 

...and are these something I can install myself, or would I need to call an electrician?

They have the ones that pop in just like a breaker. But even the other ones are pretty easy to install. Just be sure to turn off the main breaker first (and verify it is off) before doing any work.
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SLOTMAN
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« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2011, 01:58:24 PM »

Knagl, technically I should say any electrical device needs to be installed by a qualified electrician but the instructions that come with them are self explanatory.  As poppo said, the breaker type are the easiest but you need to make sure that you look for the type that fits your panel.  Keep in mind, like anything else you get what you pay for.  If you look at the specs of a BRSURGE for instance, you will see that it varies compared to a TPSA9040 for example.

At the minimum, you end up with a cheap insurance policy that will supplement your homeowners deductible in the event of a major surge.
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poppo
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« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2011, 12:04:55 AM »

In your opinion how good is the typical UPS in cleaning dirty power ?

Keep in mind there are several types of UPSs. The more common and cheaper ones basically just pass the AC through (with maybe a filter and surge suppression). When AC fails, the inverter takes over. But these units typically output a modified square wave which is not always the best thing to use, especially for things like switching power supplies. A step up is a UPS that outputs a pure sine wave when on backup power. Then the 'top of the line' units actually run off of the pure sine wave inverter all of the time, and the house AC just keeps the inverter running and the battery charged. This unit offers the most protection because it pretty much totally isolates the input from the output.
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KirkLasVegas
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« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2011, 02:48:41 AM »

In your opinion how good is the typical UPS in cleaning dirty power ?

Keep in mind there are several types of UPSs. The more common and cheaper ones basically just pass the AC through (with maybe a filter and surge suppression). When AC fails, the inverter takes over. But these units typically output a modified square wave which is not always the best thing to use, especially for things like switching power supplies. A step up is a UPS that outputs a pure sine wave when on backup power. Then the 'top of the line' units actually run off of the pure sine wave inverter all of the time, and the house AC just keeps the inverter running and the battery charged. This unit offers the most protection because it pretty much totally isolates the input from the output.
A few mistakes here....
It's output is a MODIFIED SINE WAVE, not a modified square wave. The sine wave is made up of staircased voltage steps....

Switcher type supplies DO NOT CARE what the waveform is, as it simply rectifies the AC and uses it to charge capacitors to supply a high voltage DC to a solid state "Chopper". This drives a Toroidal inductor at a high frequency, supplying one or more LOW voltage HIGH current windings. These feed diodes and filters along with passive regulators...
Switchers DONT CARE about waveform,line frequency,distortion, and are close to immune to "Spikes" and noise.Some switchers will work over a 90-240 volt input!

"Fulltime UPS" run a 400 volt Battery stack. The 120/240 volt SINGLE phase power charges the batteries to 400 volts. This DC potential is converted to true AC sinewave and outputs 120/240 volts single phase. These DO NOT "Switch" and are constant output.In the event the AC mains go down it runs from the battery stack UNTIL THE GEN SET STARTS! They are not designed for long term battery output.

AC Motors WILL OVERHEAT when powered by a modified sine wave inverter!!! E/I/H core transformers will also run hotter, depending on power factor..they to CAN overheat. The reason for this is simply, they are a 60 Cycle RESONANT load. A modified sine wave is NOT a true 60 cycle AC waveform. Inductors exibit a LOW resistance when out of resonance,drawing a large amount of current.....

Kirk
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poppo
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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2011, 02:59:32 AM »

Switcher type supplies DO NOT CARE what the waveform is, as it simply rectifies the AC and uses it to charge capacitors to supply a high voltage DC to a solid state "Chopper". This drives a Toroidal inductor at a high frequency, supplying one or more LOW voltage HIGH current windings. These feed diodes and filters along with passive regulators...
Switchers DONT CARE about waveform,line frequency,distortion, and are close to immune to "Spikes" and noise.Some switchers will work over a 90-240 volt input!

I'll have to disagree with this. I've had several switcher power supplies get pretty hot when running off of a modified sine wave (yes I made a typo) inverter. Some will even buzz with displeasure. You should hear my DLP TVs (switcher power supplies) when in standby when running off of a UPS. They are on a UPS so when power goes out, I can turn it off and let the fan cool the lamp down properly. After that I unplug it. IMO anything that buzzes like a beehive is probably not liking it.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 03:06:16 AM by poppo » Logged
KirkLasVegas
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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2011, 03:03:07 AM »

If you hear an audible "Buzz" then it is NOT a "Switcher".
Switchers run at frequencies way above the hearing range.
If it buzzes and runs hot, it is a LINEAR supply.....

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poppo
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2011, 03:10:29 AM »

If you hear an audible "Buzz" then it is NOT a "Switcher".
Switchers run at frequencies way above the hearing range.
If it buzzes and runs hot, it is a LINEAR supply.....




I know what a switcher is, and I know what buzzing and running hot is. But I'm not going to argue about it.  wave

From Trace (inverter mfg) tech notes:
Quote
Small wall based chargers (called wall warts) will often have overheating problems with modified sine or square wave inputs.

Some computers and stereo equipment use switching power supplies that utilize SCR's and Triacs as well. These pieces or equipment may experience the same troubles in the examples given previously.


http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/Download%20folder/sine_modsine.pdf
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 03:20:43 AM by poppo » Logged
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