Well, they Passed it

[Op-Bell]

There are certainly queues for some services. Ie a 3hr wait in the Emergency room or urgent care if you haven't been brought in by ambulance.
The theory I guess if you were able to walk in your probably not going to kick the bucket in the waiting room.

If you compare that against the US care system - If I didn't call my Primary Care Physican and get told to go to the Hospital (or a call to the HMO under some plans) then you could reasonably be expected not to be covered by insurance.

Only three hours? They have it good up in Canada. I went to the ER once when I was unemployed and uninsured. I waited five hours in the waiting room before I even saw a nurse, then they billed me about $5000, which went to collections because I didn't have any money - I finally paid it when I got a job but it was on my credit report for years.

This last thing just before Christmas, my own doctor sent me down to the ER after the cat scan, even called ahead to pre-admit me. I waited, I think, 9 hours to see a doctor, who did nothing except to refer me to a urologist, which my own doctor had done already. I even had to point out the problem on my copy of the x-rays because he couldn't see it on his own. Then the f*ing co-pays totaled about $500 - with insurance - including $100 to the doctor for his valuable "services". After the co-pays for the surgery I've shelled out about $3000 in the last three months - with insurance. And now I have a pre-existing condition. So I'm quite interested in this reform bill, however flawed it may turn out to be.

The fix I think they should have done is to make all medical expenses tax deductible for individuals. That would at a stroke close the loop between the provider and the consumer, which at the moment is open, because my employer pays the premiums (which are deductible for them), so I have a less than vital interest in what the treatment costs. If I could deduct the cost of my own plan, my employer could give me a $400 a month raise to buy my own and I would shop around. If everyone did it, that should drive down costs through this "free market competition" I keep hearing about (but never see the benefits of). Of course, such a measure wouldn't appeal to the people who pay the congresscritters to look the other way while they rob us blind.

[StatFreak]

...
The fix I think they should have done is to make all medical expenses tax deductible for individuals. That would at a stroke close the loop between the provider and the consumer, which at the moment is open, because my employer pays the premiums (which are deductible for them), so I have a less than vital interest in what the treatment costs. If I could deduct the cost of my own plan, my employer could give me a $400 a month raise to buy my own and I would shop around. If everyone did it, that should drive down costs through this "free market competition" I keep hearing about (but never see the benefits of). Of course, such a measure wouldn't appeal to the people who pay the congresscritters to look the other way while they rob us blind.

That could work, as long as plan providers were not allowed to cherry pick healthy customers as they do now. In my case, for example, I did ask for more money in the form of a higher salary from the small businesses that I worked for to help cover the cost of my HIPAA coverage, but I had no option to shop around at any price point, or to evade the usurious yearly premium increases.

[Thor777]

"They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare....Giving a

distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union,

would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It

would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with

power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States and as they sole judges of

the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please."

-- Thomas Jefferson   

[Op-Bell]

*Yawn* That fight was lost 150 years ago, but at least for some time "general welfare" had some meaning for the average citizen. In more recent years the "general welfare" has come to mean only those with the money and influence to purchase a congressman or senator. If you would like to argue a case for the reduction of corporate welfare, I'm all ears. Extra points if you can get the likes of Limbaugh and Faux News to whip up a tea-party campaign against it also.

[tacman]

*Yawn* as well, sounds like the commentary from CNN, Headline News and scores of other media channel outlets, but lets cry foul with Limbaugh, Hannity and Fox News! What a laugh!

 Dan (tacman)

The bigger problem is the only way they can change the plan before the Sumpremes rule the Health Car "Law" unconstitutional is to change it from mandating citizens from purchasing a product from a private company to getting the single payer and making it a government program, then like Income taxes, Social Security and Medicare, it will be mandatory to participate.

[Op-Bell]

Who cried foul? I certainly didn't. My comment was encouraging, motivated by admiration for their notable success in organizing a grass roots movement. Nearly successful enough to constitute an offense under the Sedition Act! You gotta admire that. It may appear they didn't achieve the aims they set out for, but David Frum (see above) seems to think they got what they really wanted.

Roberts to the rescue? I suppose with this court, anything could happen. Don't you just hate activist judges who legislate from the bench?

[Magicslots]

 The Constitution of the United States lists 17 enumerated powers to the Congress.  Not single D__n one is the power to
control or "take care' of its citizens from cradle to grave!    If you do the research, you will find that more than 98%
of all Federal laws on the books are "Administrative Law" which have occurred thanks to the Congress since the time of FDR!
Congress continually abuses its powers, by couching its efforts as covered by the "General welfare" clause and the "Commerce clause" of the Constitution.
 Repeatedly, for the past 80 years, history shows us that the U.S. economy, and its citizens prosper the most when Congress is in
"gridlock" to use the current phrase, and does little to nothing in the way of legislation!    

[jay]

My 2c on how they should have structured the healthcare bill.....

1. The US Goverment purchases healthcare for its employess - presumeably said employees are in every state.
2. They should eliminate the whole Vetran Hospital system (and verterains administration for healthcare) and simply put those people on the same plan as all federal employees.
- the savings just from the loss of beuarcacy would be huge.
3. Next they should mandate that all state and municipal employees use the federal system
- This again reduces goverment waste from duplicate systems at 3 or 4 levels - just imagine how many different computer programs are used to administer benefits across the country. HUGE.
4. Next they should then move all EI and Welfare recepients onto the federal system.
5. For the seniors and disabled they should eliminate medicare and medicade and subsequent administration of said systems to be on the same system as the rest of the federal employees.

Theoretically now you have the largest single purchaser of healthcare across the board.

This should then be opened to all businesses to purchase healthcare at the same $$ that the US goverment purchases healthcare.

The plan here keeps medical insurance private. As everyone knows that anything the gpverment touches becomes bloated and expensive.

If the insurance cost is not at a reasonable level because all of the other insurance companies must now compete with the rate that the federal goverment purchases insurance. The goverment could then reform this from a for-profit insurance program into a not-for-profit and go with a fixed fee arangement to provide health care services.

[brichter]

There's only one problem with that, Jay.

The insurance companies paid the politicians too much money to let that happen.