809 Hopper cycles for 1-2 seconds after first reels stops

[Amachanic]

I've been working on a Bally 809 the past few daysi.. I've brought it back to life. It's working great with the exception that the hopper wants to cycle for 1-2 seconds after the first reel stops. Now it doesn't do it every time or the same reels location? It doesn't pay out any coin. It does pay correctly on all jackpots except 200 coin, shorts me 4 coins. That's an easy fix, my concern is the hopper cycling.. The first reel wiper contacts look to be adjusted correctly. The 831 machine I just picked up is doing the same thing? Is this common on the 800 series Bally's? Where's OldReno when you need him...      I have a picture of the 831, I'll post a pic of the 809 in a bit.

Thanks Gary

[David B Fowler]

I am only giving you a guess but Old Reno would be your best bet. It is sounding that you have a make and break switch that is supposed to break connection with the hopper before it makes contact an the other part of the switch. It could be so close that it keeps a connection too long and then finally opens. So I would look at those type of switches and see if any are set too close. Only a guess on my part.... havnt had that issue before but would like to have the correct info in case I do.
The Fatman ... 85lbs liighter.
 

[Amachanic]

Hey Fatman.. Glad to hear you doing well.. Congrats on the weight loss    Here's a picture of my 809 that has the problem.. It can go 10 to 15 plays between hopper cycles, then do it 2 or 3 times in a row? It never dispenses any coins when it does this.. I've worked on my share of EM machines and never had another one have this problem. Now I pick up an 809 and an 831 and they both do the same thing     I've never worked on an 809 or 831 before, that's why I'm wondering if it was a common problem with these models?

Gary

[David B Fowler]

Does the hopper cycle when there is a winning combination only, or will it sometimes cycle when the is not a payout due. I have both machines and have never experienced that problem. If I remember right there is a relay at the top back of the hopper that operates an arm that when energized, pulls an arm in that does not allow coins to exit the hopper, just falls back into the bowl of the hopper. Now I still feel that Old Reno will be your best bet on the definitive answer to this problem. I dont have a great deal of time with these machines, but I do have a strong background in EM machines.  I really am looking forward to the solution to it.
Dave 

[Amachanic]

No it just briefly cycle when the first reel stop, like 1-2 seconds never paying out coin when it does this. It does pay out all jackpot combinations correctly except the 200 coin. I just need to make a minor adj to that jackpot wiper.

Gary

[David B Fowler]

Have you checked the position of the wheels at the deepest  cut on the index disc? I would look at them just to make sure thereels are being registered correctly on the wiper boards. At the deepest cuts, if I am not mistaken all three wiper arms should be on the last set of buttons on the boards. I always check this first when I get a machine because the very first machine I got, I spent a few days chasing what I thought was a very deep problem, only to find out all it was, was off the buttons on the second reel. I got them all set a and it has worked like a champ ever since.
Dave 

[Amachanic]

Have you checked the position of the wheels at the deepest  cut on the index disc? I would look at them just to make sure thereels are being registered correctly on the wiper boards. At the deepest cuts, if I am not mistaken all three wiper arms should be on the last set of buttons on the boards. I always check this first when I get a machine because the very first machine I got, I spent a few days chasing what I thought was a very deep problem, only to find out all it was, was off the buttons on the second reel. I got them all set a and it has worked like a champ ever since.
Dave 

Dave,  I've already checked the reels wipers positions. Cleaned and applied some contact grease.

Gary

[David B Fowler]

It is a strange intermittent problem and I hate those more than anything. I will continue to watch and scratch my head until a solution arises.
Dave

[jim k-falls]

Im a newbie, and i could be wrong, but i think its your mixer relay..keeps the coins from piling up in the hopper..f you reach in the little square opening in front of your hopper and press down on that relay, does it cycle your hopper?.jim K-falls

[Amachanic]

Im a newbie, and i could be wrong, but i think its your mixer relay..keeps the coins from piling up in the hopper..f you reach in the little square opening in front of your hopper and press down on that relay, does it cycle your hopper?.jim K-falls

I had considered something like a mixer relay, but there is no pattern to when it cycles? I thought maybe something to do with the top boxes circuits? I'm going to see if I have an extention cable that I can hook between my reels assembly and cabinet. That way I can pull it out and cycle the reels and watch the other contacts. I know I don't have an extention cable to pull the hopper. That thing has a 30 pin Beau plug..  OldReno where are you? I need your years of experiance with this one..  

Gary

[jim k-falls]

It will be interesting to hear what old reno has on this..my 989 machine does it also..i read up on it and it seems to be triggered by the "b" switches..my 922 machine has the same looking relay under the hopper, but doesnt cycle ..from what the manuals tell me, its a delay relay on this machine..

[OldReno]

Especially on low hit frequency machines, the hopper will cycle on certain combinations to keep the coins mixed in the hopper bowl.
Fruit reel machines don't need that, since they often hit cherries which will mix up the coins, but JPO machines often do have a  mix circuit.

Does your hopper have a scavenger coil, I'm thinking it does, otherwise coins would be coming out when it mixes. Coins exit only if the scavenger is energised, otherwise they fall back into the hopper bowl.
Look at your first reel wiper, and see if there appears to be a separate circuit other than a pay circuit wired onto your 1st reel board.  Probably the lowest 2 fingers used.
Also you could note down what combinations (probably on the 1st reel) make the hopper mix.
When you get the mix, push back on your timing bar (variator above the fan) to see if it engages the mix again. 

[David B Fowler]

I am always learning new things from you Old Reno ....  I am looking forward to further advance my knowledge base.
dave

[Amachanic]

Especially on low hit frequency machines, the hopper will cycle on certain combinations to keep the coins mixed in the hopper bowl.
Fruit reel machines don't need that, since they often hit cherries which will mix up the coins, but JPO machines often do have a  mix circuit.

Does your hopper have a scavenger coil, I'm thinking it does, otherwise coins would be coming out when it mixes. Coins exit only if the scavenger is energised, otherwise they fall back into the hopper bowl.
Look at your first reel wiper, and see if there appears to be a separate circuit other than a pay circuit wired onto your 1st reel board.  Probably the lowest 2 fingers used.
Also you could note down what combinations (probably on the 1st reel) make the hopper mix.
When you get the mix, push back on your timing bar (variator above the fan) to see if it engages the mix again. 

Thanks for the advice, I do believe these are JPO Machines. The 809 has for symbols, Bar / Bar5 / 7 only. The 831 has for symbols, Oranges / Watermelons / 7..  The other older EM machines I've owned have been Fruit machines.. These hoppers both do have the scavenger coil setup to prevent the coins from being paid when the hopper mixes.. I will have to pull the reels to look for the separate circuit one the first reel wiper.. I will try to make a list of where the first reel stop when the hopper stirs...  Thanks for the information OldReno...

Gary

[Amachanic]

Especially on low hit frequency machines, the hopper will cycle on certain combinations to keep the coins mixed in the hopper bowl.
Fruit reel machines don't need that, since they often hit cherries which will mix up the coins, but JPO machines often do have a  mix circuit.

Does your hopper have a scavenger coil, I'm thinking it does, otherwise coins would be coming out when it mixes. Coins exit only if the scavenger is energised, otherwise they fall back into the hopper bowl.
Look at your first reel wiper, and see if there appears to be a separate circuit other than a pay circuit wired onto your 1st reel board.  Probably the lowest 2 fingers used.
Also you could note down what combinations (probably on the 1st reel) make the hopper mix.
When you get the mix, push back on your timing bar (variator above the fan) to see if it engages the mix again. 

Thanks for the advice, I do believe these are JPO Machines. The 809 has for symbols, Bar / Bar5 / 7 only. The 831 has for symbols, Oranges / Watermelons / 7..  The other older EM machines I've owned have been Fruit machines.. These hoppers both do have the scavenger coil setup to prevent the coins from being paid when the hopper mixes.. I will have to pull the reels to look for the separate circuit one the first reel wiper.. I will try to make a list of where the first reel stop when the hopper stirs...  Thanks for the information OldReno...

Gary

Ok here's what I've found and figured out... This machine does have 4-5 positions on the first reel where if the reel stops will stir the hopper. They are all on a non winning stops, and on the deepest slot on the of the cam.. If you do push on the timing bar as OldReno said, it does cause the hopper to stir.. So this is a normal feature of these two slot machines... OldReno thanks for the advice...

Gary