Bally Classic 5 Liner HELP!!!

[mantaramian]

I picked up a Bally Classic Five Liner with a couple problems and cant seem to get them resolved, I have searched and searched with little success.

1st. The payout is either too much or too little, I have adjusted the zero stop several times and cant seem to get it right. For example the single cherry will pay 4 (should pay 2) and the 3 plums will pay 15 (should pay 20)

2nd. The coin steppers doesn't seem to count correctly, it  will start as two coins dropped 99% of the time and once in a while the count will be accurate.

What is my problem

Pics are included......

[mantaramian]

More Pics

[mantaramian]

More

[mantaramian]

More

[mantaramian]

The last one for now

[David B Fowler]

Watch the white 100 tooth gear (your pic 09) on your back side of the hoppers payout board to make sure it advances properly. You can activate the mech by hand to see. That can cause improper payouts if it doesnt advance properly. Check the linkage that moves it as well. It also can be old grease on the shaft that goes thru the board. causing it to drag and not advance properly. After you advance the disk about 10 times, check the reset coil to make sure the wiper board returns quickly and all the way.
Its a start...
Dave

[David B Fowler]

Just noticed in pic 03 that the stop switch is out of position. The top blade should be under the white post so it presses down on the blade when it is reset. This can be part of the problem.
Dave

[mantaramian]

Thank you. I'll post what the results are.

[OldReno]

Pic 3 shows you're missing your zero stop assembly, the little pencil eraser guy that lets your payboard spiral cam return to its right place.  Replace that and you should be ok.
Page 107 of your bally manual, part #91, 92, 93

GREAT PICS btw, thank you!!!

[David B Fowler]

Oldreno is spot on. Dont know how I missed it. Too busy looking at the out of place switch and scratching my head I guess. 
Dave

[OldReno]

And by the way, folks, the switch is only a by-function of the zero stop assembly.  The ZS's major purpose is to allow you to adjust the fingers on your spiral cam, in relation to your 100 tooth gear, and your pay segments.  After you adjust the fingers to zero, THEN you adjust that switch... 
And the ONLY purpose of that switch is to activate your payboard reset coil. That's all it does.

[RiseLikeRa]

Seems Old Reno has young eyes.  The bracket that holds the zero stop is MIA also. This is where a good parts hopper would come in handy.  Perhaps Barry Fox may have one available.

Ra

[OldReno]

You might be able to machine or drill something (like an old penny) to act as a crude stop.  If it were drilled offset you could then adjust it then tighten it down.  You do have an insulated plastic piece there which would let you not worry about electrical transfer to the switch or grounding it.  The original zero stop was an offset rubber bumper, which you had to put your thumbnail on to tighten it down.  But the whole assembly then was metal. The newer style is the pencil eraser type and with the plastic 'L' bracket.  In lieu of an old hopper, we have to learn to improvise.  Yes I know it is illegal to deface a penny, but anything of that size and shape could work as a zero stop mechanism.  Being offset lets you adjust with fairly fine precision.  Yep, that's what I'd do. But then I don't care about bringing it back to 'factory' specs.

[Amachanic]

OldReno I totally agree.. Just because you don't have the proper part doesn't meen it can't work. In that pic 3 I see one screw for the zero stops still there. It could still be there just swug to one side? It possible it just laying in the bottom the slot machine too.

Gary

[mantaramian]

Again I would like to thank all for the valuable input.....

Here are some pictures with the zero stop installed and at home position

[mantaramian]

This picture shows the position after a 2 coin pay.....

[Amachanic]

Has reinstalling the zero stop bumper corrected you scoring problems? Where was it found?

Gary

[mantaramian]

Has reinstalling the zero stop bumper corrected you scoring problems? Where was it found?

Gary

No the problem is still the same, The pay on a win is either too short or too much

I had the zero stop the whole time. The rubber was so gooey it would stick so took it out and glued a pencil eraser on it. I forgot to install it before I took the pictures and posted the questions.

[David B Fowler]

Undo the arm from the counter assembly at the top of the hopper. Take out the top screw on the board bracket and tip the board down so you can easily access the coils on the back side. Activate the advance coil by hand and watch the white 100 tooth gear move. Is it moving one tooth every time? . You have a mechanical counter on the hopper so make sure it activates correctly when a coin is passed under it. We can go fromn there if that doesnt show you a problem.

[mantaramian]

Undo the arm from the counter assembly at the top of the hopper. Take out the top screw on the board bracket and tip the board down so you can easily access the coils on the back side. Activate the advance coil by hand and watch the white 100 tooth gear move. Is it moving one tooth every time? . You have a mechanical counter on the hopper so make sure it activates correctly when a coin is passed under it. We can go fromn there if that doesnt show you a problem.

Will do, I'm trying to work a 1/2 day to tackle this issue....

[mantaramian]

Undo the arm from the counter assembly at the top of the hopper. Take out the top screw on the board bracket and tip the board down so you can easily access the coils on the back side. Activate the advance coil by hand and watch the white 100 tooth gear move. Is it moving one tooth every time? . You have a mechanical counter on the hopper so make sure it activates correctly when a coin is passed under it. We can go fromn there if that doesnt show you a problem.

Should the micro switch rest in a Crevasse on the white gear in the home position? Currently it is between the Crevasse and the top side of the gear

[David B Fowler]

That will have to be an Oldreno question. My models are older and dont have the extra disk. Dont even want to guess what it is for either, cause I would probably be wrong. 
Dave

[Amachanic]

From what I know is that the switch resets the relay controlling large payouts so the machine doesn't time out. I don't think it has any thing to do with your problem.. I would watch the operation of the 100 tooth gear. Does it advance one click per coin paid, then does it always return to the stop when reset? Being a multi-line machine is it just one line that's paying incorrect or on every line?

Gary

[OldReno]

Gary is correct.  That switch regulates the safety timer motor which, if unstopped, will time out the machine, and stop the pay, and black it out turning on the red pilot neon light.  I don't think it matters a whit whether it is in the notch to start, or not.  If the switch does not change state within 5 steps of the payboard, then the machine is malfunctioning, and needs to time out to stop the potential runaway hopper.  Usually these types of 100 tooth gear added extensions are used on single line machines with X-units.  These X units are vulnerable to running away, so this system is designed to stop that in short order.  Usually the safety timer motor 'time' is set very low (15 seconds?), unlike the timer settings for standard machines which may be 45-60-90 seconds or more.  You don't want an X unit to run away for 45 seconds, so this is Bally's fix AFAIK.  But I could be wrong.
Montaramian, you take the best pictures....THX.

AFA the original problem, what does your payboard show after these mispays?  The first thing to do in the event of a mispay is to check the fingers on your payboard to see where they are.. 
Another thing to check is the tension of the spiral spring on your 100 tooth paygear.  If it is too loose, the machine may double step and short pay you.  I've got a post on that on the old reno trouble shooting tips somewhere.

[Amachanic]

Safety timer..  I could not think if the proper name    thanks OldReno..  Funny you mention the tension of the spiral spring, because I noticed in post #20's pic that it seem to me that the spring could be loose by how it mounted to the black mounting stud on the long slotted end of the spring. That's why I asked is it returning all the way back to zero.. Just didn't look right, but it could be..

Gary