New Life Games Tech Forums

Hi,

Anyone know which this is?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300300025144 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300300025144)

Also, do you think there are progressive displays behind those two jackpot windows in the top glass, and is that likely to be one of those scrolling displays under the reels?

Finally an IGT not located too far away from me, any advice greatly appreciated.

Paul

I think it's an M slot, but wait for the others to confirm.

I believe all the games with the window just below the reels in the center are M slots. Although a rare 4 reeler for sure. Those are displays in the top, just stickers it looks like. May have been hooked up to a Mikohn like system for the 2 jackpots, may be the reason it's not working.

The only way to really know is to peek inside!  It could be a M or a M+,  The M machines had the card cage located above the reels, it contained the main CPU logic board and the sound board.   The M+  machine had the logic board located under the reels and to the left. It also had a removable logic board assembly similar to the S+.  Both used the Reel  LED  display , some of the later M+ machines used the right mounted display . The same one used on a S machine.

Jim

Thanks guys.

I've asked for some pics of the inside. I'll post back when/if I get them.

Cheers

Paul

Frank A had one with one of those displays that he said was a S or S+ -- see this post (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=940.0).

My guess for the progressives is that it may have used the IGT mini-photon stand-alone progressives (a dual meter setup) and the little displays would go in those windows on the glass (hence the red tint in the windows, too).  The displays/controller have probably been removed from the machine, and someone printed those little inserts and taped them to the glass.

If you get the machine, and it's an S+, and you get the game up and running, it would be possible to purchase the stand-alone progressives and get them installed.

Edit: Here's another old post (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=189.msg1734#msg1734) of someone with two machines with that LED display below the reels, and they were S+ games.

Hera are some pics, don't let the center Dot Display set the game type, they are common in Europe from US Military bases, 10 coin games needed these, but can run others and the M used it as a display, my money is the game being asked about is a Early M+, if S it would have a display to right of reels, I have put pics of a M Slot up as well as Dual Level IGT Progressive in an S Slot (Not S Plus) as well as a S+ like Frank A's with the center Display the game Pictured has the Huge IGT Progressive top unit in it (Boat Anchor) as well as a 4 Reel IGT Dual Level Display

Dual Level and S+ with Dot Display

Aah, Jim is totally right about the LED displays to the right of the reels -- the ones that I linked to had them, the one in question in this thread does not.

Well I've got some more pics, still trying to get one of the inside of the top box to see what's in there. But going by Jim's description, this looks to be an M+.

Are parts availalble for this? I like the machine and would go to about $180 or is this too much for it, I haven't seen one on ebay to have an idea?

more...

last.....

There is a grey wire that looks to behanging loose near the coin mech, could this be the problem with not accepting tokens?

LOOKS LIKE A BLACK AND PURPLE BROKE OFF FROM THE COMPARITOR. THAT WOULD KEEP IT FROM WORKING.

THERE SHOULD BE 6 CONNECTIONS ON THE HARNESS-

#1&3 JUMPED WITH YELLOW WIRE
#2 PURPLE
#4 YELLOW
#5 BLANK
#6 BLACK

Slottex,

Which harness are you looking at, too the right of the coin or underneath?

UNDER THE COIN BOTTOM LEFT OF THE COMPARITOR.

Thanks Slottex, I see it now. Seems an easy fix on that if thats all it is.

Not sure about the rest of the issues!

Can I expect the usual 'plincky plincky' random sounds I've heard on the S+ when the reels spin?

Paul

Topbox pic.

I assume the white bar hanging down on the right would be were the progressive meter would go?

Does anyone know if parts (PCB, Motherboard and progressives etc..) are still available for these machine. I'm getting desperate to get a reel slot now, but don't want to buy a lemon!!

Thanks

Paul

Hi,

Well I managed to get my hands on this machine and it looks great, but I think there are a few things that may be wrong with it.

First I'm getting a battery error, I'm going to get that replaced on the PCB, can anyone confirm if it is the usual 3.6v job?

Also, in the picture coin1.jpg in a previous post, there is a diode with a broken leg at position 'CR1'. Is this normal?

I hope you can help.

Paul

Paul   Parts may be hard to come by,  IGT's  slot history is: M,  M+ , S , S+ ,S2k, I-game etc.  so That should give you some idea where you stand as for availability of parts.  The battery is 3.6 volt,  the diode being cut was a modification by home market so you could use something other than a coin comparator. The wire being broken is probably the cause of the coin rejection, you can bypass this by shimming the coil on the back of the comparator out so the "rake" is out of the coins path.

Common problem with units were the mechanical spin start, and recycle part on the front of the reel kicker. They unlatch and pull straight out, you will see the round cork like wheel ,these dry out and shatter, none available to my knowledge. I have used bearings of the same size and they work.

The other problem is the ribbon cable soldered to the connector on the reel kicker, many intermittent problems, have seen most of them hardwired,point to point.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear ,and again its only one person's opinion, will give you all the help I can.

Jim,

Many thanks for the reply, in order:


Thank you for the confirmation, I've got one of those, so I just need to solder it on and then see what other errors I get.


First, does this mean I can leave it cut and the comparitor will work like normal or do I need to fix it? Second, what else would have been used and how does cutting this enable them to use something else?


The wires have now been fixed so hopefully I'm OK on this part, which is good because I don't understand the shimming or rake part :-)



I'l' have to look into these to see what they are like, I guess I'll know if the reels don't spin or stop?


To be honest I was expecting problems as it was descirbed as not working, but I got it for half the asking price and it was local to me so I thought it was worth punt, any american IGT doesn't come up often on ebay so I as getting desparate!

Thanks again Jim, and I will take you up on your offer of help I'm sure.

Is there any documentation available for the M+?

Paul

Paul    haven't had any luck trying to cut and paste and use  quote item!!! :103- :103-

Yes it will work with the diode cut.  The coin comparator and the ABC optics board communicated in some way and all this did was to disable that circuit.

Usually they put a plastic IMONEX acceptor in its place. this acceptor is a plastic molded acceptor with no moving parts. comes in various sizes,e.g.  quarter only, token only, different size tokens, etc.  the most common used was American quarter thru .984 token. therefore you could use tokens or quarters and not have to change anything.(sample coin in comparator) these were widely used in home sales for S+'s when coin comp. were had to come by.

Shimming and rake item!!!    on the back side of your coin comparator, there is a coil, it has two gray wires going to it. the coil consists of two parts, the coil itself and the actuator arm ( I call it the rake).  In the idle mode ( no coin coming in)  the coil is de-energized and the arm is sticking into the body of the coin comp.  if a different coin other than the sample comes in , that coin hits that part of the arm and is rejected and sent back to the coin tray. If how ever the coin is like the sample the the coil is energized and the arm is pulled out and the coin is accepted. so by shimming that arm so it is out all the time, then the coin comp. will pass every quarter put in to it.  this is used as a temporary solution  to test with or to play the machine if your comparator is not working and you are waiting on a replacement. You can see the relationship of the two items by pushing the top part of the arm with your finger and then releasing it.(its spring loaded so it will return by itself)

Have the complete service manual  two complete  binders , so once we see what works then we address each issue 


Jim     

Thanks for the explanation of shimming  :3-

I've put the battery in (first time of soldered something correctly!!).

I got the CMOS error I was expecting and pressed the white self test button for three seconds.

Now when I put on the power, I get a zero on the display and the sound of a motor somewhere in the reel assembly for about 2 seconds and then the word 'MOTOR' appears on the display and all goes quiet.

The motor sounds like its turning, so is this complaining because its jammed/seized or other?

Thanks.

Paul

THE MOTOR TURNS A bar via a rubber belt, on the bar are four cams, which correspond to the four reel assemblies. it is these cams that come in contact with the cork wheels I was telling you about. this resets the reel kickers from the previous spin.

you can remove the whole reel assembly  and inspect all of that : I think you can even turn the motor by hand and observe what happens.

Jim

Here are some pics.

Thanks guys.

I can see the rod turning like a camshaft when I put the power on.

When I took the reels out, I can't turn the motor by hand, but I can see the cork, although they are white plastic on mine, that the bits shown in the picture must push to reset the wheel kickers.

I put the unit back in with the reels out and can see the shaft clearly now as it turns. It rotates twice and resets all four kickers before stopping and the motor warning coming up. It all looks good as far as what it is supposed to do.

What could this error be?

Broken flag or dirty optic (by the belt pulley)

By 'flag' do you mean the peice of plastic attached to the wheel that passes through the plastic gate (optic?) you can see on the right hand side of the last picture? If so, then I have one of those which passes clearly through. Should there be more of these or only one?

Is that gate the optic? If it is I've cleaned it with a cotton bud squashed to fit with a bit of water on. Not a lot of dirt came off and I'm still getting the Motor error.

The motor and shaft are turning freely when I turn the machine on and if I go into the outputs test mode and select motor from there. Any further advice?

Thanks.

Paul    have you removed the reel kickers and examined them?  I know you said that the shaft comes around and resets them, but could you take one out and manually kick off and lock up the  reel, just so you can see what is supposed to happen in the machine.

to accomplish this : unlatch the kicker, small handle on right side of unit, pull straight back and up.  then you can push down on the soleniod and watch the linkage do its thing, the first soleniod kicks off the reel, and the second one pushes the top part into the spokes to stop the wheel. do this a few times and you will see what I am describing.

Then re-install the kicker, and set all four of them off, so that the motor and cam should reset them.

Can you get into the individual tests?  I think each time you press the self test switch a new series of tests will be displayed,then if you use the reset key you can scroll thru the tests and select the one you want and press the spin button to activate it. you can test all the optics and features of the reel mechanism.

Jim


PS. yes that is the flag Blueridge was refering too!!

Hi Jim,

I've no managed to find the handle you are talking about.

But I have taken off the reels to get a good look at the mechanics of this.

From what I can see, this is a three stage operation

• solenoid 1 fires to start the reels by forcing the lever down quickly
• cam shaft spins to lift the lever back up
• solenoid 2 fires to lift the top part of the lever up into the cog to stop the reel

I set the reels up so they were all locked and then put the whole unit back in the machine.

I can access the menus you describe, so I went to 'START 1' pressed the button and reel one spins, same again for reel 2 etc..

Then I get to motor in the menu and have to press the button a couple of time to get all the levers back up, then the menu takes me to the stop reel 1, 2 etc.. I hope that all makes sense?

This all works perfectly, except sometimes the reels won't spin because the cams are stopped in the wrong place and the levers can't drop. Also, if I don't press the motor test a few times then the reels won't stop as the levers haven't been lifted.

Does this indicate that perhaps my cam shaft or flag is out of position and the cam isn't stopping in the right place?

Paul

Is the brake spring broken on the motor to spin the belt, this is the same thing as on a hopper motor for IGT ac motors

Having looked at it some more, I don't think its the flag in the wrong place.

Am I correct in saying that the cam shaft should ALWAYS stop with the flag inbetween the optic?

I've just looked and found the brake spring around the back of the motor. There is a small red arm around there that lifts out of the way and allows the motor to turn. I hadn't seen it before. This is moving and stopping the motor. If I lift the arm by hand I can then turn the cam shaft by hand, it was this which was stopping me from moving it before by hand.

I assume we can cross that off the list?

ON THE REEL MECH.  there is a red block with 5 posts on it. check the wiring to this make sure all the connections are good. this is a solid state relay, this controls the on/off routine of the motor.  there should be another one in the bottom of the machine near and close to the hopper. they should be interchangable. make sure you make a small wiring diagram before removing the wires. you should be able to sub this one for the one on the reel assembly  and eliminate it as the problem or the fix!

Jim

Thanks Jim(s),

The is a black cover behind the hopper covering the power supply and underneath that is a red box with 5 posts as you describe, but on the reel mech, the equivalent box is black with only 4 posts on it. I checked all the fittings and they are all making good connections.

Given the different number of posts I'm not sure about changing it.

Paul   have you tried to put everything back togetherand close the door and see if the error has cleared??  the relays are not interchangeable,  the reel assembly relay has 4 posts on it #1has 115vac to it, #2puts that 115vac to the motor when the relay is turned on. Post #3 gets a signal from the board to activiate the relay, #4 has a ground from the board . 

Every time you are in the test menu, and you have the motor option selected, the relay should close and start the motor.the motor should turn until the flag blocks the optics on the motor and then it should stop. And stop right now! no drifting allowed, thats the purpose of the brake, it lets that red cam to engage with the motor armature and stop it without drifting. If that brake assembly isn't working properly then it could be causing the problem.  there should be a pivot arm attached to one end of the motor screws, you can push it with your finger and watch the interaction of it in relationship to the red cam and spring assembly. every time you push it it should spring back immediatelty, no sticking or sluggish allowed.

the picture #97 shows the handle on the right side,
the picture#96 shows the cork wheel that is on the end of the reel kickers,the one on the right is full size, the one on the left is the plastic core left after the cork material is destroyed.

Running out of things to suggest.        Jim

Jim,

Thanks for the pic of the kicker, now I see what you mean by the handle, I had wondered what that was for but hadn't pulled it hard enough.

Picture attached of the whole unit and the white plastic bit which I think is replacing your cork part. There is no way that mine has room to be as wide a piece of cork to fit on the unit, could this piece design have changed at some point?

That flag is not stopping inbetween the optics unless by chance on the odd occassion and when it does I still get the motor error.

I've attached a youtube pic link to a couple of videos of what the camshaft is doing and the flag, although the flag is not easy to see.

On the camshaft video, I turn th machine on three times and you can see on the third time that the camshaft on reel 4 stops underneath the plastic wheel thereby stopping the kicker from moving down if a game was actually initiated.

It looks to me like my problem is getting this camshaft/flag to stop in the right place. Could this be down to the optic?

Now I know how to take the kickers out, I've unscrewed the optic and it looks like just a piece of plastic, no optic lens like I was expecting. Is this an electric field that is being broken by the flag?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JcQ3mKiQQQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JcQ3mKiQQQ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5YTNToBdS4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5YTNToBdS4)

Thanks for all your help.

Hi,

I just turned this on and instead of getting the MOTOR message, the screen showed this: "EXTRA     1" followed by "1       0" and then it alternated between the two.

This was with the door open and then when I shut the door the motor span and I got the 'MOTOR' error again.

What is this EXTRA message? Is this light at the end of the tunnel or is that just someone with a torch bringing more problems?

*** UPDATE ***

I left the machine turned on for an hour or so and let it warm up. When I went back to it, it now stops the motor where it should and I don't get the motor warning anymore. Unless I turn the machine off. When I then turn it back on again the Motor message comes back, but I can clear it by firing a MOTOR action in the test menu and that resets to stopping in the correct place.

When I close the door, the display shows '0', the cam turns once and then all four reels are spun. They are not stopped however until they have slowed down by themselves at which point I get an error 'DECEL 3' or whatever number reel slowed down first. I assume this means 'decelerated' as I can with the door open force a 'TOO SLOW' or 'BACKWARD' error.

When in the test mode, all reels fire and stop as they should when selected.

I'll leave it turned on for a while longer to see if anything else warms up.

Hi again,

Since my last post, I left the machine on for a longer period of time, about 2 hours, when I returned to it nothing else had changed.

I turned the machine off and then back on again and discovered that now the motor did nothing at all. The only thing that happens is the flourecents come on. The candle doesn't light, the scrolling LED display doesn't show anything, nothing!

Jim suggested I check all the fuses which I've done, well the three I can find, and they all check good with a meter.

I've unplugged and reseated every wire and chip I can find but still nothing.

I'm wondering now if I've got a bad PCB.

Anyone have any thoughts, and do any of you vendors our there have an M+ board for sale?

Thanks in advance.

Paul

Does anyone have a IGT M slot manual?

I went on a service call today for a Bally E Series machine.
After I fixed that one he had a IGT M that was dead. It would only read "Tilt Call Attendant"
He asked if I would look at it. Naturally I couldn't resist since I have never worked on a M series machine.  :25-

I checked the battery voltage and it was DEAD. Absolutely nothing.
I replaced the battery, but not knowing if I would need a set chip like the S+ machines use. Well no luck. The machine still reads Tilt call attendant.
I went thru the menu options and could not find a manual reset or anything in the menu.

I did get the machine to attempt to reset and the reel motor would run. The cork? material on the reel levers is completely gone. I do see where others have replaced these with nylon washers, so I need to get that done.

How do you clear error messages from the machine. If you open and close the door after corrections should the error go away? Or is their a reset?
Do you need a set chip like the S+ ?
Anybody have a manual? I think that would clear up a lot of questions.
I attached a few pics.

And a few more.

did you turn the keyswitch on the right side of the machine?  If I recall correctly, it turns backwards or forwards, there may be two there, my memory is a little fuzzy today.

Thanks,
Wayne

Wayne, Your correct. The key turns forward and backwards.
Doing that I could only get menu pages. Forward to select menu pages and backwards to select options within that page.

This is where the manual would help.  :5-

were there two switches?

Neon,

Let me know if you get a copy of the manual, I've been looking for a couple of months with no luck.  I had a similar sounding problem with mine, "tilt call attendant" that wouldn't clear.  Opening and closing the door should reset that message.  My problem ended up being a bad door optic connection on a molex connector on the inside of the door.  Here's a photo of where my problem was.  It sounds like the MPU isn't seeing the door open and close.  There's a input switch diagnostic test that you should be able to get to from the JP reset keyswitch menus, I can try to figure out how to get to it on mine again if you need me to.  When you get to the door test it will have a 0 or 1 that should toggle when the door is opened and closed.

My reel kickers cork rollers were shot too.  I couldn't find any nylon rollers to replace them with.  I ended up putting ball bearing in their place.  They are 1/4" X 3/4" X 1/4" and the only place I found them was a company called mscdirect.com.   Item #  01376748.  It cost about $10.00 + shipping for all three. 

Good luck!

(http://) 

And here's a picture of the reel kicker bearings installed.

(http://)

Thanks Tilt.  :3-

The cam followers are completely gone. I would assume without them the reels do-not reset. So until I fix that I wont know where I'm at with the Cmos error.

I'll keep you guy's posted as to what I find out.
I can tell you this, It won't get fixed as a service call in the owners home. I'm going to have to bring this one into the shop.

Hi,

Good luck with the fix.

I could really do with  a copy of a manual for the M+ too if anyone has one  :89-

I used bally hopper roller bearings as a replacement - they worked out okay.

I'm not familiar with Bally hopper bearings, but I'm glad they worked out for you.  I guess they're probably about the size then. 

I had some time to take a look at mine again Neon, and the self tests are not initiated by the JP keyswitch, but by the test/advance buttons on the left side of the machine under the fuses.  If you push the self test button, the first test is the input test.  Use the advance button until you get to the door test.  When the door is open it will indicate it by a 1 and closed is a 0.  Hope this helps and good luck!

(http://)

(http://)

Eventually I'll figure out how to post two pictures in the same message, until then, here's the second picture that shows the location of the switches.

(http://)

To the right of the "Browse" button is an underlined link labeled "(more attachments)". Click that to reveal a second textbox and "browse" button. One used to be able to repeat this process until 10 textboxes were displayed, but we had to restrict the limit to two after bugs were discovered in the software.