New Life Games Tech Forums

I am new to this board and slot repairs. I am getting a Tilt dot fail message on the front. Can anyone help with that error? Also all the LED lights on the CPU board are on.
Thanks.

Need a bit more info... When you say all the lights are lit ; is that all 5 to the right of the board   What about the one on the left side of the board ?  When you turn the machine on; do you get any bongs ?  When turning on; what happens ?  does anything light up ?  What does the dot display do ?   etc...    Bill

Dot Fail is ususally because of a fried upper (Dotmation) power supply.  Pretty common on these machines.  Does your Dotmation screen come on at all when you turn the machine on?  If not, it's VERY likely that power supply needs to be replaced.  See this thread for more information:

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=90.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=90.0)

Kevin is correct... Only other possibility is to make sure both boards are seated firmly and it's also possible that one of the chips in the dotmation box went bad.... Bill

Hi,
Thanks for the help efforts. Yes all 6 lights are on and when I turn the unit on it bongs and initializes and then bongs again with another initialization. It will work for a while (maybe 1/2 hour then will have the dot fail message. I should mention that I replaced the voltage regulator (inside the power supply) about 1 1/2 months ago. My Mom has played this machine a lot since then. We always leave it on since the guy that sold it to her said its better for the power supply. Thanks again.

Forgot to mention the Dotmation screen is working.

That's interesting.  The screen is working and still on even when the DOT FAIL message appears?

If so, it's possible that there's an intermittent data connection between the base of the machine and the Dotmation box.  Go ahead and turn the power off, and then carefully remove the top glass from the machine.  Now, loosen the small bolts on the top of the Dotmation box just enough that you can slide the display off, and slide the Dotmation display to the side to remove it from its enclosure.  You may want to have a second person with you to help with this since you're going to be juggling fragile stuff.  Now, carefully unplug the ribbon cable that connects the circuit board in the Dotmation box to the bottom of the machine, and then re-connect it right back where it was (we're simply re-seating the connection in case it's not connecting well).  Put the Dotmation display back in its place and tighten the bolts.  Now, follow that cable out of the back of the Dotmation box and find where it connects to the fixed motherboard/backplane in the back of the machine.  Carefully remove and re-seat that connection as well.  Now, try the machine again and see if that made a difference.

Hi, OK just did as you suggested. Same thing happened after about 5-10 minutes of play.

Might be a lower power supply with an intermittent problem.......

Is there anyway to diagnose the power supply issue? I know its not the voltage regulator since I replaced that with a brand new one.
So a few more questions......
 1 Are the two initializations normal?
2 Is it normal to have the left Led lit on the cpu board
3 I see reference to an upper and lower Power supply. Could you tell me where the upper supply is located?
Thanks again for everyone's help.

Dot Fail usually is a power supply issue along with the left light on. That light should be off if its running normal. The Upper power supply is inside the Dot Box. If the Dot screen is working I might be leaning towards the lower supply. This is why you need another 40x to swap out parts to help diagnose, lol.

Hello again, so I finally had time to pull out the upper power supply and sure enough its burnt. So any ideas where I can get another one?
Thanks

It being discolored doesn't mean that it's shot.  If your Dotmation screen is working even when you get the Dot Fail message, I wouldn't immediately suspect that power supply.  If the Dotmation screen is going out and the error appears, then yes, it could be that power supply.

According to the information you've given us, the screen is working at all times, correct?

Yes, it is strange that the Dotmation screen is still on but look at the pictures. Not sure what the white block things are but they appear burned at the bottom and the capacitor looks like its bulging?

The white towers always look like that....

I agree that the capacitor appears to be bulging a little, and the number one cause of those power supplies dying is the fact that they get too hot in the enclosure and fry, but as I stated before, if the Dotmation screen is on and working, it's getting power.

This has nothing to do with the problem at hand, but I've been moving the upper power supply out of the inside of the Dot box and mounting it on the back side of the Dot box to get it out of that little oven. Use the same screw holes but put a spacer between the power supply and the Dot box to keep it from shorting out. Both the ribbon and regular wire harness are long enough. This is also one of the few machines that I believe needs a exhaust fan.

Thanks for the idea of placing the power supply out the enclosure, seems like that would keep it cooler.
I put the upper supply back in the machine and powered it back up. It lasted about 3 minutes and the error happened this time the dotmation screen finally failed. It will not turn on at all anymore. I think I may attempt the ATX power supply fix.
Thanks again for everyone's help!

nevermind

Oh, just to clarify, the machine turns on but the dotmation screen is black.

Sounds like the upper then. You can do the ATX fix without damaging any of the factory wiring. Worst case is that you'll be out about $20 if it doesn't fix the problem.

that is good advice

Hello again, I am actually just getting around to working on the upper and lower power supply fix. I had everything ready to go, but when I opened the lower power supply up I realized its not exactly like the one in the referenced in cfh's fix. So I don't know which "two .156" molex connectors" to disconnect inside the original lower power supply. I believe the original power supply must have been replaced with a Piggy bank one so it looks different, please see the photos. I am not quite sure how to proceed, can anyone help?
Thanks.

Well, that's interesting.

It actually looks like someone has already replaced the original lower power supply with a new one.  I don't believe that box with the yellow sticker on it is a factory WMS job.

Based on your previous posts, your lower power supply is working properly (and likely will for a while since the original crap power supply has already been refurbished by someone else).  As such, I wouldn't touch that at all and I would just go for the quick and dirty ATX fix for your upper power supply (explained in this post (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=90.msg352#msg352)).  As I mentioned previously, you can do that fix without having to modify any of the wiring in the machine, and you should then be good to go!


(If you're hell-bent on replacing the lower power supply, look closely at the picture below from CFH's post -- you can see where the key wires from his fix match up with the wires in your modified power supply.  The green with yellow tracer, black with purple tracer, and white with purple tracer wires shown at the bottom of the power supply in your picture match up with the small harness in his picture.  The remaining wires (red, black, yellow, blue) all appear to match up with the wires shown in the larger harness in his picture.  I really urge you, though, to not waste your time with the lower power supply in your machine, as it looks like it has already been repaired with new components.)

(http://i43.tinypic.com/10zn7o1.jpg)

Hi, So actually the " box with the yellow sticker", the voltage regulator was replaced by me, it  had a melt down. I replaced that and was good to go for a while, then the upper power supply failed. I then did the ATX fix for the upper supply and it worked for about 20 minutes and I got the dot fail again. I figured that since I had the ATX ps, I would go ahead and use that for both the upper and lower power supply fix. I had everything ready to go and when I opened the lower supply that's when I realized its from a Piggy Bank machine (which was written on the box case, that was replaced by the previous owner). So I circled the wires in yellow that I think you are referring to remove? Please let me know if its correct.
Thank you again for your help.

Piggy Bankin' was just another Dotmation game -- the particular theme of the machine shouldn't make a difference when it comes to the power supply in it.

Out of curiosity, you said that the Dotmation screen was working for 20 minutes, then the Dot Fail message came back.  Is the screen lighting up any more when you turn on the ATX power supply?  Even with the machine off, if that ATX supply is working, the Dotmation screen should light up and if nothing else show you the Williams logo for a little while.


...and yes, the wires you circled in yellow are the ones I was referring to.  If you look at CFH's picture in my earlier reply, it sure looks to me like those are the same wires as were originally in the factory harnesses based on their color codes and grouping.

Hi, Yes the screen did light up but the dot fail message came up. I am going to remove the  wires today and give an update later.
Thanks again.

Hmmm my ATX has no power?

I HAVE THIS PROBLEM ON ONE OF MY MACHINES (WINNING STREAK)... THE GAME WORKS PERFECTLY.... EXCEPT FOR ONE THING... IT BOOTS UP ONE BONG, GOES THROUGH SHOWS WILLIAMS VERSION 5.13, (AND NEVER MOVES ON FROM THAT WITH THE DOT MATRIX AT THIS POINT, BUT ALL ELSE CONTINUES TO WORK AND BOOT PERFECTLY), and then bill validator makes correct noise and then coin insert is ready.... I can add money or coins and credits work... I can pull handle or hit button and play... BUT IT (THE DOT MATRIX BOARD NEVER GETS OFF OF WILLIAMS 5.1)... I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING.... CHANGING XU3, I/O BOARDS.... (THE LOWER I/O BOARD IS THE PROBLEM SOMEHOW, I KNOW THIS FROM JUST SWITCHING THINGS AROUND ONE AT A TIME WITH A WORKING VERSION OF WINNING STREAK....  I PULLED XU3 AND DID RAM CLEAR, NOTHING CHANGES...)  WHEN I HIT THE BONUS, IT WORKS, BUT STILL STUCK ON WILLIAMS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE BOOT.... WHAT IS THE PROBLEM... (i don't believe its power like everyone seems to be having, but an I/O problem or the lower board is forgetting to tell the DOT MATRIX SCREEN TO "BE COOL AND GO WITH THE PROGRAM DAMMIT"...  IT JUST STOPS AT THE WILLIAMS SCREEN....  But what baffles me, (and has taken 12+ hours last 2-3 days I CAN NEVER GET BACK, {but I have learned so much from here about Williams' 40x machines}, is I CANNOT SOLVE THIS PROBLEM....  A couple threads stated they had this SAME PROBLEM, but I think they were mis diagnosed as a POWER PROBLEM... I THINK ITS SOMETHING ELSE.... BECAUSE POWER IS GOING WHERE ITS SUPPOSED TO... THE INFO OF THE GAME TO DOT MATRIX STARTS AND STOPS AT THE WILLIAMS BOOT UP)....  Thats what baffles me.... I cannot figure this out...  I love a challange, but I am throwing in the towel and ASKING FOR HELP ON THIS....

Comm cable from CPU board to Dotmation board tight?  Have you tried the second port for the cable on the Dotmation board?  Usually you'd get a 'dot comm' failure if the cable was not connected, so it's odd that the game continues without the screen being reset.  The CPU board is what tells the board which tells the screen what to display, so it may be a bad communication between them, enough to allow a boot but not enough to drive the game.

I thought the same thing... Cuz Williams comes up and stays there and the rest of the game boots and I can play EVERYTHING like its working normally... Except the screen never changes or moves off that....  And before the Williams part it does boot with the bars moving horizontally showing its booting up or whatever, but once that WILLAIMS V 5.13 comes up, DOT MATRIX BOX thinks it is done doing its job... I will try those two "simple" things, that I didnt think of... I have changed the board with a good board from another machine and the dot matrix box worked fine... So THE PROBLEM FOR SURE IS ON THAT MAIN CPU BOARD... But it IS NOT XU3....  Could it possibly be XU2?  Should I pull XU2 out and try putting in XU2 chip from a good board?  Its drriving me nuts i CANT LOCATE THE PROBLEM YET....  and I have spent hours combing this board and I did every "power problem check" thinking it might be that and then finally realizing it cant be a power problem, everything is running fine!!!!  Its communication problem... I did read in two other threads of 2 people HAVING THE EXACT PROBLEM I AM HAVING but they were given answers to it being a power problem and never found out disposition or an answer for them...  I appreciate the help and will let you know what happens on MY MYSTERY OF MYSTERIES last 48 hours....  (Never had a problem take this long....  Most frustrating part is I CANT FIGURE OUT WHAT THE PROBLEM IS....  Be much easier to fix it or get an answer if I JUST KNEW what the problem is....  AHHHHHHHHHH.... 

Again, thank you for the help....  And if ANYONE HAS HAD THIS SAME PROBLEM ON ANY 40x machine and has any more ideas or anything PLEASE POST HERE.... I check this site many times a day....

thank you!!!

I HAVE THIS PROBLEM ON ONE OF MY MACHINES (WINNING STREAK)... THE GAME WORKS PERFECTLY.... EXCEPT FOR ONE THING... IT BOOTS UP ONE BONG, GOES THROUGH SHOWS WILLIAMS VERSION 5.13, (AND NEVER MOVES ON FROM THAT WITH THE DOT MATRIX AT THIS POINT, BUT ALL ELSE CONTINUES TO WORK AND BOOT PERFECTLY), and then bill validator makes correct noise and then coin insert is ready.... I can add money or coins and credits work... I can pull handle or hit button and play... BUT IT (THE DOT MATRIX BOARD NEVER GETS OFF OF WILLIAMS 5.1)... I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING.... CHANGING XU3, I/O BOARDS.... (THE LOWER I/O BOARD IS THE PROBLEM SOMEHOW, I KNOW THIS FROM JUST SWITCHING THINGS AROUND ONE AT A TIME WITH A WORKING VERSION OF WINNING STREAK....  I PULLED XU3 AND DID RAM CLEAR, NOTHING CHANGES...)  WHEN I HIT THE BONUS, IT WORKS, BUT STILL STUCK ON WILLIAMS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE BOOT.... WHAT IS THE PROBLEM... (i don't believe its power like everyone seems to be having, but an I/O problem or the lower board is forgetting to tell the DOT MATRIX SCREEN TO "BE COOL AND GO WITH THE PROGRAM DAMMIT"...  IT JUST STOPS AT THE WILLIAMS SCREEN....  But what baffles me, (and has taken 12+ hours last 2-3 days I CAN NEVER GET BACK, {but I have learned so much from here about Williams' 40x machines}, is I CANNOT SOLVE THIS PROBLEM....  A couple threads stated they had this SAME PROBLEM, but I think they were mis diagnosed as a POWER PROBLEM... I THINK ITS SOMETHING ELSE.... BECAUSE POWER IS GOING WHERE ITS SUPPOSED TO... THE INFO OF THE GAME TO DOT MATRIX STARTS AND STOPS AT THE WILLIAMS BOOT UP)....


My brother and I have troubleshot everything possible EXCEPT ONE THING... WE KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE LOWER CPU BOARD IS THE PROBLEM... BEcAUSE WHEN WE REMOVE THE BOARD AND PUT IT INTO A WORKING WINNING STREAK, IT DOESNT WORK...  We pulled XU3  from the "broken board" and put it into the working machine.... And did the 25 cent williams reset chip thingy (only chip I have, and I am hearing there may or is another RESET cHIP for the upper board(s) for the Dot Matrix)... THE ONE THING WE HAVENT DONE IS CHANGE THE XU 2 MAIN cHIP.... We are afraid it will fook things up....  If I pull the XU 2 Chip from the "broken board" and put it into the working machine, and it works, I think that would be everything except testing CAPACITORS (usually in TV REPAIR you look for a capacitor that is "bubbled up" and know its bad immediately....)  These, I am unsure how to check em... But I am thinking XU 2 may be the problem... And if so, will I have to reset with some DIFFERENT WILLIAMS RESET CHIP I DONT OWN (YET).....????  

How do I check to see if capacitors are working or not???? (I know WAY ROOKIE QUESTION)... THey are the big green ones.... It does make sense that if one of the many big green ones are blown that IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE, that the machine worked 100% EXCEPT FOR THE DOT MATRIX DISPLAY... AND JUST SAT WAITING FOR INFO IT NEVER RECEIVES PAST THE BOOT UP AND THE "WILLIAMS V 5.13" PART THAT STAYS UP...

 ANY IDEAS???? HELP????

What happened to your raves about how all of your machines work perfectly  ?????   :103- :103-      While I am hesitant to assist you in any capacity;  I'll chime in on your post .     In regards to your expert opinion  that you "know for a fact that the CPU board is the problem".....  I'm assuming you verified that the jurisdiction jumpers are the same on both machines.   And  your comment about "I am hearing there may or is another RESET cHIP for the upper board(s) for the Dot Matrix"   ... is also incorrect.   I would replace the XU3 and XU4 on the board in the dot box  ( possibly the XU10 ; but less likely)........ but what do I know....

Theboundbook Just a little friendly advice, if I were you I would not get into a pissing match with Tollguy about what's wrong with your machine, and how to fix it. The simple truth is, he knows what he's talking about. If Bill were to tell me my Dotmations would work better with the machine upside down I would start removing the candles.

Why would I get into a pissing match with anyone?  I definitely have no reason to..... not sure when I became someone who is acting better than anyone else here... ITS MY 1st YEAR DOING THIS... I HAVE STATED THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN... I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MY MACHINE IS BETTER THAN SOMEONE ELSES... XU3 is the only chip I havent pulled and changed... I KNOW ITS THE CPU BOARD BECAUSE I TOOK THE BOARD OUT AFTER TRYING ALL THE POWER SUPPLY THINGS IN THE THREADS I READ THROUGH HERE, AND ONE BY ONE CHECKED OFF EACH POSSIBILITY.. THEN I GOT TO THE CPU BOARD.. THEY ARE BOTH IDENTICAL WINNING STREAKS (I HAVE 4, 2 RUNNING, 1 I HAVENT STARTED TO MESS WITH AND THEN THIS ONE....  THE REASON I ASKED ABOUT ANOTHER TYPE OF RESET CHIP WAS I READ IT (Or thought I did) in a thread on the site here...  When I took out the dot box and plugged it in to another machine it WORKED PERFECTLY, so I thought, ok, cant be that... Then I took out each ribbon and tried them in a working machine from the screwy one, again, no problems... The only thing that didnt work was the CPU BOARD... It actually just made the working machine (including the dot matrix) turn into a working machine that stopped communicating after it booted up, bonged once, bvd 200 sounds sounded correct, and then it got to the WILLIAMS Version 5.13 and then it stopped communicating....  but I could put money in, quarters in, and the credits worked, and it played correctly.. Just no change on the dot matrix board... even when i hit the bonus...  So, I have to figure its somewhere on that board n had to do with I/O COmmunications... I again, am guessing... Thats why I asked......  I can pull XU2 and no chance of screwing up the working one???? (My brother had the idea it would screw up the working one so we havent checked and pulled that chip (which is one of the last things it could be besides maybe a capacitor we thought)...  I have read through the 40x manual and cant find anything like this WITHOUT THE MACHINE GIVING A ERROR CODE, but, There are no ERROR CODES being shown by the machine... The machine believes it is working just fine... But the dot matrix gets stuck without fail on any machine i temporarily hook that cpu board to another Winning Streak Machine that I have working 100% already...  (I have 2 I can troubleshoot with by doing this process of elimination....  I spent alot of time thinking it was a power supply problem since that is the common problem with the 40x machines it seemed; but then I realized all the power stuff was working... It was a communication error...  I will try again what you have suggested, and like I stated, I AM NOVICE AS HELL.. I just learned what takes me 4-8 hours to do on a machine most pros take 90 min to 3 hours to clean and fix an IGT Machine... I definitely seem to be coming off in a completely different way then I EVER INTENDED TO.....

I will try everything you have recommended, and THANK YOU FOR CHIMING IN....

Brad

Id love to know as much as you all; but I am here to learn, and INTENDED to get along with everyone.... Again, I am sorry I offended whomever or came off like I was an expert after just starting this "hobby" in March of 2013....