Where is the welfare money going?

[CaptainHappy]

Interesting article... What are your thoughts??? Originally posted in Jay's Gaming News, but I moved it to Rants just in case???

Technology is showing us some interesting facts.... Apparently the GOVERNATOR (Arnold) is now signing an Executive Order to block the use of these cards at California Casinos... Will that hurt the casinos? Depends on how clever people get using these cards for getting cash money at "OK" locations and then going to spend OUR money at the casinos!

Granted it is just a small percentage of the outlandish total spent, but it really makes it look bad for honest people who are truely in need of a helping hand.

CaptainHappy

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-welfare-20101004,0,5787669.story

$69 million in California welfare money drawn out of state
Las Vegas tops the list with $11.8 million spent at casinos or taken from ATMs, but transactions in Hawaii, Miami, Guam and elsewhere also raise questions. Officials say budget cuts hinder investigations.

By Jack Dolan, Los Angeles Times
October 4, 2010
Reporting from Sacramento —

More than $69 million in California welfare money, meant to help the needy pay their rent and clothe their children, has been spent or withdrawn outside the state in recent years, including millions in Las Vegas, hundreds of thousands in Hawaii and thousands on cruise ships sailing from Miami.

State-issued aid cards have been used at hotels, shops, restaurants, ATMs and other places in 49 other states, the U.S. Virgin Islands and Guam, according to data obtained by The Times from the California Department of Social Services. Las Vegas drew $11.8 million of the cash benefits, far more than any other destination. The money was accessed from January 2007 through May 2010.

Welfare recipients must prove they can't afford life's necessities without government aid: A single parent with two children generally must earn less than $14,436 a year to qualify for the cash assistance and becomes ineligible once his or her income exceeds about $20,000, said Lizelda Lopez, spokeswoman for the Department of Social Services.

Round-trip flights from Los Angeles to Honolulu on Orbitz.com Sunday started at $419 — more than 80% of the average monthly cash benefit for a single parent of two on CalWorks, the state's main aid program.

"How they can go somewhere like Hawaii and be legit on aid … they can't," said Robert Hollenbeck, a fraud investigator for the Fresno County district attorney's office. "This is money for basic subsistence needs."

The $387,908 accessed in Hawaii includes transactions at more than a thousand big-box stores, grocery stores, convenience shops and ATMs on all the major islands. At least $234,000 was accessed on Oahu, $70,626 on Maui, $39,883 on Hawaii and $22,170 on Kauai.

The list includes $12,433 spent at the upscale Ala Moana shopping center, $3,030 spent at a group of gift shops next to Jimmy Buffett's Beachcomber restaurant on Waikiki Beach and $2,146 withdrawn from ATMs on the island of Lanai, home to a pair of Four Seasons resorts and little else.

"If it's on Lanai, that should trigger an investigation," said Jon Coupal, president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Assn. "California taxpayers, who are struggling to keep their own jobs, are subsidizing other people's vacations. That's absurd."

Of the nearly $12 million accessed in Las Vegas, more than $1 million was spent or withdrawn at shops and casino hotels on, or within a few blocks of, the 4.5-mile strip. The list includes $8,968 at the Tropicana, $7,995 at the Venetian and its Grand Canal Shoppes, and $1,332 at Tix 4 Tonight, seller of discount admission for such acts as Cirque du Soleil.

Although many Las Vegas casinos block the use of welfare cards in ATMs on gambling floors, more than $34,700 has been spent or withdrawn from the ATM at a 7-Eleven in the shadow of Steve Wynn's new Encore casino and a couple of blocks south of Circus Circus.

[CaptainHappy]

PART 2 OF POST

The store's owner, Rupee Chima, knows the California welfare cards well. He said the people using them don't look like high rollers. "They're not coming in with Rolexes," he said.

And it's possible, he noted, to pack a bunch of people in a car, drive four hours from Los Angeles and share a room at a down-market casino hotel for a relatively frugal vacation.

Californian Omar Mikhail, dining at Encore, said his parents paid their rent with welfare aid when they immigrated to the Bay Area from Afghanistan in the early 1980s. They would never have dreamed of driving to Las Vegas with their monthly check, he said.

"When I hear something like that, it's so disheartening," he said.

The data show addresses of stores and ATM locations where the cards have been used and the amounts of the transactions by year. They do not reveal the identities of the welfare recipients or show how many users visited a given retailer.

Of the $1.5 million accessed in Florida, $13,109 was spent or withdrawn in South Beach, most of that at bars and restaurants along trendy Lincoln Road. More than $7,000 was withdrawn from ATMs a few hours north, at Walt Disney World.

The data also show $16,010 withdrawn from 14 cruise ships sailing from ports around the world — Long Beach, Rio de Janeiro, Beijing. Eight sail primarily from Miami.

The out-of-state spending accounts for less than 1% of the $10.8 billion spent by welfare recipients during the period covered, and advocates note that there are legitimate reasons to spend aid money outside of California. From the data provided, it cannot be determined whether any of the expenditures resulted from fraud.

"I think when somebody hears it's in a fancy hotel in Hawaii or Vegas, it's too easy to assume the [welfare recipient] is visiting that place and it wasn't somebody who stole their card," said Jessica Bartholow, a legislative advocate for the Western Center on Law and Poverty.

There is no rule preventing welfare recipients from leaving California, as long as they get clearance from their county case worker to be absent from the program's 32-hour-a-week job training requirement. County investigators, who state authorities say are responsible for rooting out fraud and abuse, typically don't question a recipient's whereabouts until transactions on a welfare card show that he or she has been gone for more than 30 days.

"If it's a one-time thing in Miami, we would never check that out," said John Haley, commander of the financial crimes division of the San Diego County district attorney's office, who said 24% of all new welfare applications in his jurisdiction contain some form of fraud. "We look for patterns of abuse."

In Los Angeles County, investigators hadn't been checking until a recipient was gone for three months, said Department of Public Social Services Director Philip Browning. The inability to do more was "really just a resource issue," he said.

Following questions from The Times, Browning said investigators would start inquiring once the data show that a recipient has been gone for more than 30 days.

Many recipients travel to other states in an emergency such as a death in the family, investigators say. But with government resources scarce, it's difficult to sort those cases from incidents of abuse.

An anti-fraud unit in Orange County, which won praise from state officials last year for saving the state millions, has since had to slash its budget and lay off 15 investigators, said Paul Bartlett, commander of the county district attorney's Bureau of Investigation.

Those cuts saved $900,000 in operating expenses but allowed "an estimated $9.6 million in suspected fraud payments out the door," according to an Orange County Grand Jury report released in May.

A state audit last year found that none of California's 58 counties was adequately following up on information that could help root out fraud, including monthly computer matches that list clients who are receiving duplicate aid from other states, those who are ineligible because they're in prison and others who have died.

jack.dolan@latimes.com

Copyright © 2010, Los Angeles Times

[jay]

I have some friends that are fairly well to do.... however their son has been living with this white trash bunny who has been popping out babies faster than she can get her legs back together. She came from Welfare, her parents are on welfare, her brothers are both on welfare. She convinced my friends son to quit his job because between his EI cheque, and his Welfare cheque and her Welfare cheque (their not married). They now have more money combined. He will look for work again after the EI runs out......   

As much as this makes my friends blood boil  (and mine)  they have none the less sprung for a family vacation at Disney World this Christmas for the whole clan. I was kind of hoping it was a one way ticket out of the country......  So in this case the Welfare bums will likely be drawing out cash at the ATM at Disney World.

So it is quite possible that in cases like this these people are on vacation..... but not on the taxpayers nickle and as much as I disagree with it, they are doing nothing wrong by accepting the gift as every child should get to see Mickey.

I can also see that in places like Nevada it would be very temping to take your $500 cheque and try and double or triple it by playing a game of chance. Desprate people do desprate things.

With that said I think the real solution is NOT putting people on Welfare or UI in the first place. They need to be given jobs that give back to society.

One article I read was about waste management and the fact that less than 30% of the population effectively recyles. One suggestion was that they "employ" people who are lookng for social assistance as recyclers. They open up every bag of garbage and sort out the recyleables, the compostables and the landfill stuffs. A certain percentage of people would then be used as Daycare workers looking after the children of the people who can't work because of their kids at home, others could be nutritionalists, they could do food co-ops for group buys to lower the cost of daily life.  They would then have the ability to get people into substance abuse programs. The best part of this is that not only does the program make money from the recyling of compost and material, but the environment benefits. Most of this work comes with enough distain that people would find jobs pretty quick. The other suggestion would be the concept of a living wage. Where people who are working get a subsidy between their Mc. Job and what they need to live. With the goal to move them up the employment scale and get them off goverment coffers. Then there is military service for those who are capable......

Off  box now......

[CaptainHappy]

Jay,

I have similar thoughts... I guess that I would not make it as a politician?

I believe in giving someone a Hand UP and not a Hand OUT!

My idea of welfare is the same a yours.... I call it WORKfare.

I think when you apply you get a DEPO shot if female. (Birth control shot.)

I think that before you pick up your check, you first pass a drug test!

I will stop now....

OFF OF THE 

CH

[tacman]

Hey, BIG surprise! This is what happens with generations of voluntary slavery to the welfare state and other social programs for VOTES.   And you can thank community activist organizations like ACORN that hold classes to show people what forms to fill out and what to say on them to maximize their income from these different programs. I applaud programs that give a TEMPORARY assistance in times of need, but this has become a way of life for allot of people. Hell, my Mom's 76 and complains about no raises in Social Security. I tell her to complain to AARP and other lobbyists to find out why an 18 year old male is getting $1200.00 a month for SSI because of asthma and never put a dime into the program cause he never had a REAL job. But the SSI, Food Stamps, Free Housing, Welfare and slinging crack cocaine makes for a real GOOD life. Good enough to buy a BMW 745 all the newest cell phones, big screen TVs, Rolex watches, the newest kicks.   How come I never see investigative reports like that on the news networks? Its a f*#&$!g   joke!!!

 Dan (tacman)

Great, now I gotta go to the range and blow off some steam!  

[stormrider]

In Buffalo,NY as the school year started a few weeks ago
someone had the bright idea that for the people on welfare who can't afford books and supplies for the kiddies
they would apply $500 cash into everyones welfare card,needless to say all the atm's within the city limits went down
within an hour as lines then formed outside the area liquor stores as well as the 7-11's which had brisk sales in lotto tickets and scratch offs.

Funny how I pay school taxes highest in the country that go up every year
but we get a list of supplies for my daughter that well exceed a few hundred
not counting that scientific calculator they want you to buy every year.

Bottom line here is these people make more money on welfare plus each baby adds to the pot
not to mention selling drugs pays better than working at Micky D's where a monkey could work the register
with the pictures of burgers,fries,and shakes on it so the order is right..which they never get right
god forbid they would ever have to make change.

I will never understand why bling and the newest Nike's are more important
then standing up and being a man or a good mother having a job,class,and a future for your kids.


Tim

[Yoeddy1]

Articles like this make me black out and start rocking in my chair.  I especially love those that collect welfare this way...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dHIuXnNKKGo&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/dHIuXnNKKGo&rel=0</a>

I'm so pissed now.

[Brianzz]

Boy, they caught 12.. they must be so proud, as the other 1200 get away with it.

I have a very part time job in a retail store and all the EBT'ers, as I call them, come rolling in with their free money to buy energy drinks and $12 bags of beef jerky, I always tell them you're welcome and when they as what for I tell them for buying junk for them. But EBT is now changing over to SNAP.. because it's a SNAP to defraud the government out of food stamps.

My drug addict brother is getting food stamps based soley on the fact that he's too lazy to work, and his "girlfriend" gets them too, along with government grants and government student loans to go to school for free all in an effort to avoid getting an actual job, comes in pretty handy to get housing money in with your school loans. Of course they both have children they claim yet at the first of every month they call everyone they know and ask if they want to buy their food stamps for cash at .50 cash = $1 in food stamps. I've called to report them numerous times yet they still continue to get 'em.. the gov't doesn't care.

I'm all for everyone that gets any kind of gov't money be it food stamps or welfare or whatever submit to a drug test at least twice a year, if something shows up that's not prescribed to you, here's the boot and you're put on a gov't blacklist where you'll never get any kind of assistance ever again and you'll be forced to pay back what you've already received.

[brichter]

Boy, they caught 12.. they must be so proud, as the other 1200 get away with it.

And people wonder why Californians (the ones who work) are so pissed off at the state government.

[JOHN42355]

I think I heard that they were over paying the toll takers.

[slotsteve]

when we lived in  nj  and went to slot parlors in  pa  the 1st 5 days of the month  the place was packed   you would hear them crying the blew their free money for the month and had no $$$ left to pay bills , state should start checling players cards for welfare people , most use them for the free shit, when we sold all our stuff in 08 we had to paid almost 400,000 in taxes  makes me sick to see such waste,I would have  rather lost same money in casino then pay that bill

[jay]

The problem is that these folks sell their food stamps at less than face value and then use the money for more illicit pursuits.

There have been a number of suggestions to control such behaviors such as giving people debit cards that only allow them to purchase certain items excluding booze and cigarettes. The problem is they go in and buy 500 in soda and then sell that off for the cash.

I would think that  they should manage the costs a bit more. Ie pay the electric bill directly. Pay the mortage company, pay the rental guy.

This would give the goverment leway to also reduce certain costs like interest and penalties.

[stayouttadabunker]

I'd say...drop the Welfare Plan completely and use the millions of dollars to create jobs for people.
There's no reason ANYONE should be out of work IF you have enough jobs.

[tacman]

The problem with that Bunker is that we're in a quagmire now. This is from the CATO Institute and from what I read it is JUST for welfare, not to include accompanying social programs like food stamps or housing.

The value of the full package of welfare benefits for a typical recipient in each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia exceeds the poverty level. Because welfare benefits are tax-free, their dollar value is often greater than the amount of take-home income a worker would have left after paying taxes on an equivalent pretax income.

•In 40 states welfare pays more than an $8.00 an hour job. In 17 states the welfare package is more generous than a $10.00 an hour job.
•In Hawaii, Alaska, Massachusetts, Connecticut, the District of Columbia, New York, and Rhode Island welfare pays more than a $12.00 an hour job--or two and a half times the minimum wage.
•In nine states welfare pays more than the average first-year salary for a teacher. In 29 states it pays more than the average starting salary for a secretary. And in the six most generous states it pays more than the entry-level salary for a computer programmer.
•Welfare benefits are especially generous in large cities. Welfare provides the equivalent of an hourly pretax wage of $14.75 in New York City, $12.45 in Philadelphia, $11.35 in Baltimore, and $10.90 in Detroit. For the hard-core welfare recipient, the value of the full range of welfare benefits substantially exceeds the amount the recipient could earn in an entry-level job. As a result, recipients are likely to choose welfare over work, thus increasing long-term dependence.

How do we incorporate these people into a system that right now can't even employ peopple that WANT to work.

 Dan (tacman)

[a69mopar]

I'd say...drop the Welfare Plan completely and use the millions of dollars to create jobs for people.
There's no reason ANYONE should be out of work IF you have enough jobs.

I could imagine the jobs in law enforcement would soar since the crime rate would be through the roof.  Maybe they could chop off their arms for stealing a loaf of bread, that would teach them not to steal food for their family.  I hate when people screw the system, but there are plenty of people in real need out there that would starve or freeze or... if the welfare was cut.  I believe they should create jobs for people to follow up on the fraud cases instead of ignoring them.  I can't imagine why they wouldn't cut off cards when used outside of the country.

my 2¢

W

[brichter]

I think I heard that they were over paying the toll takers.

Fire all of 'em. I've got a Fastrak, and I roll through the toll booths at 70+ mph. Beep Beep, good to go. If it doesn't go Beep Beep, they snap a pic of the camera and check it against the database I put my plate numbers into, and deduct it anyway.