New Life Games Tech Forums

Hi all,
This probably sounds like a dumb question but I have to ask and I hope that someone can help.  I have a Game King that when I put in the monitor and turn it on, it blows the middle fuse on the power supply (2A SB).  I replace the fuse, pull out the monitor, and turn it on, and it DOESN'T blow the fuse.  To me it sounds like the monitor is definitely the problem, but is it possible that it is the power supply or something else?
Thanks!   

I can't speak specifically about the GameKing but Monitors generally work on 110v
Have you tried plugging it into the wall directly ? (might need to make a cable) does it pop your house breaker ?

If not when its on and working can you measure voltage from its chasis ? as it might be shorting against the GK chasis..... (just speculation).

Hope this helps.

You may and to try and look at the plug connectors on the monitor and the machine chassis (The connector that looks like the hopper plugs.) and see if any of the pins are bent and causing the short. :103- :103- :103- Just a thought.

CaptainHappy :95-

Thank you Jay and CaptainHappy for replying!

I am not real familiar or comfortable with monitors but there is a sticker on the back of the monitor that says "Power connector wired for 230V".   

The male pins in the connector on the back of the monitor and the female pins in the connector on the machine chassis both look fine.

I was told that the monitor work fine in this machine shortly before I bought it, but the machine was like this when I bought it.  There is a sticker on the shelf under the monitor that says "WARNING Power must be off prior to removing or installing monitor".  Does anyone know what would happen if someone installed or removed the monitor with the power on?  Maybe this is the problem?????           

 

You might see a pretty lightning show.  :)

I kinda thought that too but nothing looks burnt in the monitor chassis.

Heh heh...yeah, I don't know if you would see a pop like that...it might just go dark on ya.

Sounds like your monitor is drawing too much current and blowing the fuse as you suggested.  How old is your game?  Is it a Game King or Game King +?  What size monitor do you have?  A couple of pictures of the inside of the machine might help.

I don't recommend doing it, but I've never noticed any harm to anything the few times I have done it.
 Billk I looked at your profile and your one of those people that keep their location top secret. I can only guess that your overseas some place and using 220 V elect. am I right????? :103- :103-

On most monitors you will see what looks like a big suction cup that has a big insulated wire to the back of the monitor.
This carries in excess of 1800v. When working on a monitor the first thing you do is insert a screwdriver (with plastic handle) and short this out and you hear a big crack of energy being released.

There are other places that carry similar voltages so by NOT disconnecting the monitor you risk electrocution by potentially grabbing on to something that you should not.
It is easy during the removal process to accidently short the monitor against the chasis and fry other parts of the slot and or yourself.

Since the connecting cables are not that long when you pull the monitor out - still connected you get a bugs bunny moment when you run out of leash and then you end up dropping, twisting and/or shorting the machine.

All not good for your health.

Billk,
Now why would you even WANT TO remove a monitor with the power on?  :103-
That's just asking for trouble.... :60-
Are you being featured on a TV show like "America's Funniest Videos" ?   :72-

Thanks for replying Jay and Stayouttadabunker!!

Trust me, I respect electricity.  I will flip the breaker to a light or fan when replacing it, and I also make sure a machine is off/unplugged when replacing parts.         

Jay  A Game King monitor unplugs a lot like a hopper, nothing to disconnect.

 The worse shock I've ever got from a slot machine was the other day when I got my hand down aroung a S+ hopper. The shock wasn't all that bad, it was the damage I did to my hand when I jerked back. ( I bleed easy )  :279- :279- :279-

For some reason the following reply didn't go thru with my pictures:

Thanks for replying Yoeddy1, Tilt, and Buzz!!

I have attached a couple of pictures of the inside of my machine, it has a 13"/14" monitor.  I don't know if it is a Game King or a Game King+, how can I tell the difference?

No, I am not overseas, I live in Illinois.  
  

Are there any numbers on the MPU board?
Why not take it out and snap a picture of it?
From the photo, I'll be able to tell what you have unless somebody else knows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMbN9nb3qyk&feature=youtube_gdata_player (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMbN9nb3qyk&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

  Your not by chance using to small of a fuse ??   I don't have any 13/14" machines but on a 19" I removed the fuses one at a time and the only one that effected the monitor was the center one.  ( to small of a fuse was a BAD idea ) it is only a 2A fuse

Keep in mind that my machine is different than yours.  The Blue and the Brown wires right above your fuses supply the monitor with power.( On my machine it's the one on the right ). In your Pic. it looks like you have two that are Blue and Brown I would inspect both those sets of wires for bare spots. I don't know what it would prove but you could leave one or both unplugged and see if the fuse blows.  

Next time you have the monitor out, remove the chassis, or at least remove the two screws and lift it up and make sure nothing got under it when it was moved.

Watch me get people all upset with this statement.
I wouldn't worry to much about getting shocked by a monitor that's not plugged in to electricity, I'm NOT saying it can't happen, I am saying I've never been shocked by a monitor. I know I've heard all the stories about discharging the tube with a screw driver and the cable from the flyback. I tryed the screw driver trick many times, not one time did I ever see are hear a arc. Matter of fact I've read that modern monitors are self discharging.  Is it possible one might not self discharge? I guess it's possible, I guess it's possible I might hit a WOF the next time I'm in a casino, but not likely !!  

I've always loved this "CRT Discharging" video made by Sult...
People were bitching about his 1st "CRT Discharging" video so he made this one :72- >>>

http://www.myslotnotes.com/myslotfiles/result0251.wmv (http://www.myslotnotes.com/myslotfiles/result0251.wmv)

You have a standard game king.  The IO board tray above the MPU board is the easiest way of identifying it.  GK+ machines have a smaller IO board mounted on the left side of the cabinet.  Your monitor does operate off of 230VAC.  There's an isolation transformer inside the power distribution box (the one with the fuses) that steps up the 115VAC input to 230VAC.  If used in a country where 230V is the primary voltage then it's wired 1:1, so 230V, 230V out.  

Anyhow, check the wiring and connector pins and if they look good the problem is in your monitor.  The blue and brown wires are the 230V power for it like Buzz said.  

Your monitor should have a make and model sticker on the chassis somewhere.  Post that and maybe someone will have a manual for it that they can send you.  

Thank you all for the ideas on things to check and the videos, Yoeddy's video made the hair on head stand up :111-

I will do some more investigating tomorrow and let you know what I find out.

Thanks again for all your help!!

CRT type monitors will blow a fuse when......

1. Power supply electrolytic capacitors are shorted.
2. Diodes are shorted.....
3. Horizontal output transistor is shorted (Feeds flyback transformer).

Simple and NON-DESTRUCTIVE test. Place TWO 100 watt household filament type lamps IN SERIES with the monitor's power. Turn on the power and observe the brightness of the ballast lamps.
Turn OFF power, remove Horizontal output transistor. Turn ON power...if lamps dimmed a lot, replace this device.
If still bright, put device back on the board.
Diodes. carefully clip the lead where you can bridge it back with solder. Clip one lead, turn power ON...if bright, turn off and clip another. Repeat until lamps dim.
Capacitors.JUST REPLACE THEM. So cheap, not worth saving them.Look at polarity first then wiggle them until the leads break off.Unsolder the lead left in the board.
Who cares if you kill the cap, the board is what you want to save.Replace a cap, turn on power...look at lights. Dim..you found it..bright...keep hunting.
A 100 watt set of lamps will pass about 0.8Amps of current. Not enough to blow things up, but enough to show you when your current demands drop.
When you find the bad part, the monitor will attempt to work normally. Remove the lamps and replace the fuse with the CORRECT type.....

It's an OLD trick...used by us old GEEZERS to find broken shit, goes back to the 50's....


Kirk

Thank you for replying Kirk, unfortunately I must be an idiot when it comes to monitors because I have read your response a dozen times and my head is still spinning.

Well, the fuse IS the correct size, nothing is under the monitor chassis grounding it, and the wires look good.  However, I have attached a picture of what I believe are the monitor wires (because they are the heavy blue and brown wires that you guys talked about) in the door, the connection certainly doesn't look right to me.  Can anyone tell me if that's how they are supposed to be?  It doesn't make sense to me that the monitor wires would be in the door.     

Bill...
The problem is in the monitor. You proved that by pulling it out and the fuse no longer blows.
This has nothing to do with wiring in the door.If it was internal cabinet wiring, it would blow with the monitor removed.
How to repair......
1>Pull monitor and test it in another chassis
2>Send monitor in for repair.
3>Swap CRT type monitor for flat panel LCD and new Bezel (best thing to do).

Kirk

Thanks again Kirk!!

Does anyone repair/know anyone that repairs touchscreen monitors in the Chicago area? 

Bill,

If you have a Ceronix monitor they offer a flat rate repair service for $45.00 + shipping both ways.  More details here:

http://www.ceronix.com/products_warranty.html (http://www.ceronix.com/products_warranty.html)

It is a Chunghwa monitor and a Ceronix 1493 chassis. 

Ok, it's a Ceronix 1493 monitor.  The CRT is Chunghwa.  Ceronix should take care of you.  Give them a call tomorrow, have the model/serial number handy.

Thank you for all of the information and clarifying the terminology. 

Thank you to everyone for your help!!

Hey Bill,

In looking closer at your last photo "004.jpg" I think you should disconnect the brown/blue wires from the connector to the right of that.  Those are fluorescent lamp wires, but it looks like yours have been cut for whatever reason.  Those black and white wires probably still have 115VAC line potential on them.  I take it the top lamp on your machine doesn't work?  This is why.  That hanging socket is where the florescent lamp starter would normally be mounted, and the ballast is completely missing.

Disconnect that mess, install your monitor, and power it up.  If the fuse still blows you have a problem in the monitor no doubt, if not then that other mess was causing the fuse to blow (perhaps shorting out with the door closed?).  Either way it needs to be fixed.

Great idea, Thanks Tilt!!

Here is an update:
I purchased another nonworking Game King over the weekend to help me troubleshoot my machine (well....that's what I told wife), it supposedly only had a bad power supply.  As it turns out, it had a bad power distribution box, and my original machine has a bad power supply.  After putting my power distribution box in the new machine, I get the attached picture on the monitor in the new machine.  Does anyone know how I fix that?    

Also, after getting the new machine up, I put the original monitor in it and guess what?  Ding, Ding, we have a winner........it blew the fuse meaning the monitor is bad as a couple of very knowledgeable NLG Members said.  As Tilt suggested, I will be sending the monitor to Ceronix, but now I need a new/replacement power distribution box, and power supply.  I will be placing a WTB on New Life Games Classifieds unless someone else has another idea.

Thank you again to ALL for your help!!              

Oh, and I also need a new/replacement ballast for the top light on my original machine.

It sounds like you're making some good progress.  When it's all said and done you'll have two working Game Kings  :89- 

The gray pixelated screen you see means the MPU board isn't booting up properly.  It could be MPU board itself is bad, but lots of time it's because an EPROM has been installed incorrectly, e.i. in the wrong socket, installed backwards, or a pin was bent during installation.  I'd pull them out and inspect them for damage.  Sometimes just pulling and re-seating them in their sockets will fix the problem. 

Does the MPU board from your first machine boot up in the second one?  If you swap them around you'll get an EEPROM error that you can clear by turning the jackpot reset key and pressing the test button on the MPU board.

Just curious, what is wrong with your power distribution box? Is a connector or something physically broken?  There's really not too much to them, some terminal boards, fuse holders, connectors and a couple of transformers.  The comm board that's installed in it is not used outside of a casino.  If you have a ribbon cable connected to it you can disconnect it.   

OK, Now I am really confused.   :103-

I am going to call the original machine #1, and the second machine appropriately #2.  Don't confuse these with bodily functions.   :D

Before checking the eproms on #2, I put the board from #1 into #2.  I got the same picture.    ?????

I checked the power distribution box from #2 and didn't see any physical damage to the connections.  I then put it back into #2 and now I didn't get any video.  Then I put the power distribution box from #1 back into #2, and also didn't get any video.  I then started wiggling wires and found a short in the wires behind the monitor connector in the chassis.  The power would go on and off, etc.  At a quick glance I can't tell why it is shorting out.

So then I moved the known good power supply, power distribution box, and monitor into #1.  The bottom front light went on, and I heard power go to the monitor but no picture, also no fans, lights to buttons, etc.  I then moved the board from #2 to #1, and same.    
  
 :103-


 

OK, we need to check some voltages to see if the power supply and AC distribution is really working the way it's supposed to.  Do you have a multimeter that you can use to check some voltage reading with?  If so, here's what we need to check.  On J11 on the motherboard put the (-) black lead on pin 10 (Ora/Blk wire), and the (+) red lead on pin 9 (Ora wire).  You should have a reading of ~25VDC.  Move the red lead to pin 8 (red wire).  You should have a reading of ~13VDC.  Then put the red lead on pin 6 (blk wire), you should have a reading of ~7VDC.  If all three of those are there then your power supply is working.  That also means that the AC input to the power supply from the power distribution box is good too. 

Does your working monitor have a power indicator on it so you can tell if it's getting power to it?  If not, you can check it with a multimeter too, but be VERY careful that you don't touch the meter leads to each other or yourself.  There should be ~250VAC going to it.  See the attached picture for where to measure it at.

It sound like you may have an intermittent connection if you can make the power come on and off by wiggling things around.  Make sure all the connectors to the power distribution box are seated properly, the one between the DC power supply and power distribution box, and the connector on the DC power supply itself.  I've attached a photo of my power distribution box that shows where the wires from it are going.  Yours has some additional connectors that are used for your AC florescent lighting.  Mine operate off of the 25VDC power supply so that's why I don't have anything connected there.



 
Moderator: Edited to remove invalid image links. SF :31-

Moderator: Edited to remove invalid image links. SF :31-

I checked to see what the voltage was to the J11 connector and didn't get any reading on any of the pins.  Is that possible if the lights, fans, and monitor worked with the same power distribution box and power supply? 
I then blew my meter testing the monitor plug in the chassis, my probes didn't touch but my meter sparked when I insert them into the connector.  What kind of meter do you recommend I buy? 
Also, on machine #2 all of the wires look fine to the monitor plug in the chassis, could a loose or no ground cause the bad connection?  There were supposed to be 2 ground wires that were grounded to the back of the monitor's plug bracket, and there may have only been 1.  I didn't realize that they were there until I took the bolts off. 
   

For the price, these are accurate, decent quality and somewhat disposable. You cant really go wrong (I have several of them around the house and office)

http://www.harborfreight.com/general-merch/electrical/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/general-merch/electrical/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html) 

This one has a backlit display, for $4.99....... (I have one of these too)

http://www.harborfreight.com/general-merch/electrical/7-function-digital-multimeter-92020.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/general-merch/electrical/7-function-digital-multimeter-92020.html)   



Kirk

That's the same one I have, I mean had. 

Thanks Kirk, at that price it's almost cheaper to buy a new one then to replace the batteries!

Billk,

I'm not sure why you didn't get any readings on those pins, perhaps you weren't making good contact with them?  You may need to use some force to get the leads all the way to the pins.  

Your fluorescent lights on machine #1 operate off of 115VAC.  I'm not sure about machine number #2 without seeing pictures of it.  The fans on these machines normally operate off of the 25VDC section of the DC power supply.  So the lights and fans could work (at least on machine number 1) but not boot if the 13VDC or 7VDC is missing.

I'm not sure why your blew your meter, most are pretty forgiving about measuring voltages that are out of range, unless you were using an older analog meter and didn't select the proper voltage range?

I'll shoot you a PM with my phone number.  We'll figure out what is wrong with it and get it going.

Holy cow, Kirk! Those are dirt cheap. I wouldn't trust them with sensitive readings or in cases where accuracy was crucial, but for that price, you could have them lying all over the house and just toss them when they blew up. :127- :200-

I wonder if they sell them by the dozen.  :30-   "With six you get eggroll"  :208- :208- :208-   Come to think of it, my DMM cost more than a dozen of these. :96-

They seem to be very accurate really. Most are based on the same DPM chipset, cant really go wrong with them at this price...


Kirk

Hmm...I'm getting hungry. I really want the eggroll... :96-

Enjoy!  :91-   http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063821/combined

:31-

I think he really was thinking of something more like the attached! I sure am! :279-

CH :95-

You'd take those over Doris Day? :297-  Poor Doris.  :72-




CH :95- I can't keep up with all the new emoticons.  :31-
:295- :296- :297- :298- :299- :300-

I like the new emoticons!  :wa
Someone should write a entire story with them... :199-

You guys sure know how to run off topic :214-  Since the current topic is emoticons, can we have TZ's old avatar added too  :79- :79-  :96-

The funny thing about the bug smiley is that I had it in reserve for some time, but thought it may BUG people.... when Ian put it up as an avatar, I figured that it was time to put it up. As for the previous avatar I have some smileys that I dare not add as they are not PG13!

CH :95-

Well, it did go off a bit...(From monitors to multimeters to eggrolls and TZ's old avatar...lol)
always does but it gets back on track...
It all kind of started when he blew his multimeter on
the J11 connector way back there somewhere! lol  :208-

Yeah, but we are where we are now..  TZ... hear the calling?  You can tell the Mrs that she (your old avatar) had to come back by popular demand  :79-  :97- 

And back to the original topic, I have a working 3802 board heading to Billk tomorrow, hopefully that will get him going again.   

Ah..that's great Tilt!  :89-  Good job!  :3-
K+ to you!

Tilt is the man!    :131-

Back by popular demand. Found her on another forum so not sure how legal it is to use/copy it but will leave it up for a few days for all that missed her :91-

Ian  In my personal opinion this is not good enough, I think everynow and then, Her Top should fall completely OFF .  :3- :3- :3- :3-

 :244- :244-  That's almost hypnotizing.   :3- :3-

Sorry Buzz  - I did not create her so I cant improve her  :96-

Thats what my Wife said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Some designs dont need improveing  :72- :97-g

I've hit the bloody Jackpot!!! lol
This is my "7777th" post!   :5-
                                               :136-
Now what do I do? Don't make any more posts? lol

TZ!
I just wanted to say that my game fuses are blowing
watching those things bounce around for joy!  :182-  :96-

I'd like to add that I've learned a lot over the years and it's all due to this bloody website!  :208-

Hotttt Damn Bunker is gone forever.  I just knew today would be my lucky day  :244- :244- :244- :244- :244- :244- :244-

I don't know if you got it fixed. I lost track of this topis. Yes the monitor is bad with this problem. Check the Raw B+ 4 Diodes and 2 caps 150 Mfd 250V.
The caps swell and blow the tops.

Thanks Benchtechbill. He ended up sending the monitor out to Ceronix for repair.

Stat :31-

Here is the resolve for those of you who may be interested in the outcome of this post:

Machine #1 - Problem - monitor blowing fuse.  I sent the monitor boards to Ceronix for out of warranty repair.  They repaired it for a $45.00 flat repair fee+ I paid shipping both ways.  The turn around time was fast, and now it works great. 

Machine #2 - Gray pixelated screen - Was determined that the power supply was the problem thanks to the troubleshooting expertise and extensive knowledge of Tilt!! 

Thank you to all who helped, and especially to Tilt for his extreme generosity, patience, and countless emails of help!!  Tilt is the man!!     

Awesome! I'm so glag one of our members could give you
some help in getting your machine up and running again! :89-
Tilt IS da man!!!  :3-

Glad you were able to get them working again  :3- :3-  You guys give me too much credit, I was just the cheerleader  :267- :72-

You weren't the cheerleader, you were the Professor!!  :214-