New Life Games Tech Forums

Got this in my PM today.
I decided to make a topic of it so more of our NLG members can benefit from it.>>>


Hey Stout,

I couldnt remember if its you or Captain Happy that is the wire harness guru
so IM sending this to both of you in hopes one of you guys can lead me in the right direction.

I have been wanting to change the flourescent lamps in all my games to LEDs
but have found that its about $70 per bulb to do it.  I have these under cabinet lights from pinball life

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1774&parent=247 (http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1774&parent=247)

for my pinball machine and noticed they run off of 12volts.
One red and one black wire in a molex connector as you can see in the picture on the website.   
I looked at the wiring for my toppers and they have four wires,
I am thinking two for the flourescent and two for the LED ring so I am wondering if
I can replace the molex connector on this kit with one like is on a topper and
plug that into the top power distribtion board in position J2 next to my topper.
Making sure to use pins 3 and 4 on the molex to get my 13 volts instead of 25v right?   
I can cut and splice longer wires in or I think I can get into the little blue box from the kit
and disconnect a couple wire nuts to lengthen the wires and add the new molex
but at $25 for two light tubes and a couple dollars worth of connectors and
such it may be worth a try to see if the white ones are bright enough.
Just need to know if Im going to burn anything up if I try it?
 
If I knew what I was doing with multimeter I think this question would
probably be answered already. Hope you can give me an answer.

Any idea on a part number and source for the molex connector? 
Im working on S2000 and IGame machines.


Thanks

cruisepl

Okay,
You're lucky I had an extra cold cathode light kit unopened and
around at home on a Sunday night cruisepl.... :97-

I took a multimeter and touched various points on the
power distribution board and found a source of 12Vdc for you.
Click on the photos below and study them
I removed the yellow pin and the pin w/the black ground wire from the cold cathode (CC) kit.
I spread the receptor pin tangs apart a little wider with the pointed tip of an Exacto knife so the
pin tangs would grab onto the plastic walls of the power distribution Molex socket housing.

You can see I used the top 2 female pins on the power distribution board.
Please do this with the power off!!!! :50- :50- :50-
I stick them in with the power on because I know how to use a multimeter... :96-

The other photo of the cold cathode lights sitting on top of the
door is to show you the location and position of the red power switch that comes with the kit.
If this were to be installed into a desktop computer cabinet, the red switch
would be in the "DOWN" position in order to close the circuit to allow
power to reach the cold cathode electronic ballast (blue box in civilian terms... :200- )
The rest of the extra wires that come with the cold cathode kit is
just extra stuff you don't need for what you want to do.
Just tie it all up neatly with some plastic tye wrap.  :89-

As far as get the 4-pin Molex connector that fits in the power distribution board - you have to:

1st: get a parts list of the IGT S2000 topbox
2nd: see what that particular part is
3rd: order the Molex housing and receptor pins from Mouser.com
4th: wait for them to come in.
5th: put it together and stick it the power distribution board!

I hope this helps you cruisepl!


Click on photos below to make them larger to see what I'm gabbing about...lol >>>

I found some CCFL 12" lighting kits for 9.95 on flea bay

Cool!

Would you be so kind as to provide us a link
or are you hoarding these for yourself?  :208- :97- :72-

I found this one after a quick search on ebay..... $9.49 including shipping

http://cgi.ebay.com/12-DUAL-WHITE-COLD-CATHODE-LIGHT-KIT-MOD-CASE-BRIGHT-/380281735477?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588a8ec935 (http://cgi.ebay.com/12-DUAL-WHITE-COLD-CATHODE-LIGHT-KIT-MOD-CASE-BRIGHT-/380281735477?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588a8ec935)

Good post SM!  :3-
That's the exact ones I use!  :89-

http://cgi.ebay.com/CCFL-Computer-Blue-light-tube-kit-12-inch-NEW-/390222715355?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adb1619db (http://cgi.ebay.com/CCFL-Computer-Blue-light-tube-kit-12-inch-NEW-/390222715355?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adb1619db)
Sorry to be a Late Louie but I have actually purchased these kits for other uses and they work really well. I think the link above is better (and cheaper). Stout, I guess we could get the 12V off the power distributor in the case? Maybe I will order a kit and put it in the Tabasco and take before and after pics.

I thought about changing it reho, but my topbox is huge...lol
I wonder what it would look like in the belly glass? Hmm...
Gotta find another 12Vdc source down there now... :97-

your VFD  LED display, buttons all have 13V. which is perfect for CCFL as long as you watch the current draw.

How about extending the wires to reach the belly glass and still using the power distribution in the topbox? There are three or four power sockets up there right?

Anything stopping me from putting two sets in a machine?  Im thinking one set for the top box and my topper, and the second set for the belly glass. Or since my machines are RT maybe one tube for belly, two for the top and one for the topper. How brite are these things?  Realistically I would like it a bit darker in the gameroom than it is now with 17 machines running all the time.

Thanks

Personally, I don't like the idea of connecting a belly glass ballast
all the way from the topbox power distribution board.
The wiring seems too long for me to be comfortable with.

Think of what's happening here - the wiring to the topbox power distribution
board is coming from the bottom of the machine.
Then you'd be running it back down around by the door hinge out to the belly glass area.
That's like climbing to the summit of Mt.Everest to get to the Base Camp... :72-
Anyways, that may cause too much current draw as Foster said earlier.
I'd much rather connect from a source of 12Vdc from somewhere nearer
to the belly door if I were to change that area out with a CC kit.

These cold cathode kits we're looking at, are not as bright
as F15-T8 fluorescent bulbs candlepower-wise.
A single cold cathode tube will be significantly dimmer and lower lit
than the standard lighting used in these machines.




 

I want to be clear here so I dont screw up any of my machines.

Would it be ok to run a two tube kit to my belly glass from a power source in the lower box and run a separate kit with one tube in the top box and one tube in my topper or do you think the topper is too long a run from the distribution box as welll? Or would I better off leaving the topper alone and running both tubes in a kit to the top box?  Will one tube put out enough candle power to light up the RT?

I have no clue...I've never tried it as I only have one S2000 -
I use the standard fluorescent lighting.
You're the pioneer!  :131-

Seriously, I think the power supply is already being strained
below by all the components being used in an S2000.
I have absolutely no proof of this however.
What I'm saying is pure conjecture...lol
In layman's terms : pure baloney!

So, like I said earlier - proceed at your own risk!
I tinker with my machines all the time and blow up stuff now and then
because I've hooked up something backwards when I shouldn't have...lol
It's good to have backup parts if you're going to go "where no man has gone before"

Can you disconnect the power for the fluorescent ballast and power a 110 to 12volt power supply?
That way you don't overload the 12 volt system of the slot.

If you're replacing your existing flourescent fixtures with ccl's that use less power then where is the risk of putting to much strain on the power supply? And running the wiring from the topbox to the belly door doesn't pose any kind of "distance" power loss or additional draw on the power supply for the simple fact that it's not a long enough run on the wiring to cause this. I don't know the amperage draw of these lights, but would guess a 18-24g wire would work just fine.  Try to avoid things like sharp bends, coiling the wire and pinch points between the supply and fixture. Other than that you shouldn't have any issues. If it's DC input just make sure you have the polarity right before you plug it in.

Absolutely you can do this. Other than the fact that the input to those ballasts is only 25v. You could go from the 110v supply on the power dist at the bottom of the machine though. A couple of my s2000 have 110v strips they used for plugging in player tracking equipment power supplies
Sorry, I should clarify. The input ballast voltage is 25v DC. You would have to drop it to 12v DC and it would be a pain in the a$$ compared to just using a 110v AC outlet in the base of the machine :30- :30-

Dropping the fluorescent power of 110Vac to a wallywart 25Vdc to 12Vdc
transformer that puts out 12Vdc would work... :89-
That can be solved easily by making a Molex connector
that matches the molex on the belly door for the ballast power lines.

I looked at on the box/packaging of the current draw on
the Logisys CC kit and it asks for 5.0mA of power.
The inverter needs 12Vdc to work.
The inverter then turns around and shoots out an Output Voltage
of 680Volts to the cold cathode tubes...!?!?
Is that right?
I didn't know these little tubes require that much voltage to light them up.

Check out the specs.
Click to enlarge if needed... >>>

It could be 6900v and it wouldn't matter. 1/2 amp is still 1/2 amp. Heat comes from power. 27" picture tubes ran on almost 30k volts, but there wasn't much power behind it. The 1/2 amp is a lot less than the current flourescents use so you'd actually be reducing the load on the power supply by converting :89-

I agree.. I've heard it's the Amps that kill ya...not the volts.  :50- :50- :50- :47-
I have no clue where to get a 25Vdc to 12Vdc transformer though...it's not common.
He'd might have to go with a 110Vac to 12Vdc transformer -
they're more readily available and cheaper I'd think.

Yep, I was always crappy on the math anyway, but converting the 25v DC to 12v Dc is tougher than "plug and go" so why would ya?

Not main power supply itself, I don't think, but if you're drawing the power for the new lights from a different source (the Netplex distribution board vs. the factory light bulb wiring), you're adding to the draw from the Netplex board.

CORRECTION: The label says 5.0mA To me that is not the same as .5A So it looks like it is really 1/2 MA (one half milliampere)

Yep, you're right, I read that wrong. Woulda been 500ma to be half amp. Those things don't use hardly any power at all

I applaud you for admitting a mistake cowboy...most guys think they're too *schmart*... :97-
You learned a couple things here today:
1) The correct amperage for these lites  :71-
and 2) You may need a better eye prescription!    :96-


( I can't believe said that....here...bean me on the head...  :7- :30-   :72- )

Damn it! Ihate it when that happens! I just had my eyes checked :30-

It not the strain on the PS that I would worry about.
I would be careful about how much current you pull through the traces on the motherboard.
The 13V, 25V and respective Grounds from the Power Dist Board or the door (both available there as well) comes from the main supply via the motherboard.
 

That's why I was thinking the aux 110v outlets that are prevelant in the bottom of the cabinets would be the best bet. Just plug and go.

I agree with you guys...I'd do a bypass by the motherboard and try to use
the existing ballast wiring already in place - just switch Molexes and walwarts PS's.

IGT by design has both the top box and topper Fluorescent light ballasts powered from the Power Dist Board.

I finished this little project tonight and wanted to share with all of you what I did. I had 3 goals in mind when I started

First I would like to reduce my electric bill.. As of tonight I have 17 machines running 24 hours a day. Most of my machines are IGT S2000 or IGames with toppers attached. I count 53 flourescent bulbs.
Second goal is to reduce some of the heat coming off the machines, I have already placed LEDs in all my buttons but wanted to reduce the heat a liitle more if I could
Last I wanted to reduce the amount of light coming off all the machines.

Bunker got me started and alot of you chimed in, for that I am thankful. I decided to try one machine as a test to see how things went before changing over all 17 machines. The project machine is a S2000 3 reel Wild Thing with a topper. Light kit is Logisys CCL 300mm white kit (2)

First step was to turn off the machine remove the flourescent bulbs then disconnect the ballasts for all the flourescent lamps..1 in the topper 1 in the top box 1 in the belly and 1 for the reels. Next I had to remove the yellow and black wires from the molex as Bunker described in reply 1

I decided to start at the top and work my way down. Placement of the CCL was dictated by the length of the wires coming out of the blue box (transformer of some sort I think) and going to each light. I placed the first transformer in the bottom portion of the topper and wire tied the light in place.

Here are pics of the box the kit came in. The kit can also be seen here
  http://cgi.ebay.com/12-DUAL-WHITE-COLD-CATHODE-LIGHT-KIT-MOD-CASE-BRIGHT-/380281735477?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588a8ec935

The second pic is the transformer and light in the topper

Next step was to place the light in the top box. Like I said before the wire length dictated how to mount the lights so I decided the best way would be to let the light hang vertically in the top box. The last step in the installation of the first kit was to take the yellow and black wires previously removed from the molex and plug them into the power distribution box in the top of the machine

Next I moved on to the lower half of the machine with a second light kit.  I put one light in place of the reel glass lamp and one in the belly. Then ran all the wires up to the power distribution box in the top of the machine.  The problem I ran into is that the wires between the lights and tranformer are short and I will have to remember to disconnect them before opening the belly glass door. Other than this little problem things came out pretty good.

The last thing to do was clean things up a little with some wire ties and velcro, replace the reels (sorry I left out the part about removing them to give me more room), replace the topper front and top glass then turn the machine on and hope it all works.  In reality I laid all the parts for both kits in the top box and plugged them in to make sure everything worked before I started. Anyway when I turned the machine back on there was no smoke, fire, funny smells or wierd noises so I guess I did it right.

Its hard to tell from the last pic but the amount of light given off by the four tubes is alot dimmer than the flourescents. They are alot cooler to touch also. Two of my overall goals have been met now its on to changing out the other machines to see if the third goal of lowering the electric bill can be met. 

I told you they were going to be a little dimmer.
They don't have as much "candlepower" as the standard fluorescent tubes.
However, you can't really tell and they do look good!

I have an idea for the short belly glass wires...when you get a chance...cut them and add about 6 inches of wire!
Tape them up good or use some shrink tubing and you won't
have to worry about pulling and breaking the wires when you open the belly door.

How in the world did you attach these tubes for the belly glass area?  :128- :129-
Plastic ties?

Or a few butt connectors would work well too. When I get done fooling with the remote control units coming from Hong Kong I might jump into these light replacements just for sh$ts and grins. Where did you end up taping for the power to these Cruisepl?

Im really happy with the way they turned out, the "candlepower" looks perfect in my opinion. Its dim but cast enough light to see without casting a bunch of light out into the room

I had thought about splicing in some longer wire, I even went out to the workshop and looked but did not have any 16 ga (I think) Im pretty sure I will get a spool and make the modiification when I do the rest of the machines

Tubes in belly glass are easy when I removed the flourescent tube there are a few little slots that I just wire tied the tube to.

I would think that the final cost-benefit analysis has got to be better money wise vs. the florescent tubes. Actually, the CCFL's  are the same thing, different approach.

lol...especially when you have "17 machines running 24 hours a day"   :72-

Check out the bottom pic in reply 31  I got power for both sets of CCLs from the power distribution box in the top of the machine.  My thinking was that since I disconnected four 25v ballasts for the flourescents I could run both CCL kits out of the top box without to much worry.

The middle row of molex connectors are all power related.
Far right is 12v and 25v coming in
next to that one you can see two black one red and one orange wire, this is the harness that runs the topper
next to that one you can see the yellow and black wires for the CCL tubes in the topper and top box
next is the yellow and black wires for the CCL tubes in the reel glass and belly

I definitely need to extend the wires when I do the other machines. It will make everything look alot cleaner and make the entire install easier.

I think you're doing an excellent job cruise!  :3- :244- :89-

Yeah you are,  :259- for inventivness

 :103- :103- :103- :103- :103-

cruisepl

just curious --- at the cost of retrofitting all the toppers and putting in LED light bulbs etc

did you do a cost anallysis to determine how long before you see a savings on your electric bill ??

I am not posting as a joke ..its a honest question ..

Rocket

I'd imagine you're not going to see too much energy savings as both are fluorescent lighting (the CCFL does waste less energy as heat, so there will be a small amount). The savings here will be in lowered heat in the machines, which should make components last longer.

my point was not to insult anybody --

but its pretty difficult to re--design a product once its been put into service !
that the cost effective nature comes into play BUYING COST SAVING PARTS ....

.. this concerns all items from slots to cars etc ..

the old saying well i purchased the diesel engine in my pick up truck because it goes longer than a tank of gasoline and pulls better going up hill with trailer  !!oh boy!!!

well that may be true !! but the option for the diesel engine when ordered at dealership was 4000.00 more than a gasoline engine ..

THATS WHEN THE COST EFFECTIVE NATURE COMES INTO PLAY!!
then when it comes to buying a starter for a diesel etc its 3xs the cost for diesel starter than a gasoline starter etc ..

catch my dirft ?

plus diesel fuel is  in most cases is more expensive than gasoline because of road tax etc

diesel in MASS. YESTERDAY AT PUMP
WAS $3.27 A GALLON OUCH ! -------PREM GAS AT PUMP WAS 3.10 A GALLON


modfied when we were kids --you aways rassed the guy who had his engine covered with chrome
and said does all that chrome make it go faster lol

$3.10 for premium! Holy crap! We're at $2.69 here :89-

 I had three goals in mind when I started thinking about the project.  A lower electric bill would be nice if that in fact does happen but with just one machine done its not going to make any difference. The CCFL did lower the amount of light coming off the machine and lowered the heat generated by the machine. Two out of three so far is good enough.

 Another reason to make the switch and I guess you could say this is sort of a cost analysis is that each kit contains two tubes. I purchased 2 kits to do one machine with shipping came to less than $15. The CCFL tubes will last 30,000 hours, thats three and a half years. How long does a standard flourescent lamp last? In the long run Ill save money by not replacing the flourescents. Around here the cost to replace a flourescent bulb is between $7 and $10 if the local Kmart has them. If not I have to go to an electrical supply place and pay alot more. Each machine has 3 or 4 flourescents in it. Savings is pretty clear to me here.  Next step is to purchase a larger number of kits and them shipped all at once which in turn brings the cost of each kit down even more. 

Once everything is done I will have to see about the electric bill.  Probably not going to make a big difference like brichter has said but I like the results of the first machine enough to go ahead with the rest of them. If I save some electric great, if not I will still save overall by not replacing bulbs when they burn out.

Yeah, but the diesel engine will go a LOT longer before you're pulling the heads off or the bottom end out, as well. Don't feel bad, your diesel is cheaper than our premium... Thanks to Feinstein and Pelosi.

Any news on the cost Savings?

 I just switched over all my IGames as well. It will probably be a while before I can say anything about saving on the electric bill but until then, remember that these CCFL kits are about $5.00 each and last over three years when they are constantly on. Each flourescent bulb costs at least as much as a kit and will burn out much much quicker. You dont have to worry about the ballast burning up and smelling up the house either.

I bought a Kill-A-Watt a couple of years ago, very handy device:

http://www.killawattplus.com/?gclid=CLm2x4P1-aUCFRhzgwodtVAXnw (http://www.killawattplus.com/?gclid=CLm2x4P1-aUCFRhzgwodtVAXnw)

You could figure out how much you will save with one of these.

I just read this thread and just want to add my $.02 about any cost savings. Power that you pay for from the electric company in measured in kilowatt hours. And you pay X amount for each unit. So let’s assume your cost is $.10 per Kwh. Of course that will vary by area, and needs to be factored in. But for this example , that means you will pay $0.10 for running a 100 watt bulb for 10 hours, or a 10 watt bulb for 100 hours. Each equals 1 kilowatt hour.

Most incandescent lights are not super efficient and a lot of the energy is wasted as heat. That is why a 60 watt ‘equivalent light’ compact fluorescent light may only actually use 13 watts, because it generates less heat (wasted energy). Fluorescent lights are more efficient, but still generate some heat and thus also waste energy. But not as much as incandescent lights.

Ok, so now lets make some assumptions. Keep in mind we are only talking about the slot machine lighting. We will also assume the machine is on 24/7. So if a slot machine currently has three 15 watt fluorescent bulbs, that means it is using 45 watts for the lights. 45 watts x 24 hours = 1080 watts per day, or just over 1 kilowatt hour. So it costs about $0.10 a day to light it up, or $36.50 a year.

Now, going by the specs on that CC tube posted earlier in the thread, it uses 5ma at 12v. Wattage is current times voltage. So .005 amp x 12 v = .06 watts. So 3 CC lamps would be using .18 watts. Running 24 hours would only be 4.3 watts. Since we are not anywhere near 1Kw, let’s multiply it by 365 days. That gives us 1569 watts in a year, or just about 1.5Kwh. So the yearly cost for CC tubes is .$0.15  vs  $36.5 for fluorescent.

But now we have to factor in payback. If the CC lamps cost about $5 each, the payback would be about 6 months (if they were running 24/7). The less time it is left on, the longer the payback. For example if the machine were only on 2 hours a day, the payback would be 6 years.

So while there is a savings in energy cost, any actual $ savings will depend on the current utility rate, the cost of the CC tubes and the amount of time the machine is on.

 :244- :244- :244- :244-

Poppo that's a great explanation.    I like Cruisepl would like to reduce the heat, brightness and cost of running the machine.   I am however someone of a purest and would like to keep the original parts and bulbs of the machine in working order.      I would be happy to keep everything intact and just disconnect bulbs and add the ccfl bulbs.

For instance in my reel touch - from day one i disconnected all bulbs -two 22W round and two long tubes  - for a total of 60 or 70 watts !  Just for the top box!!! -  so I put in a socket with one 13W compact fluorescent - does the job and much less power.

I agree, very good explanation Poppo K+ for that. With that explanation then I guess all three of my goals have been obtained (less heat, less brightness and less cost)

As far as being a purest Munch I did not take anything out of my machines except the bulbs. If I ever want to go back to regular bulbs or I sell a machine all I need to do is cut a few wire ties, remove the kits, reconnect the plugs to the ballasts and put the regular flourescents back in the machine. No wires were cut and nothing was removed from the machines when I did the installs. Its not a problem at all leaving everything intact like you want.

poppo  Your post on the cost of electricity was very interesting, but I have a couple of questions. If you change to the CC Lites you would  generate less heat, would that be enough less heat that the noisy fan could be disconnected? Boy this is worded bad but I hope you get the idea.  ( the fan noise bugs me)  S+ seemed to operate pretty good without a fan, does a S 2000 generate that much more heat? And if so, from where, the power supply?  I can't recall ever touching of a power supply to see if it gets hot.

I think that might be my next experiment, thermometers in two top box's, one with the fan on and the other without a fan.

Anyone reading this thread, may want to go read this one
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=10801.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=10801.0)

There are some new findings on the actual current draw of these tubes that make them less efficient than originally thought. In actuality, they use about 3.3 watts each. Still less than 15, but not nearly as low as initially thought.

To answer your question, I don't know how much cooler the cabinet would actually be. One can not just take three 15 watt bulbs (45 watts) and subtract three 3.3 watt CC tubes  (10 watts) and say that the 35 watts saved will ALL be heat. The CC tubes are not as bright, so some of that 35 watts is light. The rest of machine gets pretty toasty too, so I would say a fan may still be needed. However, there are some fans that can pull the same CFM but are quieter.

Buzz,
I don't run a fan in my s2000 - but it's only on maybe a couple of hours a day - max.
Why I would leave it on all day and night is beyond me...I wouldn't be able to afford the light bill...lol
Basically, the fan is only needed for live 24/7 floor operation.

I welcome the extra heat the s2000's seem to put out - warms up the game room really fast...lol
There's no hesitation on my part to punch out a hole on the backside of
the topbox and add a louvered vent to let out any heat into my game room...
I would do the same for an S+ if I had one at home.

 With 21 machines in my living room and all but 3 have fans, they sound like a airplane taking off. I think the Game Kings I will leave alone and disconnect the fans in the S 2000s  THANKS

yeah...you don't leave them on all the time do you?

Mark  My Son or I never play a slot machine. Unless someone comes over, we never turn them on. I might play poker on a Game King 1/2 hour a month at most.  I always liked playing with puzzles. a slot is a lot like that. I like working on them, watching 3, 4, or 5 reels spin around doesn't do much for me.  ( With 2924 members I'm sure making a lot of points with this post ) Sorry Folks I just thing were all a little retarded. I should have waited until New Years to post this and start the year out right.  :279- :279- :279-

That's what I thought really.
I very rarely play with the S2000 more than a couple of hrs at a time.
If I have it on Auto-play, I fall asleep watching it on the couch...
When  I wake up, the dog is sleeping on the floor next to me.  :97-

Ohhh man I play mine all the time.    I try for at least a 1/2 hour per day.   


I move from Hexbreaker to Davinci Diamonds to Bally Bonus Frenzy to my all time favorite ... my s+ Black Cherry.