New Life Games Tech Forums

I have some IGT S+ machines in my rec room, set to Canadian nickels, but there is a high rejection rate even with the pot turned all the way to minus (-).  I guess there is quite a varation in Canadian 5cent coins.

So my question is, can I modify the comparator to accept anything? This is for rec room use so I don't have to worry about slugs but I'd sure like the machines to be less fussy about nickels.  Any hints?

Thanks!

Mark

Take the harness off off the coin comparitor and take out the
coin comparitor unit and pull off the 2-pin connector with the gray wires off the top of it.
Flip the coin comparitor around and remove the 2 Phillips screws that secure the rake solenoid
and remove the solenoid and rake entirely.
Replace the coin comparitor back into the machine and
re-attach the coin comparitor harness.

The coins will fall straight through to the coin-in optics.
The coin-in optics is what gives your machine credits.
Perfectly acceptable for a home use machine.
If the rake is bent backwards in a casino environment however -
that would be instant grounds for somebody to get terminated.

http://www.youtube.com/v/y1Bm0cWN2h4?fs=1&hl=en_US (http://www.youtube.com/v/y1Bm0cWN2h4?fs=1&hl=en_US)

Thanks, will give that a shot right now!

Removed the solenoid/rake and all coins now pass into the hopper.  However, it's still not crediting the slightly different sized nickels  :103-   Any ideas?  I appreciate the help.

Mark

Yep...Bad coin-in optic boards....maybe.
Possibly a burnt LED transmitter or receiver optic.
There are 3 LEDs per board in there - 3 are transmitters and 3 are receiver optics.
Try jiggling the harness connected to the coin-in optics board?
Might be a bad connection really...
It's the harness with 6 orange wires and a red and a green wire.

Anything blocking the 3 holes where the optics are peering at each other through?
While you're checking the "encoder" board out...
See if it's an encoder board for a quarter rather than for nickels.
The nickels are not big enough to cover the 3 holes for all
three optics to pick it up as it falls through there.
You may have to get a smaller "encoder" that's designed for nickels.
Notice the encoder on the right has a guide while the other one
on the left is broken off to fit larger tokens.
Click to enlarge! >>>

The coin-in optics seem fine... In addition, I removed the solenoid/rake from 2 other machines and I'm having the same problem.  They all credit the similar nickels but not the slightly different ones.  The only real difference is the different nickels making it into the hopper instead of the coin tray at the bottom...  I can try it on a few more machines but it seems odd that every single one has bad optics... Any ideas?

Mark

Are you changing the coin with the slightly different sized coins in the coin-comparitor holder?
The coin comparitor sample coin must be the same as the coins your dropping into the slot.

Well no, then it would reject the newer nickels :)  It seems Canadian nickels have 2 *slightly* different sizes and the machine is being really fussy about it.  That's why I wanted to make the comparitor "dumb" -- so the machine would credit anything.

Thanks for the picture upload, the machines do have the smaller denomination encoder.  I'm pulling my hair out on how to make them less fussy!

Mark

The the coin sensitivity acceptance dial fully to the left. <<<<<
It should accept just about anything smaller than the sample coin.
In other words....it makes the coin-in comparability "dumber"... :97-
Click to enlarge photo...>>>

Sorry if I'm not being clear.. These are nickel machines and there is a nickel in the comparitor.  However, there is slight variation in Canadian nickels so I'm experiencing a 30% reject rate (approximately).  I'd like to have the machines credit anything I throw down them, to fix this problem.  Right now they are so fussy the 1% difference in nickel sizes causes rejection.

Yes, the dial is all the way to the left so you'd think the slight difference in coins would pass.. But nope.

Mark

 :103- :103-

just to toss this in he may have a 1.00 encoder in the coin drop not a nickel or quarter size one
which would simulate the same problem of coins skipping !!

what size is the black encoder you have ??  :103- :103- :103- :103-

it should be stamped on side what denomination etc

 buy the x-factor coin comp. then you can program to to take any coin you want .

gets pricy for several machines --

what are you going to do about hopper payouts ??

tossng in every size coin you have ??

leave it to a Canada coin person to do this ... :72- :72- :72- no stab just harmless humor

I don't mean I'm going to throw different coins in there -- only nickels.  The problem is that our nickels are a *tiny* biit different (depending on year) and I'd like the machine to accept both.  The hopper has no problem with the slight size difference.  The only problem I'm having is getting credits from both sizes of nickels.

Are you using the larger of the two sizes as the sample coin in your comparitor? From the previous posts it sounds like adjusting sensitivity down allows the comparitor to then accept slightly smaller coins so using the larger sample might get you through this

I think he's is using the larger size in the sample coin -
if he used the smaller one - the larger coin probably wouldn't fit through?

I agree with Rocket however - You need X-Factor coin comparators.
Your comparitor is the wrong one for what you're trying to accomplish.
Basically, the nickels are screwed up in Canada - they're NOT uniform.
maybe you should change to a quarter denomination perhaps?
Might be cheaper than buying a whole boatload of X-Factor coin comparators?

The only other thing I can think of trying is removing the Q2 diode from the
coin-in optics board but I don't know if the problem lies solely with the coin comparitor OR
the coin-in optics - unless you give us a performance through the coin-in Tests.

Do you know how to perform these coin-in Tests?
I would drop 20 nickels of each size in the Tests and see what the results are...
from there we might have a better answer for ya!

Lets start by verifying two things!   as Rocket has stated: see what denomination is written on the black encoder itself, the quarter one will have 25 cents and SBA stamped on them, the nickel encoder has 5 cents stamped on it. 

Since you removed the rake from the coin mech, then you have removed its whole purpose in life, it should accept any nickel that goes into it. the adjustment means nothing at this stage, when a valid coin is sensed the purpose of the coin mech. is to open the rake and allow that good coin to pass to the optics and establish credit on the machine and then direct it to the hopper or to the coin overflow chute and down to a waiting bucket located in the stand.

you should be able to remove the plug to the coin comparator and the nickels should go into the optics etc.  at this point all you have is a straight thru path that should not care about size or content or weight.  If coins are being rejected then your comparator has some type of mechanical defect or is missing some part. right now all you have is a straight thru path with no electronic input as to the output.

Jim
 

Jim,
If you remove the plug...wouldn't the un-energized rake - throw the coins dropped into the coin tray?

ADD: Sorry, I forgot the rake was removed....
With the coin comparator plug off everything should register credits that is smaller than the sample coin -
providing the coin encoder is the correct size.
However, I just pulled the rake off of mine, pulled the coin comparator harness from
the CC and the coins drop into the hopper - but I'm not registering credits either!?!

I know the coin-in optics is okay....It just worked before I pulled the harness.
In fact, when I put the coin comparator harness back on - it registered credits.
But because I have an american coin as a sample coin - it wouldn't register canadian coins.

   mark, is  q-2 or  q-4  still on your optic board?   

Good question...!
I will check them though right now.

Yep...The Q2's are still in it.
These are standard un-modified coin-in optics.
I'm also using SBA  .899-1.055   .25cent encoders.
I don't have any canadian nickels to try though.... :8-

that's the reason right there.   when we replaced the cc-16d's with IMONEX acceptors we had to remove Q-2 , Q-4 or the diode /555timer version.,  this corrected every problem we had with intermittent acceptance. The optics and the game function as advertised, no difference at all. 

I have another known set of coin-in optics WITHOUT the Q2's...
want me try it?

Thanks for the replies so far.. below are my results.  I don't think my coin-in optics are modified at all.  Although I'm a newbie to this stuff so I can't even tell how to get the board off the machine. :)

Larger nickel in comparitor: 20 larger nickels credited, 20 smaller nickels non-credited
Smaller nickel in comparitor: 20 smaller nickels credited, 20 larger non-credited

All fall into into the hopper because of the rake being removed. Larger nickels do not jamb when when a smaller one is in the comparitor. Comparitor turned all the way counter-clockwise ( - ).

Darn Canadian nickels..

Thanks for the results...I'm snipping off a Q2 as we speak... :72-

 :136- :wa :92-

BINGO!! I threw in a coin-in optic with the snipped off Q2 and
the coin comparitor harness removed...
This machine takes Canadian quarters even though I have
an American sample coin in the coin comparator!
( This coin-in optic boards will never see a live casino floor however...lol)

Cut your Q2's off man!  :97-

FYI>>> They're located on the board that the harness plugs into and
the Q2 is the tiny little diode right in between the 3 optics.
Snip it off with the point of a sharp Exacto knife or a pair of small shears.

Sorry to be a royal pain, how do I get the optic board off the machine and what do I snip off? :D :D

UPDATE:  Never mind, found the screws under the wiring connector. 

Going to give it a try now!

Mark

Mark,  I remove these components as a standard practice, never have ANY coin in problems.

I also use a standard Sp chip in all the games ( except for haywire, double wild etc.)  this way programming is simple. I use a Sp731. all tests can be preformed from the buttons, you can move forward and reverse thru the menu using the buttons and not have to use the jackpot reset key for anything.  really easy!!

what do I lose, faster count up speed on credits, tokenization,  perhaps, but for the ease of use of the 731 its a good trade off. besides, I have never been in a casino that used that feature. most people like putting in coins and hearing them clang out into the coin tray.

all that being said, if MarkC has the wrong encoder in the optic assembly he will still have intermittent acceptance.

Jim

SUCCESS!!!  Thank you very much! :3- :3- :3- :3- :3- :3- :3- :131- :131- :131- :131- :131- :131-

Removed the Q2 and now it will credit any nickel I throw at it, even American ones. I had a whole bag of "reject" nickels that now work fine.  I really appreciate the expert help.  Please let me know if/how I can return the favor.

Mark

Sure! Donate some of those reject nickels to the NLG website!  :208-

<Slight hijack>

Currently on my unmodified 3 coin machine, if I drop in a 4th coin, it falls through to the tray. If one removes the solenoid/rake, will the 4th coin go to credit or just drop into the hopper? I'm asking because I have been toying with an idea.  :79-

poppo: I just gave it a try. The extra coin(s) will drop into the hopper, since they have no choice where to go. They don't cause an extra credit, however.  Instead the machine spits out the extra coin(s) after the spin.  So it won't steal the extra money.


stayouttadabunker: I'm going to make a donation right now

Mark

Thanks. Not what I was hoping for, but saved me the touble of checking it myself.

Poppo,
Throw in 6 coins as fast as possible...see if the error code [23] pops up.
That means "too many excessive coins" and your chip presently does not support extra coins.
Stick in a SP1137 Montana credits chip?
If this is an s2000 machine - get an SB chip that supports all credits to the display instead?

I don't have anything modified. No matter how fast I drop them in, the extras just fall into the tray.

Exactly what chip is installed in your machine?
That may help us here - help YOU...lol

Haywire Deluxe
SP873
SS6418

SP873 is a Type 2 chip...
SP1137 w/Montana credits won't work.
You'd get an "Incompatible" type of error code on the display I'm afraid.

Sorry to hijack your hijack... The coin optics board on the S2000 looks very different.. practically flat except for a Q1 and Q2.. Is there a way to modify these boards also?

Another suggestion: just use an Imonex coin processor, no electricity required and it should take all you throw at it , even with slight variations. You will have to have to do the Q2 mod as indicated above if you do this. The only thing you lose is the ability to switch coins ever again unless you re attach Q2 and go back to a regular comparitor.

Or...have a back-up set of coin-in optic boards!  :72-

This will not work with a  S 2000  I don't remember exactly how I knew this BUT.  I just went in and with some paper blocked the rake open. leaving the wires going to the Comparator unpluged, dropped a quarter in and got a "Coin in Error"   The coin did go to the hopper, like with the rake open it had someplace else to go. It seems to me the CC has to send a pulse to the main board or some BS like that.  CRS strikes  again

Buzz you are correct the S2000 coin comparitor either toggles a coin in/good signal to high or low.
I am thinking it is high to low and back just like the coin in optics would when a coin blocks the optics.

I will run a test in the next few days to see which it is.

Update: I belieave it goes 0 to 1 but it happens so fast my meter can display it.

 :103- :103- :103- :103- :103- :103- :103- :103- :103-

After reading this entire thread from the get go ..

WHY NOT USE A THING CALLED COMMON SENSE ??

instead of ruining coin comp and bending back the rake or removing parts of it etc
all for a diff size Canada nickel to U.S nickel or any other nickel size coin !!

just buy 1000 quarter tokens and coin head if needed ?? and black plastic coin optic if needed ..
and .25 pinwheel for hopper if needed ..

IT WOULD BE LESS EXPENSIVE TO BUY  ALL THAT ABOVE IF NEEDED --THAN TO BUY A  X-FACTOR COIN COMP.

JUST  RUN QUARTER TOKENS -THAT WAY YOUR NOT TYING UP REAL MONEY IN HOPPER OF ONE OR MORE MACHINES !!

COMMON SENSE I FOUND IS NOT USED TO OFTEN ON >>SOME QUESTIONS <<<OR SOME ADVISE GIVEN ON THIS FORUM .

I OF COURSE DID NOT POST THIS TO START FIGHTS --JUST SOLVE A SIMPLE PROBLEM --THAT IS COST EFFECTIVE IN LONG RUN !!

Rocket

HAPPY TURKEY DAY TO ALL !!! :131- :131- :131-

lol...I had suggested that he switch to quarters but YOU'RE the one
who suggested (Reply #11) that he get an X-Factor CC...!!!
And I backed you up with a post shortly thereafter monsieur! ( Reply #14) :96-

Again, I agree with you however...change to quarters if it's just
for a rec room but he wants to use  screwed up Canadian nickels... :279-
He's not ruining the coin comparator or bending anything.
All he did was snip off a Q2 IC component from the coin-in optics board.

We were trying to help him achieve that  goal.
Not save him money.... :72-

let me clear up some facts about this modification and why  it came to be.   about 15 years ago when slots were making there way into the home market they often were shipped from the casino with no coin comparators in them. they were expensive back in the day and casinos kept them in house.(or they were sold overseas at a great profit) as you have found out in this thread the machine does interact with the coin comp., by removing ONE component on the optic board it removes that interaction. That's all it does!!!, as a by product of this it improves the acceptance of coins. by acceptance I mean that the coins that get to the optics will in fact generate a credit on the machine, pretty much to the tune of 99.99%. (providing that all the correct parts are in place)
 You can still use the cc16d, it will accept coins as it was designed, it will reject coins after the proper amount of coins have been credited, 2c 0r 3c etc. the machine will play as it always has, the only thing you will notice is an improvement of the coins that are credited-ed to the machine. ALL MACHINE FUNCTIONS REMAIN THE SAME--NOTHING IS AFFECTED AS FAR AS GAME PLAY IS CONCERNED.( AGAIN if your coin comp. is working as it should).
     the best replacement for the cc16d was a coin mech made by IMONEX. unlike its predecessors, it has no moving parts and requires no voltage to operate, strictly mechanical, a direct replacement, no modifications same physical size etc.  and they only cost 9.95. and they would accept coins sizes from .900 up to and including .984 tokens and yes it would accept a U.S. quarter. so you could see the advantage. very few jams,takes quarters and tokens, don't have to change sample coin, it was a win, win . 
     you can change back an forth between an  IMONEX and a cc16d  without having to do anything else.(even with Q-2 removed)                                       so for a cost of NOTHING  you can  improve the operation of your machine, If you are having these issues.

Hope this helps

Jim

Not everyone wants to run tokens. Maybe if he has friends over he wants them to use real money and doesn't mind if it pays out.

Personally, if I wanted to use tokens, I would have bought a toy slot machine.

WELL WHEN YOU HAVE A A COLLECTION OF 100 PLUS SLOTS AS  I HAVE ..

ITS ONLY COMMON SENSE TO USE TOKENS !!

BECAUSE I RUN EVERY MACHINE I HAVE EXCEPT IGT --I-GAMES ON 1.00 TOKENS ..THE I GAMES I RUN ON NICKEL TOKENS

I HAVE NO PROBLEMS PATTING MYSELF ON MY BACK AND SAY THAT I AM QUITE WELL OFF IN THE MONEY DEPARTMENT .. I  RETIRED BEFORE 50 YRS OLD .

 BUT TO USE REAL 1.00 IKE U.S. COINS IN A HOPPER OF A 1.00 UPRIGHT  OR SLANT TOP MACHINE -WHICH SHOULD HAVE
 400 TOKENS OR REAL COINS  AS A RULE ..

 I WOULD BE TYING UP  TWENTY THOUSAND BUCKS OF REAL COIN MONEY ON JUST 50 SLOTS ALONE .

>>>>>>IS THAT COMMON SENSE <<<<<<?? >>>>>>>>>I THINK NOT <<<<
PLUS REAL COINS HAVE A HABIT OF DOING A DISAPEARING ACT OVER TIME EVEN IF NICKELS OR QUARTERS IN MACHINE .


75% PLUS CASINO'S RUN THERE OWN TOKEN DESIGN --I GUESS WHEN YOUR AT A CASINO USING THERE TOKENS YOUR PLAYING A TOY SLOT ?? .

1.00 TOKEN OR COIN MACHINES CAN BE PURCASED LESS FROM THE GET GO!!AND YOU WLL HAVE LESS COIN JAMS  ON LARGER SIZE COINS --THATS A FACT ..

SO IF HE WANTS TO PLAY REAL COIN AND PAYOUT REAL COIN HE BETTER HAVE A GAMING LIC. BECAUSE THAT IS  AGAINST THE
LAW TO HAVE A PLAY & PAY SLOTMACHINE  WITH REAL MONEY  IN YOUR HOME ..

well i guess what i posted ..made no common sense to one member ?

plus  to say when casnio's  ran coin they all ran real coin ??? get real !!

you must of lived a sheltered  casino life . because i also collect casino tokens of all denomiations nickel --quarter -1.00 etc

I  have hundreds of them from west coast to the east coast .. all tokens
not real coin currency .. so i guess those were all toy casnio's lol

Chill dude.  :81- You are the one who is accusing people of not using common sense just because they want to use their machine as it was designed.

I personally don't care how many tokens you have collected. I spent enough time in Vegas to know that they did not use them there. So your 75% number got pulled out of the air or somewhere else.

POPPO,
I am chilled as chilled can be ..

I just find it very amusing that you honestly think casino's dont use tokens ?

also that whatever casino or casino's you went to never had tokens ??

its not a number pulled out of the air !!  list your casino's you visited and  I bet I have  tokens from it .

I am not accusing  anyone of not having common sense .. but if you think using tokens makes the machine a toy??

then more than half the members of NEW LIFE GAMES  are using toys if they run tokens ..


as far as the begining of this thread I offered my advise to help out the member .. which I do daily ..


you were the one who made reference to me about THE MEMBER USING REAL MONEY COIN & PAYING OUT IN REAL MONEY COIN .

QUOTE FROM POPPO: that if i were going to run tokens I  would of purchased a toy .

I hate to ask your opinion of TITO ?? :72- :72- :72- :72- :72- :72-

I think I will refrain from posting on this topic --its become to comical for me .. my stomach hurts from laughing so hard

HAPPY HOLIDAYS  ---- AGAIN &  ESPECIALLY >>TO CACTUS JACK << ON IS TWO NEW BABY TWINS boy & girl !
god bless you and family !! C.J. !!

 :279- What part of going to Vegas for decades did you miss? The only tokens were the ones you could win out of the special machines (before they started pulling those out). BTW, I have a collection of those, so having a casino token does not necessarily mean the casinos used them in the machines. I never said ALL casinos use real coins. But your 75% token number seems to be a guess at best. With about 200K slot machines in Vegas, I seriously doubt your number. If you can back it up with a valid link, by all means do so.

Have you ever actually been to Vegas?  I'm assuming not, since if you had, you would know they used real coins for the last few decades (maybe more), at least until going to TITO.

I'm not going list the hundreds or more casinos I've been to there. But whatever. If you want to believe people who want to use real coins instead of tokens have no common sense, so be it. <shrug>



I hate it, and I'm glad I left just as they were implementing it.

Before TITO, Vegas Machines were All Real Coin for Quarters, Nickels, Dimes and Pennies, and of Course before that there was the Silver Dollar machines.
Denominations of $1 and above were ALL TOKENS before they changed to TITO.

Have a Safe and Blessed Thanksgiving Everyone!

Joe

Are the small nickels the ones not giving credits ?  If so, unfold the optics and look on the inside of the black plastic encoder. If it does not say  " 5c " that could mean the small nickels cant quite be seen  by the optics. Get a 5c encoder or shim the current one to direct both sizes  in front of the optics.   If both sizes of coin fail to give a credit, then the encoder is so big the coin is wiggling like a politician in a public restroom trying not to be seen.

Good description Gordy! K+ to you.