New Life Games Tech Forums

Was testing hoppers and one would jam every time with a coin under the knife. Put in a new knife,shelf wheel, coin deflector, and hopper board. When the bowl is removed and the knife reset coins exit the hopper very smoothly when done manually.  Put the bowl back on, get a payout on the machine, and within  3 seconds there is a jam and a coin is under the knife [ IGT Plastic  70-0546-00 ]  No coin ever comes out. The coin wiper and hopper optic  appear in the correct position and offer no significant resistance. The pinwheel appears normal yet I only glanced at it. The denomination is correct.  Any ideas ?  Thanks       

have you tried hopper test mode? I had a couple do this to me and it ended up being a motor problem. The grease in the gearbox had dried up and the gearbox wouldn't turn easily enough so I got the hopper jam error. Another time I had a bent motor shaft that caused one to fail to the same error code

gordy  Sometimes if you have a large coin pin wheel and you are using small coins, as the coin is going up the knife the pin wheel will force the coin behind the knife ( most times breaking the tip of the knife )

Just checked.  It is a small coin , 14 pin, pinwheel in good shape. The hopper is very lightly used.

At work, we suspend the ends of the knife and put a weight onto the
middle of it and let it sit on a bench for like about a week.
They slowly memorize the bend at room temperature and when they're
re-installed - they work good for a long time.

Run the top of the knife upside on some sandpaper on a bench to flatten the top of the knife.
Then with a very sharp Exacto knife, trim the front of the knife where it contacts the
shelf wheel flush and perpendicular to the wheel...

Make sure there are no rounded edges that give any coins a chance to squeeze
through to force out the knife away from the pinwheel.

Once you have the knife back in order and re-adjusted with the two screws
and stiffener plate, you outta be back in business!
Oh by the way, make sure the stiffener plate isn't bent away from the wheel also...

Gordy, the knife not laying flat on the pinwheel is what usually causes that. any portion of the knife that comes in contact with the pinwheel has to be touching it. NO GAPS at all.  the coin plate that the knife rests on could cause this.  what happens when you test the hopper manually with the bowl on. you can turn the knob on the back of the motor to get it to move the wheel and observe what happens.  put three quarters on the shelf wheel on the top ready to be put onto the knife and see what happens.  you could apply 24 vdc directly to the motor and test it out of the machine.

Jim

 :258-Gotta post this somewhere.  Pin wheel and shelf wheel from a S 2000 won't fit on a S+ hopper. The center hole is to small !!!!!!!!!!

Good info to know Buzz!

I would check the coin in your hopper for a coin that is smaller than the other coins, we used to have nickel machines and when they got a dime in them they would do that very same thing, even with a new knife, the pins on the pinwheel would push the smaller coin right behind the knife.

I try a different  handfull of quarters every time. It never pays even one coin. Changed the pinwheel . Bent the hold plate just a bit to hold another new knife tighter against the pinwheel and make sure there were no gaps anywhere where the knife touches. Came up with a brilliant idea that the screws that go through the agitator had become stripped at the end and were not holding the shelf wheel real tight. This would allow a coin to lift the shelf wheel and get under the knife. Replaced all three screws [ a couple were stripped a little ] and got a tighter fit. Same frustrating result !!   Tried putting 3 coins at the top , put the bowl back on and turned the little gear to start the pinwheel advancing. The coins came out smoothly. Put it into the machine and a jam occurs. Have another that does the same only it pays one coin most times. Wonder if the same slot mechanic in a casino set these aside or caused this condition to test  us all.If I knew how to apply 24 volts to it maybe I could watch the carnage develop.

 gordy   Just a guess, are you sure you have a quarter shelf whell and not a nickel. I don't think it would make a difference "but"

Yes, I sell them. The coins climb as they should. Even changed the shelf wheel.

The tip of the knife should just barely touch the shelf and
lay flat against the pinwheel.
If it's in any other position...the coins fall off or jam up under the knife.
Are your hopper optics the "U" or the lever-style?

The tip of the knife is in the proper position - no gaps.  The optic has that little arm and it moves freely when I flick it with my finger and when I manually make coins come out.

I wonder if you have the wrong shelf installed?
It shouldn't be wider than the coin you're using.
Also, I beleive that when a coin pushes against the lever roller, the roller should only
contact the top quarter of the coin and raise the lever roller up to
the point which will allow a coin to slip under it.

Also, the knife.
It should be flat against the pinwheel.
You should NOT be able to slip a piece of paper between the knife and the pinwheel.
If a piece of paper can get between the knife and the pinwheel...so can a quarter.
The paper will act as the wedge then a quarter will get behind it and
force the knife away from the pinwheel wall.

It's a well known fact that people love to stuff little bits of paper from the coin rolls
into the slot along with the coins to try and get an extra credit.
I never works but they try it anyways! lol

Do you have any small round pieces of paper in the hopper bowl?
Also, human hair is an excellent knife "wedge" too.
Plus people scratch their heads all the time when playing these games.
Human hair will jam up an S+ hopper just like a piece of paper.
We find lots of hair in the bottom of hoppers all the time at work.

Paper and hair will sit right behind the bottom of the pinwheel -
waiting for their chance in life to come up
and blend with the lifting coins to work their magic of
making a machine light up with hopper error codes! lol

Gordy .. are you using the aftermarket shelfwheel? If not try one.

Yes, thank you, have tried both types of  shelf wheels, 3 new 70-0546-00 knives, and 3 pinwheels. Gotta think someone out there has seen this one. For 30 yrs correcting a jam has not been tough, but this one is !  Manually all is good.   In a machine , 2 coins go under the knife in 2 seconds. Manny other hoppers tested OK in this machine [ a Vision ] but these two have the same problem. Probably something stupid but right now I am the MAIN STUPE !  Gordy

Did ya check the gearboxes in hopper test mode like I mentioned earlier? Or maybe just. swap the motor and gearbox out with a known good one.

Sombody asked earlier if you tried the hopper test. Did you, so you can watch it? I might go so far as to take a video of it and then play it back in slow motion. Not sure how much different a S2000 hopper is from a S+ but there is just enough room on a S+ between the bowl and the knife, etc. to see in there to watch what is happenng.

In some cases, when I have had the point of the knife break I have had to either change the pinwheel to one with less pins or increase the diameter of the shelfwheel.

What I had noticed is that the pin on the pinwheel would force/grab the coin and press it down onto the knife breaking the point of it. Of course making sure that the wiper knife would only allow one coin to freely slide under it.

Just wondering what would happen if you tried nickels in the hopper if the results would be the same.


EDIT: You mentioned "The optic has that little arm and it moves freely when I flick it with my finger". If you are not selling these hoppers to casinos why not just get rid of it and mount the coin out optic to the top of the hopper.

 poppo   Different motor and different electrical connection ( plug ) other than those two things every thing else looks the same. The only parts I've tried to interchange are the pin and shelf wheels. ( they don't interchange )

Gordy You can remove the bowl from the hopper, install the hopper in a machine and do a hopper test With a few coins on the upper wheel you will see whats going on. I had this same problem and even tried a solid steel knife I got the same results as you are. From what I could see was as the coin was rolling up the knife the lug on the pin wheel would hit the coin and drive it straight down behind the knife. I still have this hopper, I am thinking of taking a old knife and grinding a sharper angle of lift and maybe the coin will get higher before the pin wheel lug can hit it. You ask your self why do we need to redesign the knife " I don't know " I do know like you nothing worked.

Call off the Dogs !  PROBLEMS [TWO OF THEM] SOLVED  !!     Removed the big 5" X 10" coin deflector from the bowl. so that the action at the top of the pinwheel could be seen . Finally learned to do a hopper test. The pin wheel was running backwards. That's how the 2 coins were getting behind the knife. Reversed the leads on the motor. Now OK Big welt on the top of my forehead from hitting myself. This is as embarrassing as the 2 maggots who were caught making love in dead Earnest !       The other one was mechanical. It was the coin optic sticking out not even 1/16 " into the coin flow and driving the coin down onto and behind the knife.Turns out the coin optic has some play in how it mounts.  You almost have to feel it because it can hardly be seen when it  enters the coin flow.     Many thanks to all who helped with lots of great ideas.  Gordy       

Now that is one way to stack the odds even more in favor of the house - take the money from both ends.  :72-  Glad you got it fixed.  :244-

"Motor running backwards".
That's a first! lol  :105-  :72-

The hopper brakes didn't bust?
Are you getting [3100]?

Bunker I'm not sure a S 2000 hopper has a brake like a S+ You can turn the small white knob that's on the back of motor and it will turn the pin wheel without releasing a brake.  :103- :103-

No 3100, no brakes, but I did notice the whole machine started to slowly move backwards about 7 feet.

They did put holes in the bottom of the machines for anchor bolts to keep them from backing up 7 feet. I have extra ones!

Gordy,
You have the scariest machine in the world....

If the Grand Canyon was 3 feet behind some of my machine I would like for them to walk 7 feet backwards.  CDS comes to mind.  :279- :279- :279-

 :266- (temporarily)
Did you ever get a hold of raz410 on those CDS's Buzz?
I know he was good with them?

Gordy,
Seeing that the motor was running backwards must of surprised you... :96-

it sounds to me like your pin wheel might be warped i would try a different one and if you look under i/o tests there is a hopper test mode

It was nice of you to offer suggestions, Brian, but Gordy solved this issue back in January (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=11072.msg96322#msg96322).  I suspect you didn't see the other pages of the thread.

Welcome to the site!

 :238-