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The door is not open (LOL), replaced the door optics, they work....  Just wanted to get that out of the way  :5-  

I am about to turn this thing into parts.... Its a DBL Red/White/Blue that I got in a lot.  It is missing the upper glass, had a bad coin optic (Replaced), a bad MPU board (Replaced) and the DBV won't cycle....  I replaced the battery on the new board, cleared it with the clear chip (During the clear it did not go to "2...0" when I turned the reset key, so I just pushed the reset button until it restarted and spun the reels).  Now it just sits with the lower candle flashing fast and a zero in coins paid.  I open and close the door, reels spin, then back to that....  I am about to gut it!!!  :37-  :37-  :37-  Any insight????  

Thanks...  If I do save it, I have to figure out the DBV, replace the upper glass, and convert it from $1 to .25cents (Already swapped the coin optic and cc)(Need hopper disc, coin head)


It does have the cool scrolling "This machine accepts $1 $5 $10 $etc..." LED decal across the front, which works...

This part is probably easy. Bad BV power supply or wiring. The BV should cycle as long as it has power.

How do you know the door optics work? They may work but may be misaligned. The symptoms say the door is open.

Seems easy, yea...  I swapped in two other power supplys, no go on the BV...will check wiring if I get the machine up.  I unmounted the door optic, semi closed door, and held it to the machine side optic...so I can tell the optics are speaking..  Thx

Did you try keep pressing the self test button to run throught the complete set of tests? I seem to recall having a similar issue where it was 'stuck' until I did that.

Just went into my 20 degree garage and cleared the board again (10th time I think), no luck...  When I open and shut the door the led coin paid goes blank, reels DON'T spin, and back to fast lower candle flash with a "0" in Coins Paid and "Insert coin" light solid.   :37-  :37- :37-  :37-  :37-  :37-  :37- :37-  :37-  :37-

quote author=rilaw link=topic=11453.msg99357#msg99357 date=1297216868]
Just went into my 20 degree garage and cleared the board again...blah, blah, blah...
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure this has something to do with it... :97-
Click on photo to enlarge if needed! >>>

LOL.... I was streaching it a tad, its actually 34 to be exact (19.6 outside)  :200-
 I have eight slots out there right now (Under construction), two of the other S+'s work, this one and a DBL Diamond won't clear properly.  The other two cleared after a battery change fine, "By the book", these two bastards won't, arrr....   :5-

Okay,
Not now but when it's warmer in the garage...lol   Go and swap the MPU and
chips from a known working board into the problem machine and see if you get anywhere.
Don't work on machine under stress...remember, this is JUST a hobby!

Try to work on one machine at a time and work the crap out of it until you get it to your liking.
Swapping parts is always best.
At some point you end up with a small pile of junk.
If the mere fact that a machine doesn't go to a "2...0" causes you to throw out
machines out the backdoor - then at least wait until I can back up a truck to your place!  :72-

LOL, its ok, I'm not stressed, just irritated..  Doh, no idea why I did not think of swapping in a board from one of the working ones,  :279- Thanks, will do another day.  The only thing in common with these two is that they had battery leakage that got into the motherboard in the bottom of the cabinet.  I cleaned out what I could and did not see any visible damage, but still wonder.  As for "throwing it out", I actually saved it from going to the landfill along with the other hundreds of good and semi good machines that filled the tractor trailers heading for the dump.  Wish I could have saved more...  :8-  Really happy I saved my WMS "X Factor", that took approx 10min to fix and its really cool...

When I use a clear123 I do not have to turn the reset key .....Put in the clear chip, turn on machine, push the reset and it count up and then counts up again. Turn off and replace chip???

Per the IGT "Ram Clear Instructions" after you pull the clear chip, reinstall the game chip, and install the board and clear the 61, its just a test sequence I think...  So in other words, it won't go through the test sequence I guess...

I think this may be a clue. Any battery residue can cause all sorts of intermittent issues, especially is it's hidden between IC legs.

OK Put in clear chip, turn on machine and wait 30 seconds or so, press reset button machine counts up two times and stops. Turn off machine put game chip back in and turn on. You should get a 61, press the reset till you get a ding and 61-1. Close the door and turn the reset key. Game should initilize, reel spin and be ready to accept coin.

If no you probably have an optic issue

No ic chips on the motherboard (The board mounted in the bottom of the case, not the MPU board).  There is a plastic protector over the board which gives some protection.  I vacuumed up all visible battery discharge and did not reuse the original MPU due to crap in ic legs etc...  Thx

He did say:
"I open and close the door, reels spin, then back to that....  "
So it would appear the optics are working.

Thanks, but have done that 10+ times now....  I also tried unplugging the door optics and hardwired the connectors together, same freakin result....  Something is screwy...  I have also swapped optics from a known working machine and vice versa, ziltch....





Edited to fix a broken quote tag -KN

The EEPROM is mounted on the motherboard and if there is a communication problem with it, it can cause a problem. However, you would most likely get a 65_0. It's easy enough to swap out the motherboard just to be sure.

Umm...  I was under the impression the "motherboard" was this:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=320649953879&si=ZFYbF1U8UcBo11QvYS275e2de68%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

And this is the "MPU" with the eeproms:  http://cgi.ebay.com/IGT-SLOT-MACHINE-16-MEG-MPU-BOARD-COVER-/140489277978?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b5d0421a

(Sorry for the links, I have no pics)

So, in others words, Not really easy to swap out the motherboard, but real easy to swap out the MPU.. 

That is  an S-plus motherboard and it has a small chip on it to the left

The MPU has EPROMS and the CMOS. The motherboard has the EEPROM (circled below). There are only a couple of screws holding it in. Of course you have to remove the connectors, but it really only takes a few minutes.

While you are looking at the motherboard...This connector has known problems of over heating. Will not cause this problem but look at it while you are there :88-

Just noticed you used a picture of a 16Mhz MPU :103- Do you have a 16Mhz MPU or 10Mhz. Could be a chip speed issue :89-

Did you try swapping MPU boards yet?  I would try these steps in order:

Make sure all harness connections to the motherboard and on the door, etc. are firmly seated and in good condition.
Make sure the infamous power harness connection to the motherboard is not burned or oxidized.
Then:
Swap SP and SS chips for known good ones from another game (theme doesn't matter) and see if you can clear the errors (without using a clear chip).
If that doesn't work, try a full clear and use the same known good replacement SP and SS chips. (Testing to see if your SP or SS chip(s) is/are damaged.)

If unsuccessful, swap the MPU board with a known good unit and try again.
If unsuccessful, swap BOTH the motherboard and the MPU boards with known good units.

Just my 2¢

Stat :31-

Not yet (too cold and late), maybe tomorrow...  I will also try the rest of your ideas.  Thanks!  Fingers will be crossed, its prob something stupid I missed..

Good point. He never said what speed board he has. Rilaw, if you have a 16MHz board, you should also check to be sure that you're running a 16MHz SP chip in addition to checking the speed of the chips.

And to think I passed up on the chance of all this fun your having with those machines.  Im still upset with my self for not rescueing some of those machines too.  Got some nice stools though. Well I glad to hear that one was and easy fix.   Let me know when you want me to take it off your hands from frustration.   :103-

All 10MHz boards, sry....  The ebay link was just a quick ref..

What chips are you using? just so we know....

Actually four were mostly "easy fixes" (2 S+, 1 Wms "X Factor", 1 Sigma "Treasure Wheel")  I also just cleared the ram on a Bally Gamemaker, seems to work, just has a few issues I will have to address (Its next on my list, lol)  I have a nice VLC I may be dumping  :5- AKA Boat Anchor  I like the stools too, no idea why I took six though, lol  All lined up in my basement at the moment...

If you mean the "Clear chips", its a set I bought from a member here.  They worked perfect in two machines..  Ram clear and BV chip

No...Sp and SS chip numbers

I would probably try putting the questionable MPUs in a good machine first. If these other machines have multiple problems, putting in a known good MPU (and still not have it work)  may not rule out the MPU still being bad.

****************SOLVED********************  :3-  :3-  :3-

Looks like I have a few MPU boards with issues.  What are the chances I try three untested boards in this thing and they all did not work??  Well, I'm going to try switching chips and see if it was just the chip, then I have to dig through the rest of my boards to see whats good and whats not. 

Thank You again to all that threw in their vast knowledge!   :244-  :244-  :244-

Now I will look into the DOA BV and then see who has the upper glass, coin head, and hopper disc.....

*****Spoke to soon****

OK, I just tried six, count um, six other boards.  I installed a battery on each, cleared with my 512 Clear chip, blah blah...  Back to square one  :103-  There is no way all these boards are bad.   I am starting to think the clear chip is the culprit?  If i put any of these boards in my working S+, same result..."0" in "coins paid" and fast lower candle flash.  This happened on both of the non-working S+'s....  :5-

Also....I tried this on one board....replaced the battery and did not use the clear chip.... I cleared all the codes and ended up with the same result as if I had used the clear chip????

Ok, before someone else says it - put that clear chip away! The only time you should need it is if you get stuck in a 61 loop.

That said, put a known good game and reel chip in one of the boards and try it in the good machine. You should get a few standard errors (65_x etc.) and then it should work. Oh, BTW are you sure the EPROM jumpers are in the right position for the size chips you are using? Just compare them to the board that works.

To test the boards, use a known working machine, attempt to get each board up and running, and then if the board works label it as good and move on to the next one.  You're going to frustrate yourself if you test boards on a machine that is known to have problems.   :71-

THEN, once you have known good boards, use one in the problem child machine.

Ok, that worked.... Seems the boards aree good, and I have a butt load of bad eeproms??  I just tried a bunch of other chip sets, none seem to work...

Again check the size of the reel eproms. If they are 'backups' they may have been burned to 27C512 chips where the originals are 27C64. So the jumper will need to be in the right spot depending on the chip used. But they could be bad. Someone may have plugged them in backward or something.

For the record, standard SP chips are 512k, and standard SS chips are 64k. You can use 512k chips for SS chips as long as the 64k of data are burned at offset 0xC000 (page 7 of 8). No jumper settings need to be changed for this to work. The jumpers would be changed if you had an older 256k SP chip.

Maybe that is what I was thinking about. I just recall a thread where someone changed some jumpers because their SET chip instructions told them to, and then it honked something up because the chip size did not match the jumper setting.

Also I've never used the offset method for reel chips. I use the duplicate copy in all banks method. This way I know that no matter what bank is addressed, it will always work. So I was not sure just what affect the reel chip jumper has (if any) vs chip size.

That's actually a very good question you brought up Poppo!

My guess is that is has to do with which legs are going to
get certain power voltages applied to them?
I'll leave it up to the chip experts.
I'm pretty sure the answer could be found if one were to compare
specification sheets between the two devices?>>>

http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2388.pdf (http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2388.pdf)

http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2387.pdf (http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2387.pdf)

On the S+ reel chip, the jumper selects either A14 or +5v going to pin 27 of the ROM/EPROM. On a 2764 (8K) EPROM pin 27 is the PGM pin and not used for addressing and A13 pin 26 is not used on a 2764 chip. On a 27512 (64k) pin 27 is the A14 address pin. If the jumper is set to +5v (and since pin 1 - the A15 line is already tied to +5v) it is in effect 'hardwiring' the addresses to one bank (along with A13). That is why an offset is needed if using a 27512. If the jumper is set to A14, that means the signal may be high or low (I don't know). Since I make copies into all 8 banks when I use a 27512, it does not matter since an 'active' bank would always be selected regardless of the state of A14.

Now, what does this mean?  :5- The only problem I can see is if the chips are 27512 AND the offset method was used to burn them AND the jumper is set to A14 and not +5v. This 'could' cause an empty bank to be selected if A14 is low and not high. But a 2764 factory ROM would work regardless of the jumper position

However, since pin 27 on a 2764 (EPROM) is the PGM pin, I believe the jumper would always set to the +5V position and it was only put there for possible future use if the reel chips got larger and they eventually went to 27256 chips which would use the A14 line.

So, most likely he just has a bunch of bad chips that may have been plugged in backward at some point. Hey, I've even done it.  :25-

Wow, indepth jumper coverage, lol.  Thanks guys :3- The jumpers seem to be the same on every board I have.  I have about twenty boards.  I took them from a warehouse that was clearing out, there were hundreds stacked on pallets, so I just figured they were slot pulls.  A few still have the security tape across all three eeproms so i doubt these chips were all installed backwards etc.  I wonder if these were all boards with problems, and that's why they were pulled?  Will never know..

Ok, now that we got the board mystery pretty much resolved. Does the machine work with a good board, or does it still have other problems?

I'd like to add that casino techs probably never switch those jumpers because
they use the correct sized OEM eprom devices obtained from IGT directly in the first place.
It's us homeowners that like to screw around with these things... :72-

The machine worked fine (Ignoring dead BV) with a good board with known working chips.

Great. You may want to try putting those BV power supplies in a good machine. Another member had replaced his bad one, but the replacement was bad too. So you may have several bad ones. As noted earlier, as long as the BV has power it will at least cycle on power up.

Until I can get a working MPU into the slot (Without using chips from another good machine), the BV is on the back burner... Thx..  I figured that with the ps...

**Update**

I spent the day swapping out the chips from every spare board I had into a known good MPU.  Taa Daa..... One, count it, One set of chips worked!  No clue what game it is, no markings on the chips.  So I was dealing with a crap load of bad eproms.  Since my DBL R/W/B machine was in pieces (MPU worked, but I could not coin up because no coin head, and trying to rig a $1 setup to use .25 was a no go), I used the board in my Triple Diamond, it works fine except for the BV, figures...(This one has power)..  

Thanks again guys!

BTW.. I originally cleared the boards I was using because of the 61 loop.  Everything I was dealing with had been sitting for years with loooooooooong dead batteries, so yes I cleared some a few times, but the original clear was due to a battery change... Just wanted to "clear" that up)...  :5-

Great, sounds like you've made some good progress!   :3- :3- :3-

Even without labels on the chips, you can determine which SP and SS chips they are when it's in the machine by following these instructions:
http://www.newlifegames.net/spset/SPSS.htm (http://www.newlifegames.net/spset/SPSS.htm)

Cool, Thanks...  Will try to check tomorrow...