New Life Games Tech Forums

How to use IGT S+ game kits in an IGT S2000

(Information gathered from this thread (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=11316.0), with kudos to Brianzz, Buzz, coorslight115, Foster, Ohio Gaming, r273, StatFreak, and stayouttadabunker for providing valuable information and pictures to make this post possible.)

Most any typical S+ game kit and chips can be used in an S2000 (except for tournament chips).  In order to use your S+ kit in an S2000 game, you'll need:

- S2000 base chip SB001000

- Your S+ glass, reel strips, and SS chip

Note: there may be a speed limitation in that SS EPROMs that are not fast enough may cause problems with proper operation in an S2000 machine.  No permanent damage will occur, but the game may not behave correctly or could potentially lock up if too slow of a chip is used.

A 27C64 at 120ns (or faster) will work with older S2000 GMEs that are 4 meg.

A 27C64 at 100ns (or faster) will work with newer S2000 GMEs that are 8 meg.


For the older 4MB GMEs, that means the number must be 120 or less (since 1 nanosecond is faster than 2 nanoseconds.  90 nanoseconds is faster than 120 nanoseconds).  To determine the chip speed, look at the markings on the chip (under the paper label) -- the last part of the number is the speed.  For example, 27c64 120 would be 120ns.  27c64 100 would be 100ns.  27c64 200 would be 200ns (and likely too slow to use, although some members have reported success using 200ns SS chips).

Warning: ALWAYS ensure that the machine power is OFF when removing or inserting the MPU board.

Install the SB001000 chip in the U21 socket, and the SS chip in U17 (see pictures below).

(http://i51.tinypic.com/maxkdk.jpg)

(http://i54.tinypic.com/20icqyu.jpg)


Note: The SS chip has fewer pins than the U17 socket.  Install the chip ensuring that the notch in the chip is in the same direction as the notch in the socket, but leave a gap between the notches (the chip should be up against the un-notched end of the socket).  See the diagram below for a visual look at how the chip should be installed in the socket.

(http://i56.tinypic.com/r8s9kz.jpg)


You cannot change the payback percentage through the S2000 menus for S+ games used in an S2000 -- the payback is determined by the data on the SS chip (just as it is with a S+ machine).

You may have to do a clear and/or keychip to change key menu settings including the accounting denomination.  Use Keychip 17 to access keychip functions.


The S2000 will take advantage of the backlit reels (if equipped), however S+ reel strips are slightly wider than S2000 backlit strips.  You may wish to consider using S2000 non-backlit reels with your S+ strips to avoid having to cut the strips down to fit in the backlit reel baskets (S2000 non-backlit reel baskets are slightly wider than their backlit cousins, and are the same width as S+ reel baskets).

The S2000 will also give you more advanced sound than the S+, however specialty games with respin sounds (Spin 'Til You Win, Coral Reef, Bullseye, etc.) will not have different song selections available like they would on a S+ machine with an older SP chip -- it will just play "We're in the Money" during a respin.

About using S+ reel chips in the S2000, if they are a 27C512 with an offset so they work in S+, will fail to work in the S2000.
The S2000 does not hold the additional address pins at a logic 1.

So if you have to make a S2000 compatible SS chip with a 27__512 (C or SF) no offset is used.

I would test a chip that was made for the S+ in the S+ (SST 27SF512) worked fine is S+ move to S2000. machine would show SS chip invalid.
When redid the chip without any offsets it worked.

Also the S2000 does not seem to damage the chips that you normally replace to do game change if you accidentally reverse them, but the S+ will every time.

Great post everybody and to Kevin for tying it all together.  I vote sticky.

Jason

I am not 100% sure of this but think it is true.

A 27C64 at 120ns will work with older S2000 GMEs that are 4 meg.

A 27C64 at 100ns will work with newer S2000 GMEs that are 8 meg.

If someone else knows this is not correct .. correct me.

Will the "legacy sounds" be as "smooth" as in the S+ or will they have that "waveformy squareness" to them??

Just for the hell of it I thru my OEM haywire chip in. It is a 27c64 200 and it worked fine . Had s2000 type haywire spin and your in the money tunes. Not too sure about the speed restrictions on the chips. SS4080

I've read many times in the past that there is a speed restriction on the chips, although perhaps it's an issue where mileage may vary.  Did you have a sound SIMM installed when you were getting the "We're in the Money" Haywire spins, or is that built in?  I know the DSV00042 has Haywire sounds on it -- I just wonder if the game can take advantage of it with the S+ Haywire chips, or if it'd require using an S2000 Haywire chip to get the full effect.

The Enhanced sound works with the S+ reel eprom in the S2000/Vision platform.

I also use my 120ns S+ eprom in it with no issues.

Wish I had seen this yesterday but glad I found it today.  One thing, I'm having a time getting my S+ reel strips to fit into my S2000 reels.  They seem a micron too wide.  Anyone else have this problem.  Maybe the backlit reels are slightly narrower that the non backlit versions?

The strips are a liitle wider as the backlit strips and reels are narrower. I had to cut about a 1/32" off of my strips so they would fit.
I measured and used a straight edge and marked the edges with a ball point pen. The only problem if you go to use them
on a non lit reels they will be loose and may come off.

Ron (r273)

Poor planning on the reel designers part, or maybe $$$mart planning.

Ron-

To be clear, is there a difference in size between S2000 backlit reels and S2000 non-backlit reels, or is the size difference between S2000 reels (regardless of backlit or not) and S+ reels?

In other words, would it make sense for someone wanting to use a S+ kit in a S2000 to buy a set of non-backlit S2000 reels, or would it not make a difference?

I found all my S+ strips were slightly wider. They are the ones I cut down as I only have one S+ left. Don't know if there is a differents in the two S-2000 reels.

Ron (r273)

Because most reel baskets are so out of whack - it's hard to determine the exact width.
I must agree with others that I've found that the S+ strips
are wider than the S2000 backlit reel baskets.
I just don't put S+ games and strips into my s2000 very often and
I will NOT cut perfectly good S+ strips to do this.
When you go to install the S+ strips back into the S+ -
they're way too loose.

It only makes sense to cut them if you're not planning
to ever install them back into an S+.
Pretty much what  r273 has done.

The other option is to get a set of non backlit reels for the S2000.
The back lit controller will be fine when you use non back lit strips since those connections on the non back lit reel assemblies are empty. 

That's what I was trying to get at -- are the non-backlit S2000 reels wider (and comparable to the S+ reels)?

the set I have have the same part number on the baskets as the S+ baskets

Excellent.  I'll add this info to the first post.  K+ and thanks, Foster.  :3-

No sound simm at the time. It was the same legacy sound the S+ does

Great info, but I am curious about the Version and Game chips. Are there specific ones to use with the S+ setup?

No specific one needed, what you have now will most likely work. Just install a SB001000 and your SS chip as instructed above. Pay attention to the SS chip placement in the socket.

Anyone know if the S2000 setup as described in this thread with enhanced sound will support the song selection for the S+ coral reef game?   Will the songs sound the same or be 'enhanced'? 

I am not sure on this. but since there is no way to chose the song selection and that newer S+ Game chips did not support songs , I would say no it will not play the songs. But I am doing a game change on Saturday and I will pop in a Corel Reef chip and see what it does to be sure if no one chimes in before then

I seem to remember in another thread someone saying the only respin song is the "we're in the money" when playing an S+ game in an S2000

why do the new 27c64a chips i bought that  work fine in splus keep giving me an invalid ss eprom code but older m27c64 chips seem to work fine when i burn them

Your newer chips are missing the "M" ?  :5-

sorry the full number is m27c64a-10f1 58800 0501k

I can help you if you can provide the name of the SS chip and it's corresponding checksum.
But on your own, have you validated the checksums to see if they match?

i can provide the checksum and ss numbers for u on monday i out of the area for the weekend but im kind of a newby at this and im not really sure what a checksum means thou i see it come up on my auto id screen what was it i need to verify exactly

I put a Corel Reef chip in and it plays "Your in the Money"

I did some compareing between ss chips that will and will not work in an s2000 and I think the vpp must be at least 12.75v to work. and ive had success with 200nanosecond chips and 512 chips. If anyone thinks this is wrong please let me know. And thanks for the help stayouttadabunker. 

Vpp has nothing to do with normal operation in the S2000 or the S+ for that matter.

Vpp is for the Programming Voltage needed to program the chip, not used when in a S+ or S2000.

You must use 120ns or faster or they will not work (ok maybe you can get an occasional 200ns or 150ns to work but that would be an exception.
That is what IGT set the specs at, if you do not want to have the machine say your SS chip is invalid stick to 120ns or faster (100ns is more than fast enough)

So in reading this -- the glass is "compatible"... my question is --

I have an older S+ that has the credit/display on the right side of the reel glass, not underneath.  Similar to how most reel glass for the S2000 (on eBay for example) looks.

Are they compatible -- can I purchase one of these S2000 reel glasses to replace my old one?  I had picked up a game kit (ten times pay) to replace an older game which had a light blue/yellow color scheme -- major mismatch.

Visually they look "close".

The S2000 setup with the player display to right of the 3rd reel uses a short reel glass.
The display is not covered by glass even though it looks like a single piece of glass.
Also I believe most of them if not all have a hole for the Printer.

I think his question is if the dimensions are the same for an S2000 "short" reel glass versus the early S+ short reel glass where the credit display was to the right of the reels instead of below it.

I don't know the dimensions of either of the pieces of glass to be able to help you with that.  I can tell you, however, that the S2000 short glass would have the blue cutout for the VFD (blue display) below the reels, which would look odd in an S+.  I think you'd be better off posting a WTB ad in the classifieds section looking for a generic S+ shorter reel glass rather than trying to make the S2000 one work, even if they are the same size (which I don't know if they are or not).

Okay, I just saw a piece of early S+ reel glass -- I didn't realize that the glass actually extended over the credit display to the right of the reels (and is the same size as a later S+ reel glass) -- I thought it was shorter, like the short reel glass on an S2000.  Sorry for the mistake and confusion.

On Flea-baey there is a seller selling a piece of "M" slot glass and saying it's for an S2000, look at it, no way, not with the display in the middle.

That is what prompted my asking -- there are a number on flea-bay that look the part but say S2000 -- so I started searching and became more confused.  Am I to understand that S2000 only uses the short reel glass (with right display) or glass with the credits on the bottom?  If so, I should be good to go on finding reel glass in more appropriate colors for kits than what is on there.

Thanks everyone.  I love this place!

Unfortunately I am too easily distracted -- so I get into the slots for a while then other projects in a vicious cycle.  I'm back on the slots for now.  :)

S2000 glass whether long or short is always ID'ed by the square window on the left for the VFD display, even the slant glass is this way.

For NLG general information!   S+  versus  S-2000  Glass  interchangeability :   
The S+  DID have a short reel  glass,  these were on after market add on bill acceptors  machines. Typically Western Money Systems add-ons.
after that there were two types of "long  glass"  that was used. The first was the type with the display on the right side, the second type had the display along the bottom and to the left. NEITHER OF THESE CAN BE USED ON A S-2000.

For normal type games, 9", 16" and Roundtop: the award , the belly glass is the same size  and can be interchanged between the two.
the reel glass is different, two types  a short glass, and a long glass. the short glass typically has a display and a hole for the ticket printer, requires a short VFD display and the cable to power/data runs atop the door.  and a display itself. if the ticket printer is mounted in the top box then you need a blank plate to cover hole.
the long glass requires  the combined display unit, both the VFD and Digital LEDS display are in one piece and match the long glass openings for the Digital LEDS display. it typically has a sign to INSERT DOLLAR BILLS BELOW/ arrow, and the power/data harness runs under the buttons.

to change between the two types of reel glass  requires additional parts and reconfiguration.

Hope this clears up the issue.

Jim
   

ok so the conversion works great backlit reels and enhanced sound work but when i hit a single cherry all three reels light up is there any way to change this

1). Short answer....No.

2). Long answer...pull the bulbs out...but you will NOT have ANY back lit lamps. :5-
I suspect that you do NOT have the correct chip.
Does it pay out correctly?
It seems that the machine is making all the lamps on winning line light up.
Is this normal behavior?
I don't know... :103-

Yeah.  Poor programming on IGT's part.  Your short answer was correct.

Image has S2000 short and long reel glass for an upright machine.

Trying to install an S Plus game in my S2000 with a legacy board.  This is my first time using a legacy board, as my previous game had an R board.  Obviously the legacy board is different that the board displayed at the beginning of this thread... can anyone tell me where the chips go?  I'm assuming the chip marked "BASE" goes in the legacy slot marked "BASE", but not sure about the game and reel chips from my S Plus.  Which slots would those go in?  I have slots marked BASE, GM1, GM2, GM3, GM4, VS and SS.  My R board (and currently installed s2000 game) has a BASE and a BOOT chip, and my S Plus has a GAME and REEL chip. 

Base - SB chip
GME 1 - SG 1 of 2
GME 2 - SG 2 of 2
VS - Version Chip
SS - SS Chip from S+

Edit: You will also need a DSP chip in the DSP socket.

(SP is not used)

Thanks, I think thats where I'm getting confused.  I have a DSP chip, so I'm good there.  I don't think I have an SG chip (not even one, much less 2) and no version chip?  Here are pics of what I have, the first is my R board that came out of my working s2000, with the 2 chips installed in it, the second pic is the blank legacy board that I have, with just the DSP chip in it.  Not pictured are my 2 chips from my s plus (game and reel).  Am I missing something, or do I not have the right chips to install my s plus game in my s2000?

(http://www.angryninjas.com/cloud/board1.jpg)

(http://www.angryninjas.com/cloud/board2.jpg)

Yep, if you tell us what theme you're trying to use we'll direct you to the correct SG, vs and base chips you neex

Ah, ok, I thought I could just use my existing base chip from the s2000, and pop in the game and reel chips from my s plus kits... guess that's not the case?  No theme wanted in particular yet, I was just trying to see if I could get any of my S plus kits to work in my S2000.  I have a double jackpot haywire kit, a 5 coin triple diamond kit, and a 5x pay kit.  The S2000 currently has a white ice 2x3x4x 25 line kit.  Didn't realize I would have to buy additional chips on top of the legacy board and dsp chip. 

The only chip you can use from an s+ kit in an s2000 is the ss chip. All other chips need to be s2000, ie: SG, VS and base chip. The base chip you'll need will be an SB001000. It works as the bridge for your ss chip. A commonly used alternative is to get the proper S2000 SB chip to eliminate the need for the S+ SS chip. Very few S+ themes were not also available in an S2000 chip set. And here again, once we know what theme you want to run we can direct you to a compatible S2000 chip set. The biggest advantage to the S2000 chips is the ability to have enhanced sounds with the use of a sound simm. If you aren't interested in using a sound simm then the DSPL2 chip is not required as it is the bridge for the sound simm to the legacy adapter.

Are you thoroughly confused yet? LOL!

Once you get a common SG (like 363) and a Version chip, you will be able to use the chips with ALL your S+ games. Then changing games would only require a Clear, Key, and SS chip change. Sometimes you may be able to skip the Clear and Key, if game themes are similiar, or so I'm told (2 coin to 2 coin, 3 coin to 3 coin).

question?  can an s-2000 with multi denomination touchpad on the reel glass be set up to operate multi denom with s-plus software?

Yes but you are limited to one pay table since that is all a S+ Reel (SS) Chip has in it.

Clear is not required but a key chip might be if the S2000 does not assign the SS game to all player denominations set in the S2000. I have not used SS chip since going to multi-denomination setup