New Life Games Tech Forums

Hey guys,

So in the S2000 boards there is a sticky topic around using resistors on the speaker wires to cure whine, buzzing, etc.  I did it and it worked great with my S2000. 

So when I upgraded way back when to the EPROM/SIMM based Game King 5.3p software, I noticed that during idle times when the game switches from the home screen to a game, there is a fair bit of interference that comes through the speakers...mainly the left one.  This also has the sound SIMM with the MM2 Lite board. 

The interesting thing is that I don't remember this being an issue with the EPROM ONLY based Game King 4.3 software.  That setup had the old MM Lite board with EPROMS for sound.

I spoke with Robin (Magicslots) about this to compare notes since we have virtually the same setup, and he experiences the same thing.

Any of you GK or Igame owners notice this type of interference thought your speakers, and if so, would the resistor trick work in this case to squelch the interference in the same way that it does the S2000?   

Thanks,
Jason

It's a long shot, but you might try replacing the big capacitor on the MML2 board.

With...???

Are you saying that by coincidence Magicslots and I both have funky capacitors or are you saying that a different capacitor spec might cure the issue?

Jason

I'm saying that this appears to be a rare problem in that it hasn't come up in previous writings about speaker noise and I've had one board in the past where the cap had gone bad and replacing it solved the problem. Either way, it's cheap to try. You'll notice I covered my ass by calling it a long shot though :96-

Jason, what levels are your sounds set at?  I can change mine to that and see if it is noticeable...like I said, mine is turned down fairly low
so I hadnt really noticed it, till you brought it up..

Understood cowboygames, and thanks for the info.  I might try swapping the MML2 from my S2000 into my Game King to see if it changes. 

Magicslots, it's pretty low, but I noticed that the static remains at the same volume regardless of the volume that I set in the control panel.

Jason

I swapped out the MML2 boards between the S2000 and GK.  No change.

Jason

Jason, have you swapped out the amp board?

Not the amp boards yet.  Here's an interesting data point.  I took the sound SIMM off and fired the game back up.  A few sounds will still play on poker games and guess what, no static.  Some sounds must reside on the MPU and the rest reside on the DSV SIMM.  Whatever the case the DSV pulls in the static.  I also remember this on the S2000.  MML2 and DSV bring in the static.  Flying without them produced no static.  Resistor or updated MPU fixed that.  Was there an updated 3902 board?

Jason

Someone will have to confirm this, but I do believe that a 3903 does exist! :89- Not sure what the differences may be, and I have never seen one of these alleged boards. :60- :8-

There are sounds in alot of GameKing and iGames that are resident in either the Base or Game Chips for some basic functions. I believe these are all mono, thus the reason it comes through one speaker only. When you put in the DSV simm you are activating a synthesized or digital circuit, and that may be why it does not happen at all times. I had an iGame that had a bad sound simm, but there were still a couple of sounds that did come out, but nothing special or from the simm.

This is why I place suspicion in the MMLII or the AMP as others have stated.

CaptainHappy :95-

bet it happens most when the the pictrue changes, remember the more you mess with shit the more you,ll mess up, bet your home  phone has a hum or static, most coin op games have it  even pinball games get it thur the display

Confirmed .. 3903s are out there.

Was speaker noise a known issue with the 3902's?

Swapped amp PCB's between s2000 and GK...no difference.  Both are Rev. A amps.

Jason

You're not helpin' us out here much Jason :5-

Wonder if it's down to a resistor mod or a 3903.  If the sound was cleaned up with it, I'd go that route.

Jason

Well, for a test, you could throw the 10 ohm resistors in. If it works, at least it's quiet till you find a 3903 board. That's what I did till I got 504b boards...and then replaced those with 1270 enhanced boards. And on and on it goes...

I'll probably go that route I'll go, granted the 3903 cures the issue.  You can even hear it in this video:  Listen to the transition from Keno to Home Screen into Black Jack at 1:35.  The video isn't as loud as it is in person. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxOHLFa2jg8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxOHLFa2jg8)

Jason

Jason, I will crank up the volume on mine tomorrow and see what it does... :103-

From the very bottom 0 setting, mine is at I believe 6 or 8 ticks up...and boy it will go WAAAAYYYY higher than that.  I cannot imagine who would need their volume past the first hash mark!

Jason

I know how to fix it.  I will tell you how but you have to promise to follow all my instructions completely.  No not get rid of the machine, just have to buy one inexpensive part.


Have you ever changed any of the button light bulbs in your Game King ??

Yep, a few months ago, I replaced all of the buttons/lights with the GK upright kit from Suzo Happ.

Did you look at the light bulbs in the new switches ??

Nope.  Come on Buzz, I'm on pins and needles here.

The upright set is what I bought here:

http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/77kit401.htm (http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/77kit401.htm)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

77-KIT-700  (I bought this one)
 Button Set for IGT Game King Upright Machine With 14v(#73) Lamp  1+   $32.65   
 
77-KIT-706LD 
 Button Set for IGT Game King Upright Machine With 6v LED 1+   $45.45   
 
77-KIT-700L 
 Button Set for IGT Game King Upright Machine With 12v LED 1+   $45.45   

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Can LED's be dropped into the sockets that I bought?

Why  To me they look bright enough to be LEDs   Yes they will fit.   

Your other problem !!     http://cgi.ebay.com/OSHA-APPROVED-INDUSTRIAL-EAR-MUFFS-HEARING-PROTECTION-Y-/360268815510?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e1b1dc96

Curious if those are LED's in Jim's video above or if Magicslots has LED's in his. 

Where do you suggest getting them?  Seriously, my volume is not loud at all.

Search that part # in Happs this is what I got.  4th line down.

  REPLACEMENT BUTTON SET FOR IGT GAME KING BAR TOP MACHINES
Rectangular and small square buttons with clear caps
All buttons have white legends and black print except the “Change” button which has a red legend and white print
Fitted with #73, 14 volt lamp / 6v LED / 12v LED
Set includes:
1 “Change” button
1 “Cash Out” button
1 “Bet One Credit” button
1 “Max Bet” button
1 “Deal/Draw” button
5 “Hold/Cancel” button
 

I thought the video was your machine.  I'll bet Jim has LEDs in his machine. Are yours as bright as the ones in the video ? I think I would already be looking to see what I have !!

I'm not saying your machine is to loud, I'm saying the ear muffs won't let you hear a little static.  EVERY ONE WINS

Thanks for your help Buzz, and everybody else too.  I just threw in some Radio Shack part number 271-1105 - 47 ohm 1/2W 5% Carbon Film Resistors on speakers...same mod as the S2000 workaround.  It eliminates the static, and the volume needs to be turned up much higher now...almost max.  But this is the same effect that occurs on my S2000.  It's usually up around 9.  The Game King however is a bit of a different beast.  So it's been determined that there are certain sounds that reside on some other EPROM that are not present on the DSV SIMM as mentioned earlier.  Changing the volume will affect the stereo sounds that appear to come from the SIMM, and it seems like the resistors affect those sounds.  The mono sounds however don't appear to change much if at all when adjusting the game volume such as the roll up sounds in poker games.  I'll play around with it more and report back what I come up with.  

If somebody is using this 3903 board and can conclude that interference was fixed with it, I'll buy one and reconnect my speakers without resistors, but until then, I'll keep on tweakin away!

Cheers,
Jason

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone will have to confirm this, but I do believe that a 3903 does exist!  Not sure what the differences may be, and I have never seen one of these alleged  boards. 

There are sounds in alot of GameKing and iGames that are resident in either the Base or Game Chips for some basic functions. I believe these are all mono, thus the reason it comes through one speaker only. When you put in the DSV simm you are activating a synthesized or digital circuit, and that may be why it does not happen at all times. I had an iGame that had a bad sound simm, but there were still a couple of sounds that did come out, but nothing special or from the simm.

This is why I place suspicion in the MMLII or the AMP as others have stated.

CaptainHappy

That's why I use 10 ohm resistors Jason. Reduces noise without affecting overall volume so much. I went from 2 to4 on volume setting after putting resistors on

Ok guys.  I think the Game King mission could be a bust in terms of resistors.  The balance between the mono sounds that reside on the base/game chips and the stereo sounds that reside on the DSV SIMM just get too out of whack and don't mix well when adjusting the master volume.  I tested with 47 and 10 ohm resistors..  The 47 ohm resistors DO squelch the static sound.  However, when using these resistors, I drive the volume near max which will play the stereo sounds ok, but the mono sounds end up sounding waaaay to over driven...not good.  The 10 ohm resistors squelch some of the static, but not enough to be worthwhile as you still run into balance issues between the mono/stereo sounds when adjusting the master volume.

So where does that leave this project?  I reconnected all speaker cables without resistors...OEM if you will.  I think not having any fans running amplified the static.  LOL!

So either the LED replacement that Buzz suggested (but I'm curious if Jim or Magicslots are already running LED and still get the static), or a 3903 board (still not sure on that one as it has not been confirmed).

Maybe I should just put the fan back in!  LOL!

Oh, cowboygames, btw...I decided to try out the 10 ohm resistors in the S2000.  The hum was amplified, and I turned the volume back down to about 3, but the hum does not adjust with the volume settings.  Game sound quality was no different between the different resistors, so I decided to stay with the 47 ohm resistors as this produces NO hum and I bump the volume back up to 7 or 8. 

Thanks,
Jason

Jason HOLD on  I never suggested the LEDs will help the static one way or the other.

 I suggested you wear a set of ear muffs so you can't hear the static.  The LEDs came up because in another thread you said you didn't use them, and in the video you posted I think that machine has LEDs,  I didn't realize that wasn't your machine. I thought you had LEDs and didn't know it !! ( I would still check and see if you have them or not) 

I just thought of something from way back.  In my big truck if I have a light bulb that does not have a very good ground, I will hear all kinds of static coming from the CB and AM/FM radio speakers. Example If I turn out the marker lights and the static goes away, I look for the light that's not as bright as the rest of them and that will be the dirty dog.

Jason did you ever stop and think, when IGT built that Slot Machine, their intentions were to build a Slot Machine not a stereo.

Haha!  10-4 Buzz.  The button kit that I have does NOT have LED's.  Yeah, these things were built for casinos...lotta noise, fans, people, games, etc.  I just figured I'd give the ol S2000 workaround a shot, to see if it helped.  Resistors kill the static, but unhinge the sound in a weird way due to setup with where the sounds reside.  I'll see what else I can find in this mystery machine.  Thanks again man!

Jason

Try removing all the light bulbs and see if the sound is still there . that will confirm if the static- humm sound is caused by the lighting

I am indeed running LED's. My game king came from Jim, so (he would have to confirm this) that may even be my machine in his video.  :103-
I ran my volume up to 8 and 10, and there was no noticeable static.  I can still hear it if I put my ear close to the left speaker, and it makes weird noises when the
LCD screen repaints or switches images, but it is not audible during idle.  (http://)


While running out credits and switching games to see if there was a noise problem, I did something I will probably never again do in my life.
I matched 9 out of 9 picks in Keno for a 40,000 credit hit!  400 bucks for 80 cents spent..oh if it would happen at a casino!  :3- :3- :208-

Congrats on the HUGE hit!  You run your fan too right?  If disconnected, is the noise still pretty faint in your case?

Jason

Yup, run the case fan always.   The LCD doesn't generate as much heat as a CRT but , I like to keep things as cool as possible.
The little mpu board fan sometimes get a little noisy...anybody know where to find one of these?
The fan in my5 reeler makes more noise than the GK. 

Is it the processor fan your talking about? Or is it mounted to the frame?

The MPU fan shouldn't be louder than the case fan.  Mine had a broken blade that made it really noisy, but it was replaced before I picked it up.

Its the little1.5" ? fam mounted to the side of the receiving tray for the board. What voltage are these little things?
My board by the way is a 3902 B, Wells Gardner 17" LCD

The fan only makes noise from time to time.  Like the ones on my PC, this usually indicates they are on their last legs.  :30-

It's a 24VDC fan 40mm X 20mm. The screws holding it in are a real pleasure to remove.  I think they put loctite or something similar on the threads.  Anyhow I've used these from Mouser Electronics :

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=BP402024H_W-Gvirtualkey11350000virtualkey433-BP402024H (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=BP402024H_W-Gvirtualkey11350000virtualkey433-BP402024H)

You will need to reuse the connector from your old fan as these just have tinned leads.