New Life Games Tech Forums

 Well. I finally solved my coin optic problem and my machine now accepts coins. However, my bill unit is the next issue.

 Here's what I know for certain:

 MODEL DBV-200

 Upon power up, unit runs for a split second. Leds INSIDE the unit are lit. 2 small leds on the side of the unit ( area of power plug ) are lit.
 Bezel leds are NOT lit.
 Cash box is pushed all the way in and seated correctly ( for the optics )
 In self test, the bill acceptor is ENABLED.
 Dip switches on the bill unit are all off, except #10 is ON for the PE+ setting.( I've tried this dip BOTH ways, no difference ).
 I put the DBV in self test ( dip #6 on ) and the unit will run, stop, bezel leds will blink once and repeat .
 Upon having the DBV in self test, I can insert a bill. The bill goes through the acceptor and gets "mashed up" at the transporter which should feed the bill into the stacker.

 That's where I am at. Any ideas ???
 Thanks in advance,
 Dave.

I'm pretty sure,regardless of the IDO settings, upon power on, the unit should go thru two distinct cycles, the first is the cash can /transport cycle, the second is the transport /head cycle.

I'm not sure,(I don't have my 200 pocket cards with me )  I think the IDO setting is a different number switch for the PE+.

the fact that it accepting the bill eliminates power and head operation.
 remove the cash can and see if the optics see that the can is missing, it should cycle continuously (at least 10 times) then it may disable itself.

Jim

It sounds like the transport is dead for some reason. Either broken or not getting power. As Jim mentioned, it should cycle on power up regardless of ID settings. The fact that the bill is getting mashed up also seems to indicate it's not running. If the transport does not run, the BV will never enable. Also as Jim mentioned, pull the cash can and see what happens. The transport should cycle. If not, it's not working.

Also does it actually have the cable that goes between the head and the transport on the right side? If so, make sure it's seated on both ends.

 The transport does not cycle, or do anything for that matter. Nothing happens when the cash can is removed.

 Is there a way to test the cash can optics in self test ? Possibly my optics are bad (?).

 And YES. There is a 10 or 12 pin connector between the head and transport ( right side ) which is connected.

I doubt it is the optics. The transport should cycle whenever power is applied. If the optics were bad, it would just think the can was missing and cycle even more times. Sounds like a dead transport. You may try pulling it out, lift the cover on it and see if there is anything jammed in it. You can also try manually moving the gear by the motor and see if things move. Then when power is applied is should cycle to try and 'home' everything. If it still does not do anything, it may be time for a new transport.

 Yeap. My transport does absolutely nothin. Is there a "modern-day" replacement for that entire bill unit set-up ? Like a MEI or CashCode or Pyramid acceptor ?

 Dave.

One other question although it's probably not the problem. Does your BV power supply have vent slots in the cover? If someone upgraded the head from a DBV-145 to a DBV-200 and did not upgrade the power supply, it can cause issues.

As far as other altrenatives, I believe the only option is a WBA unit.

 Yes. Power Supply has vents ( as seen in your pic ).

 

Unless you have another transport that you can try, you may want to contact one of the vendors here, and one of them will probably have what you need.

Even if there is (and there may be, as I did see one bank of PE+ machines in a casino setup that had a newer validator in it -- Mars, I think), it would be far cheaper and easier to just get a new DBV-200 setup.  The 200's are inexpensive and will fit perfectly in your machine without any modifications.  Unless you're running a casino where you need the latest bill acceptance and whatnot, I'd highly suggest sticking with a simple replacement of the same validator setup you already have.

Dave -  you do have options,  it all depends on what you feel EXPENSIVE is and what degree of reliability you want.   I would check three other things before you make any decisions. 1, if you have another machine to swap out the black power supply unit.  2, follow the plug from the power supply where it plugs into the harness coming from the machine, then follow that harness to where it plugs into the motherboard. two larger wires are the 115vac, the other four are the comms. lines that talk to the MPU via the motherboard.make sure its plugged in. 3- I believe you can call up the bill validator test on the input /output test screens, you have to follow the instructions on the screen to navigate thru the menu.

I believe you can upgrade (have enough room is primary) to  WBA series unit. I would imagine the package could be had for 125/ 150 dollar range. you will need a WBA 12 programmed for a IDO 022/023 and bezel. power supply, cash can, and a harness for a WBA 12, and the transport housing.  The exception may be the bottom that the cash can slides onto and is a support for it. Some were held in place with screws, others were tach. welded to the metal frame that the transport goes into.so you may need this as well, someone who has this on there machine may confirm this. option one.

option two is to find a good working transport unit that has descent belts on it and won't eat bills too often. and an upgraded 200 head. you will be limited up to all the previous new money and the lastest color types up to the new ten. the new five is do-able but expensive.

Jim   

I think his power supply is working ok since the BV head will take a bill when put in diagostic mode.

thepower supply has two functions, 1, it provides +12vdc to power the 200 head, 2, it contains the interface circuits between the head and the MPU.

take the cover off on and you will see the two distinct circuit boards. you will see the four wires that communicate with the MPU.


Jim

I connected a BV power supply to just 110V (to test a unit outside of the machine) and the transport did cycle, but then it 'timed out' after it cyccled several times because there was no cash can interfaced to it.  However, both cables needed to be connected to the head for it to cycle, so it's possible something is wrong with the power supply.

The transport will cycle on power up, even if there is no MPU installed.

I'm going to break one of my own rules and post in this thread.

   http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=4226.msg8620#msg8620

   I think this thread started off, the BV takes the bill and wads it up. Could be a bad cash can !! 

But the transport NEVER cycles. Not at power up, and not when the can is removed/replaced.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=4226.msg8620#msg8620 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=4226.msg8620#msg8620)

But again, the transport NEVER cycles. It should cycle on power up whether it's seated properly or not, and whether there is a cash can in or not. It may cycle several times trying to home everything and find the can, but it WILL cycle. His won't cycle at all. I did suggest he open the lid to make sure it was not jammed up preventing it from cycling. But short of a physical jam, it should always cycle on power up.

 Yeap. There's nothing jammed in the transport. I'm starting to believe it is dead.

 OK guys. I bought a used transport.

 Upon power up the bill unit runs, the transport runs, then the transport runs as if its "pulsing " 7 or 8 times. The bezel does not light and will not take any bills.

 One thing I did notice is the stacker does not return to it's original position. It stop as if it was trying to push a bill in half way. I can return the stacker to it's original postion if I push on it with my fingers ( so it's not jammed or anything ).

 Any other ideas ? I at least got the thing doing a little more than previously posted.

 Thanks,
  Dave.

That is the classic sign that the transport is not seated in the back properly. Be sure the tabs are engaged like this.

If it is seated properly, check your optics cable on the right side. Repeated cycling is the unit trying to home the cash can.

Mine looks exactly like your pic. Tabs are engaged for sure.

ADMIN NOTE: Pulled reply out of QUOTE BOX. CH :95-

Make sure you are seating the cash can then. Slam it in there good. Check for broken teeth on the transport and cash can.

On the cash can (removed) you should be able to manually turn the gear and have the stacker go though a complete cycle. It IS possible that it is getting hung up. I had one that would cycle 3/4 of the way before stopping. The stacker tray had popped off of it's guides.

 Gear looks fine on bill box. ( Good thinkin though ).

 I took a pic of where the bill box stacker is stopping. I can push it back manually with my finger.

 Getting ready to purchase the wholoe darn thing already.  :37-

 How does the whole thing know when the stacker is back to it's original position ?

The stacker does not look right. Not the part you are holding, but the 'scissor plate'. See how it looks off center by the arrows (too far to the right). A picture of mine on the bottom. It needs to be able to go all the way into the cavity or it will get hung up. The one I had that was like that, I was able to just pop it back into place.

 If I push it back with my finger, it does seat all the way back in though. I'll take another look at it.

Hold that spring loaded plate up with one hand and turn the gear with your finger (CCW as you are looking into the can). Watch and see what happens. The stacker will go up and then back down. If that plate is off center it will hang on the way back down.

It may be easier if you remove the staker from the can. Make sure it's all the way down and then just remove the 2 screws in front holding it in and slide it out the back.

 Yes. That's exactly what I just did ( remove the stacker , IT"S SPRING LOADED to return to it's original position ! I did not know this.)

 I can turn the gears and the stacker will come out as if pushing in a bill. It comes back ( returning ) about a half inch then stops for some reason.

Just look closely at everything as it is returning. Is it centered? You should be able to spot what is hanging if it's out of the can.

Also are you continuing to turn the gear to make it return? Don't let the gear go backward on it's own. In other words it completes a full cycle by turing the gear only one way.  Wrong info. It does stop at the top.

 Ok. Now we're getting somewhere. I can only turn my gear until the stacker has reached it's fully extended. The gear won't continue to turn in the same direction to allow the stacker to return. I assumed the return mechanism was some type of spring-loaded thing.

Wait! I take that back. I have mine out and it does stop at the top. Give me a few to look this over again. It's been a while.

Ok. Turning the big gear CW (it's easier to turn that one) will make the stacker rise. It will stop at some point. Turning the big gear CCW will return the stacker all of the way down smoothly. Check all of the teeth on those gears too.

If that all works, then I don't know. Maybe you got another bad transport.

 Ok. Mine works exactly as you have described by turning the gears with your fingers. I was actually thinking that perhaps I bought a bad transport.

 At this point before I get out the sledge, I am looking to buy the complete thing. Head, transport ans stacker if anyone has a known good, working one.

there are a few things to check:  the only true method to see what is going on is to remove the transport shelf assembly.  remove the transport, remove the two screws on the backwall, (use a hardened tip screwdriver, these are metric screws and they strip out real easy ) usually one on the left side, remove the connectors from the power supply to the transport connector, tip the unit forward and remove.
now you can insert the transport and cash can and visually see if the transport is seated and engaging with the cash can. there are two tabs on the back of the transport that go into two holes on the backwall of the transport shelf assembly. these are the notches that will prevent the transport from not being seated properly, not the two tabs that everyone shows in the pictures in this thread, they are bill guides that guide the bill out of the transport and into the stacker, they will naturally fit thru the hole . some times the hole that the gear must fit threw (rectangle in shape) rubs the gear and prevents it from meshing with the cash can, IGT fix was to cut a "V" shape toward the front so the teeth wouldn't bind.
the last thing to check, the tywraps that secure the cable that goes along the right side of the unit, if they are turned differently they will prevent the transport from sitting flush on the bottom of the shelf.

Jim   

 I'll give that a try also. Do you by chance have a pic of the "V" cut into the tranport ? Or the location of the IGT tech bulletin ?

 Thanks again,
 Dave.

Here is a shot of when I did mine and the 'nibbler' tool I used. Usually you will hear the gear grinding though if it's rubbing.

While I agree with Jim about the little pins in the back (that you can't see) I will still say that the easiest way to tell if it's seated is by looking at the tabs and the gear through  he cash box opening. It it's not seated, it will be obvious by looking at those.

 Here's a lower-view pic of the pins and gear showing through.

 ABout the stacker. Does the transport only push the stacker to the up position, then the spring loaded mech brings it back to it's resting or original position ? Or does the transport perform both actions ?

That looks fine.

The transport does both actions.

There are optics on the trasport in several places. You may want to check to see if any of them are blocked.

In case you don't know, here is how you open the transport. Push that rod forward, then lift the top.

 One thing I just noticed was the dip switches on the bill unit were set wrong. My bill unit ID is #23 ( dip bank 1 switch 10 OFF ). It was "on".

 Didn't make a difference though, I still have the same problem. UHGGG !!!

 

POPPO.

 Could you take a pic of the bottom of your DBV-200 bill unit's dip switches ? I'm starting to lean in that direction.

 Thanks,
  Dave.

I could be wrong, but the validator should never try to cycle upwards of six times regardless of its DIP settings -- the can is not meshing with the transport.

Here you go. All switches should be off (toward opening with flash chip or eprom) except maybe for #10 which will depend on your game ID.

As noted above though, constant cycling is usually a problem with trying to home the stacker. But maybe if the diag switches (the smaller bank) are wrong, it may do something weird.

Just so we are on the same page, here are a couple of videos I made a while back of what the BV sounds like when it can't find the cash can and when it's working normally. Listen to them and see if either sounds like yours or if yours does something else.

Cycling
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8lREU54hAY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8lREU54hAY)

Normal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV5t65s98ts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV5t65s98ts)

 Opps ! Your 2 videos are the same video.
 My bill unit cycles "forward" then "reverse" once and then the motor "pulses" 8 times and stops.

 Again, this does this with 2 complete sets of bill units,transports and stackers. Doesn't really mater which set I install.

I fixed the second link.

I wonder if you have a bad BV power supply and it's dying when the unit is trying to cycle.  It's about the only thing left and might explain the 'pulsing' (if it's not cycling like in the video).

 I hafta try to do that "notch" modify yet. Maybe tonight after I get home from work. It's strange that 2 different sets of parts are doing the same thing.

If you power up the machine with the door open and the cash can out, you can look inside at the transport gear and watch it turn. It will be pretty obvious if it's binding. Also without the can out it should sound like the first video (complete cycles). If not, I would get a new BV power supply. They do go bad and it's the only thing left.

 Last night I did the "notch" modify to the bracket the cash can slides into. I also found out that a blue wire coming from the power supply to the bill unit was brokeen and out of the 6-pin connector. I SAID, " THAT'S IT !".

 Soldered the wire back to the correct pin of the connector, put everything back and.........NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 Same problem still persists.

 The bill unit and stacker seem to run normally with the cash can removed though. There is no binding at all.

By normally, do you mean it cycles several times like in the video?

If so, try this. Power up the unit without the cash can. When it's done cycling, insert the can. Does it start to cycle again? If not, you may have some bad optics in the can housing.

 YES. It cycles like the video.

 And NO , it does NOT recycle when I insert the cash can. For the hell of it, I'll unplugg the optics from the transport and see if I get the same result.

 Stay tuned......

Ok, it sounds like you may have a problem with your housing optics. Check all of the wiring to them and make sure nothing is blocking them. You may have to remove the housing. It's not hard. Just a couple of screws. But a slant top may be a little different than an upright so I'm not sure how it's held in.

The cable that goes to them runs along the right side where the transport goes in and it's easy to get the wires pinched, so look at that area closely.

 I actually removed the entire housing last night ( to do the notch modify ). I assume the optics looked good.
 I just ran back to the shed and tried my machine with the cash can out. The results were :

 Transport clicks once, motor runs forward twice and reverse 3 times then stops and does nothing.

 

Now I'm not so sure what may be going on.  :103- Mine will cycle 7 times before giving up. And it doesn't click.

With the can out, I can stick my hand in where the can goes and block the optics. That will make the transport cycle.

I would still not rule out a BV power supply problem. Does it 'die' sooner with the can in? If so, that may point to the power supply as it would take more power to cycle the stacker.

Ok let's focus on the cash can optics. Where on the test screen should I see either a 1 or a 0 when I put my hand between those optics. When I do this now, there is no change on this screen.


 Also, nothing happens after my transport cycles and I place my hand between those optics it will not cycle again.

I'm not sure about a PE+, but I' pretty sure the cash can optics are just monitored by the BV unit, and don't actually get reported to the machine.

BTW, where are all of the BV experts?  :103-  :99-

That is correct -- there is nothing on the Self Test Inputs screen that will show if the bill validator optics are working or not.  If it's not attempting to cycle after its initial power up when you remove and insert the can, I'd strongly suspect that the optics are bad, or the wiring for them is broken or disconnected.

Checked the 4-pin connector which goes to the cash can optics. All 4 wires are good right to the optics themselves. So wiring is not the issue either, but bad optics can be. Where do I get a set of those puppies ??? Checked eBay....and nothing.

 I just wish there was a replacement model that would retro into that thing already.

I'm sure one of the vendors here will have a set.  I would probably get another BV power supply too. They are pretty cheap. Might put a WTB in the classifieds.

I know you have already swapped out just about everything, but on the plus side it's always good to have spares. It makes troubleshooting a lot esier when you have known good parts on hand.

<eidt>
You are in luck. I have a spare set of optics. PM me your address and I'll stick them in the mail.

 WOW ! Excellent !
 Just for $hits & giggles, try unplugging your optics in your machine ( the 4-pin connector on the transport ) to see if your DBV mimicks the symptoms mine is having. Then power it up.

Yep, pretty much. It cycles a little, then sort of goes 'chuck, chuck, chuck', and stops.

 WELL...THAT'S IT. That's what mine is doing.....sounds like bad optics to me.

Ok, YES ! The cash can optics were absolutely the problem. Replaced them and the bill unit now comes on.

 Now it works great for $1.00 bills, but for any other denomination it WILL ACCEPT the bill, stack it, but WON'T give any credits ????

 This machine just get more strange by the minute.

Hey hey, that's progress!

 :136-

With the power off, flip DIP switch 10 (on the DBV 200) -- that should fix the issue you described (sounds like it's set to the wrong ID).

 YES, THAT WAS IT !  I tried it before but didn't turn the power off to the machine and it didn't work.
 But doing this as you said did the trick. Will take bills and give credits now ( just won't take the new colored $5 and $ 10's )

 Thanks for everyone's help, you have all been wonderful.
 Dave.

That's great to hear you've got it running!
Just for future reference, whenever flipping dip switches or
doing anything that concerns circuit boards in general -
should all be performed with the power "Off" !!!  :71-

 :105-

Allright!  Congrats on sticking with it and getting your machine back up and running.  Great job!   :244- :244-



 :212-