New Life Games Tech Forums

Just posted my intro, now it's public knowledge that I know nothing about my newly acquired IGT so some questions are in order;
What do I have? This info on side cabinet;
Model #ber B5027CI ?
Description S-S LCT
Build date 6/91
Here's what I have done so far;
plugged it into the wall, that was easy!
Lights up but no other action.
Filled coin bucket with quarters, that was spendy!
Put a quarter in the coin validator and hooked spring to back of said part as it was just floating around the bottom of the mach.
Found a blown fuse, middle one, made no diff.
Cleaned and inspected everything, no smoking gun found.
Can't pull handle unless I manualy lift solenoid.
OK, hit me with all your knowledge!
Here's some pic's of the culprit .....................................

More pics.................................................

And the last...............................................

On the windows on right. Are there any numbers in there?

Hi straycat and welcome to Newlifegames. :88-

As everyone mentioned in the Welcome Wagon thread, you have an early, pre-dbv model S+.

One thing I noticed is that the white seven on the first reel looks a bit out of place and you have power to the machine. So my first question is, do the reels stiffen up when you turn on the power? If so, do they execute their maiden spin when the machine self-tests on power up?

If the reels are working, my next suggestion would be to open the door and press the small white test button on the coin optics (located below the comparitor where you put your sample coin). If the optic board is working, this should put credits on the machine that you should be able to play with the door open.

Third, it looks like there might be a "0" in the coins played, but it's hard to tell in the photo. If so, that means that you probably don't have any error codes, but it also means that the door is seen as open. (You might get error codes once the door is properly closed) If you have a "0" and you completely close and latch the door, does it go away?

<ADD> Sorry Ford, I was typing while you were posting. :96-

Stat :31-

Check the power connector on the motherboard, that's the one that stays in the machine that the MPU board plugs into.  These power connectors fail over time and cause problems.  It's located in the vicinity of the power transformer.  See this thread for what a burnt one looks like.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=9367.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=9367.0)

On the windows on right. Are there any numbers in there? ........................   No!

Do the reels stiffen up when you turn on the power? If so, do they execute their maiden spin when the machine self-tests on power up? ......................................... No again!

If the reels are working, my next suggestion would be to open the door and press the small white test button on the coin optics (located below the comparitor where you put your sample coin). If the optic board is working, this should put credits on the machine that you should be able to play with the door open. ............ Reels not working, looked but can't find the white test button. There is a white micro button down the dide where the mother board slips into?

Third, it looks like there might be a "0" in the coins played, but it's hard to tell in the photo. If so, that means that you probably don't have any error codes, but it also means that the door is seen as open. (You might get error codes once the door is properly closed) If you have a "0" and you completely close and latch the door, does it go away? ....................... No "0" in coins played.

Check the power connector on the motherboard, that's the one that stays in the machine that the MPU board plugs into.  These power connectors fail over time and cause problems.  It's located in the vicinity of the power transformer.  See this thread for what a burnt one looks like.    Looks good in that area!

Basically it looks like I have Florecent lights only lit up, nothing else.

Are the buttons lit?

Are the buttons lit?
Nope!

If I were you I'd turn machine off then go over ALL connectors & make sure they are making connection.
Unplug & plug in again.

I am testing with door open but can see that there is an optic on the door and the cabinet, should I bypass them some how? Is there a test mode? Can I test with door open? Thanks again!

I'll let someone who has experience on S+ chime in.
it's been to long since I worked on one of them. I don't want to give you wrong advice.
Ford

Did the fuse you replaced blow again?  The door optics don't matter for now since your MPU board doesn't appear to be getting power.  There are self tests, but the MPU board needs to boot up to run them and yours isn't doing that at this point.  I recommend re-checking the fuse, and checking/re-seating the connectors as Ford suggested.

Don't leave now Ford were just getting started!
OK, pulled and plugged back in everything that would, still just fluorescents.
I did finally find the white button on the coin verifier. Still nothing ........................
Checked fuses again, look & check good........................
Believe me the inside of this thing looks brand new, I know that means nothing though!

Did you check the plug on power supply. It is your 4Th pic. Lower left on pic.

Missed that one Ford, just checked and all is good!

This mach. has a round key lock on the outside of cabinet that I do not have a key for, so I took the 2 wires off the back of it and "joined"  them with a spaded auto fuse for a bypass. Is this acceptable for now just testing?

That is the switch for resetting the machine. You don't want to connect them. That is one that you just turn to make a quick connect on & off.

Grab a multimeter and check for the AC inputs to the motherboard.  The connector pinout and voltages you need to check are designated by the red box on the schematic.

That's the jackpot reset switch wires.  They aren't needed for now and are normally open vs closed as you have them now.  I'd put them back and if you need to use it, just remove one wire from the terminal and touch it to the other.  You can get a key for it, they're the same standard key on most machines.

Ford, easy fix, I will take care of that ASP. Thanks!
Tilt, have my meter in hand is this the red box you were referring to, can you walk me threw the testing of the input output? Thanks

Tilt, how stupid of me I see now that you posted a schematic and I just looked it over. Thanks a bunch will be back with more info from that!

Sorry pic will not upload

Not working for me coors ............................................... says I am not allowed there!
No problem thanks for trying!

120 volts ac on these two wires

Did you double check this connector? This fault would yield the symptoms you're describing. I would check and clean both the male and female connections, even if the connector doesn't look burnt.

What is the rating on the blown fuse? In other words, what part of the machine is it powering? That might help to narrow things down. (I don't own an older S-plus, so I'm not sure if the order from top to bottom matches the newer S-pluses.) I also suggest making sure that it hadn't blown again before checking voltages.

Yes please look close!

Clean as a whisle, both male & female parts..................

Are all the voltages present on that connector?  That is the one I put the red box around on the schematic for you to check with a multimeter.

Check the female connector for proper voltages. If they're okay, then there is most likely something wrong with the MPU board (cheap, and easily replaced). If not, then trace the fault back to the PS.

<EDIT> Oops, Just saw your post, tilt. :88-

I have lost 20lb's running from computer in house to slot in the shop!
Tilt & Stat, it will take me awhile to get and record AC value's, try to make it happen in the morn, got chores to do. Thanks to all, Lon

Next toy should be wireless internet connection for your computer   :208- :97- :97-

Maybe it's just the angle of the picture, but this connector does not look like it's plugged in all of the way toward the front of the machine. In any case, I would re-seat every plug.

<edit> I see that may have already been done.  

Good catch, though, Poppo. It does look like it was not fully seated.

It 'might' have a bent pin making it feel like it is in all of the way when it's not. I've done that with MPUs  :25-

If the reels do not stiffen up with power applied you should check the 7/8 volt ac. the power supply is ac so there is no polarity concern. the fuse is actually passing the ac common line to the MPU board. Someone here at NLG should be able to point you to a manual which should give you the info on secondary side of xformer to check voltage output of each center tap. Power supply is very basic as far as its output and where it leads.  Each xformer tap should be numbered so you then can identify the voltage that should be present at each connector compared to schematic. Since the xformer on your unit is exposed should be fairly easy to verify the voltage on the secondary side. check the white six pin molex plug  located on the outer edge of the bottom PCB board to the left of xformer for your 7/8 volt power. check for voltage between the green wire (common) and brown with blue stripe and voltage between the green common and blue wire.  If you have the voltage present at that connector power off the machine and pull the individual connectors from the plug body one at a time and bend them a bit to give them more tension against the pins they contact with. the best indicator that the MPU board has proper voltage should be the denomination light will be lit and the reels will be notably stiffer than with power off.


Good luck, and remember,  dont let the smoke out!!

I do have 120 on those 2 wires......................

I am trying the test that Tilt suggested (reply 18) but must be doing it wrong. J8 is not marked 1-6 like in the schematic nor is the P8 plug so I don't know which end starts at 1 or 6. When I test the voltage at end of P8 I get bigger V numbers than the 7-8v shown on the schematic.

Here's a diagram that shows the pin numbers.  Hope it helps.

Yes that helps alot, Thanks!
OK so do I test those pin's with everything hooked up and in place?
Shouldn't those V readings be the same on the end of P8 unplugged?

Whatever way is easiest.  Yep, the end you unplugged from the motherboard is the supply to it.

Tilt on the first schematic in reply 18 it shows, J8 shows volts as
pin
1  7-8 vac
4  8 vac
2  7-8 vac
3  7 vac
5 24 vac
6 24 vac
I havent checked those yet BUT it's plug in P8 has higher readings of
pin
1 107 vac
4 68 vac
2 73 vac
3 72 vac
5 16 vac
6 117 vac

Getting ready to board my flight to Houston.  Real quick, I think you may have been using the wrong reference for your measuments.

From pin 5 to 1 your should have 7VAC
From pin 5 to 6 you should have 8 VAC
From pin 4 to 2 you should have 12 VAC
From pin 4 to 3 you should have 12 VAC

It appears that you are not getting any power. the easiest way to determine if you are getting power to the motherboard is to put a meter across the denomination lamp pads on the indicator board. if you are reading 7vac there then the connection from the transformer to the motherboard is good.

check the fuses with a meter, even though they don't appear blown I have seen them broken down behind the metal part.

also with that type machine, UNPLUG MACHINE OR YOU WILL GET ZAPPED,  YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE BEHIND THE FUSE PANEL, look and see if there any coins behind there. usually if there are they are shorting out the fuses. Have found many coins behind that area. people forget to unload the hopper and when they lay it down to transport GUESS where the coins go?

also the black terminal blocks in front of the SSR (red box you were measuring) actually have the 115 vac that is distributed to all areas of the machine.
The red box is a Solid State Relay, it puts 115vac to the hopper motor when the MPU boards tells it to.
P.S.  the picture of your logic board does not look normal, the right hand plug as pictured appears to go at an angle. both should be even and across from one another.

Jim

I didn't know I had to go from one pin to another pin, I was grounding my meter to chassis and red probe to each pin. When the only wiring you've done your hole life is hot rods you get tunnel vision, hard for me to switch to AC methods! Have a great flight and thanks again to all for the help. Going back in for another "have at it" with the probes this time I will try it your way! Thanks

crashed86 & Jim,  a little overwhelmed as you can see so will get back to you about your reply soon.

Poppo, you must have bionic eyes, indeed the plug was not seated all the way down, I pulled it out, inspected pin's etc. & reinstalled, unfortunately it made no diff. yet. Thanks guy's

Well after poking & prodding & getting a bigger hammer I now have stiff Reels so there is some progress! I have done so many little things I can't tell you at what point the Reels came to life. So now I have Fluorescents and stiff Reels, that's it, whats the next move? Thanks

You may have done this already, but did you look at all of the pins on the MPU connectors too? And are you sure the MPU is seated all of the way? Sometimes you really have to push it down hard.

Any other lamps lighting now? Do you know if the lamps are good? Did you try measuring across the denomination lamp pads as Jim noted above? You should have 7vac there.

Hate to say it Poppo & Jim but I don't know what a logic board is and I don't have a clue what or where the denomination lamp pads are but willing to learn! Pic's and arrows and circles work best for me unfortunately ........................

The 'logic board' and MPU are the same thing. It's the big board on the tray with the knob.

The denomination lamp is the one right in the center between the LED displays that is usually 25 cents or whatever. That lamp is always on, so it's a good place to check for 7vac

Here is a picture of the back of the LED board with the denomination lamp removed. You should measure 7vac across the two points shown.

Denomination light is not on and Volts across it seems to be 1.47 .........................

Jim, here is a better pic of the plug in on the logic MPU board in question, still look "not normal"?

I think the picture is just making it look distorted (like the bottom is bowed up at the ends). But if the bottoms of the connectrors are not actually parallel, then you have a problem. Did you check for bent pins?

In any case, it looks like you may have a problem with your 7vac and need to figure out why. You don't need the MPU or hopper in while working on tracking that down.

If you have 7vac on that white plug going to the motherboard, then you need to find out why it's not getting to the LED board. Once agian, you may need to unplug and inspect evey connector and make sure there are no bent pins and they are all seated good. All it takes is one pin not making contact to kill the machine.

Just to make sure I have my Meter rite here is a pic of the settings, I know this is very basic to you all but when you don't use one of these on a regular bases it confuses me! Also a pic of the White power plug "unplugged" from board. I am getting conflicting reading compareing to schematic posted, what is the rite way to test this plug. Don't be afraid of using "really laymen words"!
I have looked and found no bent pin's.......................................................

You had the meter right. Standby on the readings you should get. I think Tilt may have posted the wrong pin to pin readings as they don't match the schematic.

Be sure to check F2 again.

Note the pin numbers on the schematic are are not in sequential order. Pin #1 is the one on the right side of the plug in your picture. To confirm, you should have 24vac across 5-6.

I went ahead and measured mine and this is what I get
1-3 7vac
2-4 8vac
5-6 24vac

Note: These readings were taken with the plug connected to the motherboard (but no MPU). The motherboard ties the commons 1-2 together (I verified this). Without the plug being connected, the readings mayl be screwy since the windings are seperate.

Just ready to post the "screwy" numbers till I seen your update, will go back and do it again with it plugged in. Might have to stand on my head for this test!
F2 still good.................

Your schematic shows the same values as Tilt's, but pin selection is diff.?

Completed test as follows with White plug plugged into mother board, no MPU.
1-3   8.9 VAC
2-4   7.6 VAC
5-6   8.6 VAC        With White plug unplugged from mother board I get 28.5 from 5-6 ...............

Hmmm...... 5-6 dropping that low when plugged in AND 2-3 reading low, looks like something may be shorted on that 7vac line causing the 24vac to drop. Or the power supply may have issues. However, I have been lucky and never had to mess with the power supply and am only going by the schematics. Hopefully someone else can help out more in that area. Plus your machine is a little different having the exposed transformer.

In any case your readings are not normal. Did you check for loose coins everywhere as Jim mentioned? You may want to unscrew the motherboard and remove it and look underneath it.

On a side note and not to confuse you, but maybe someone else knows. According to the S+ schematics, if pins 1-2 of J8 on the motherboard are tied together (and they are), that would mean pins 4-5 of J110 are tied together. But that would also mean the windings on the top half of the transofmer are shorted which would cause much smoke. So something is not quite right with the schematics. :103-

Poppo, I edited my post from the one you qouted as I did the first one wrong. Look at my revised values. Still the 5-6 is not rite plugged in ..................
Yes, checked for quarterts found none dang it!
And yes, lifted mother board and all looked real nice under there!

Ok, so something is causing the 24vac to drop when plugged in but with no MPU. Hmmm...I need to go look at the schematics again.

ok, here are all of the plugs that the 24Vac goes to. You may try unpugging all of them from the motherboard, then recheck 5-6. If it's ok, you can try plugging them in one at a time and see which one causes it to drop. Although I would think that anything causing it to drop that much would blow the fuse.  :103-

Note: The first one is the MPU, so don't worry about that one since the MPU is already out. You may not have a cable in every one listed.

AS if your head isn't spinning enough from my lame diagnoses I have a Correction, I lifted the MPU not the mother board and it all looked great. Tomorrow morn I will check the bottom of the mother board and report back............

Tilt, not a problem, love all the info I can get and believe it or not I do learn even if it's "suspect" info. Just knowing I questioned it is a move forward for me!

Poppo, makes sence, will try that in the morn and report back. Thanks!

On the PinBall machines I fixed I remember " voltage check points" on the circit boards, sure made it easier! Course having the rite schematics in front of me also helped......................

After looking at the schematics, I see that the 24vac does not go to too many places that your machine uses it.

You are not using:
J2
J5
J6
J9
J11 (it does not look like you have a bell)

So, barring finding a coin shorting under the the motherboard that only leaves:
J1
J5 (meters)
J10

Be sure to check the pins in J10. It's sort of back in the corner and might easier to get one bent.

Also, while not directly related to the 24vac, it looks like there was some work done on your motherboard at some point. At least one resistor appears to have been replaced. When you pull it up, inspect the bottom carefully for bad solder jobs.

something does not look right on the xformer schematic shown. I just spent the last 3 days tracking down a voltage issue on a 96 S+ machine and that is how I discovered the multitude of varying schematics. Verify how the terminals on secondary side of xformer are labeled. they are either 3-8 or 4-9. depending how they are numbered determines which schematic to use. I have now seen 3 differant schematics for S+ power supplies. page 59 of IGT S+ manual section 9, pages 69-72 of the players edge plus and S+ electronic repair manual (1994) and the schematic posted above. you need to determine which one applies to your machine. this may be why things are not measuring the way they should. Remember, for engineers it always works on paper, but humans built these things.
I wrote up a troubleshooting flow chart based on what I did to track down the issue on my machine. But I dont want to post it here if it may not apply to your situation.

I know I asked this before,and after looking at the fuse panel, I have to ask that you check the continuity thru each fuse holder. the top one looks like it has been modified to apply pressure to hold the fuse in ?  the way to do this--  there is a wire going in to the fuse and a wire coming out of the fuse place the meter leads on each wire, with the meter set to measure resistance(ohms), if all is well you should read basically a short across all three fuses if the fuse and holder are good.  this will eliminate any confusion as to the power getting to where it should be.


Jim

crashed86, I will check that out first thing, I can see where I could be chasing my tail using the wrong schematics info. Thanks.

Jim, was hoping no one would see that! When I was first checking fuses that one had broken holder tabs so not having any parts at the moment to keep testing I made a little clip/bracket to keep tension on it. When I get a parts list of things I will need I will be asking "where" to get them! I will check fuses with or method. Thanks

Jim, will have that board out in a little while for inspection. I find all this relaxing in a way but very time consuming at the same time, gotta get some chores done around the house than sneak away back to the slot................

A freind of mine came over the other day and was so excited to see a slot machine in person, know how many people haven't even seen or touched a slot? Anyway he wants one (among other things) now for his new man cave so I have posted on the classifieds a WTB in the WA. OR. ID. are. Maybe you guys have slot friends in the Pacific North West that may have one for sale? He's really looking for an older '30z '40z' 50z '60z '70z Art Deco type.  Thanks again to all, Lon

the end result of the wiring is this! J-8 on the motherboard Pin 1 starts toward the rear of the machine.pin 1 is a green wire,it is 7/8vac common, pin2 is a green wire, it is the 7/8 vac common, pin 3 is a blue wire  7vac, pin 4 is a brown/blue wire  8vac, pin5 is orange/green wire it is 24 vac hot, pin 6 is orange wire it is 24 vac return.

the wiring from the transformer:  on the right side 3 posts. 1=white/red ac common, 2= black/red 115vac hot,  3= black/violet 220vac.

on the left side 6 posts, three on the front ,three on the rear. Orange/black wire to F-1 6amp fuse ,out of the fuse as a orange/green to pin 5 of p-8, green wire directly to pin 1 on p-8, orange wire directly to pin6 of p-8, blue/black to F-2 8amp fuse comes out as a green wire to pin 2 of p-8, blue wire directly to Pin 3 of p-8, brown/blue to pin4  on p-8.
the resistor in question R-3 is a 3.9 ohm resistor   one side of the denomination lamp pad goes directly to the 7vac hot, the other side goes to R-3, thru R-3 and to Bgrnd.this could be why you don't read a voltage there. something could be wrong in that area. 
the best way to test the 24vac being dragged down is this: hook up your meter leads to pins 5/6 of P-8 .Push them into the top this will usually hold them for this test. plug into J-8 on the motherboard. apply power and observe the voltage, if it is down, turn off power. remove the board, apply power, observe meter if voltage is still down shut off power. remove all the plugs  going to the motherboard,(exceptP-8) apply power , observe meter see if the voltage stays at 24vac, if it does,  then turn off power insert one plug at a time and perform the same procedure until you find the one that is holding down the 24 vac.

Jim