New Life Games Tech Forums

I bought an S+ the other day that the owner said wasn't working properly, said it wasn't taking coins.  We powered it up there for a minute before we left.  The machine powered up.  The wheels were twitching a bit and the display had a flicker to it I believe it was showing a 41 error.  I didn't try anything else there.

I got it home, before powering it up again I noticed a lot of nickels back around the xfrmr and floating around the back.  I fished them all out.  Pulled the MPU and visually checked behind it.  Put the MPU back in and powered it up.  Nothing.  Just the Fluoros.  No other sounds, lamps, or reels.  Just appears dead.

I pulled the MPU board to put it in my other working S+ and noticed the battery had one leg completely loose.  I soldered it back.  Put it in my working S+ and had to clear the 61 error.  After that it came up and worked fine in my good S+ machine.  So I know the MPU and it's xfrmr is good.

I put it back in the original S+ and it's still completely dead.  I metered the xfrmr and at the connector going to the backplane and all the taps have the right voltages.  I've reseated all the connectors in the machine, still no dice. 

I'm scratching my head at this point.  Is it likely there could be a problem with the back plane card?  I know the MPU is good since it works in my other machine.

Anything you guys could suggest at this point would be great!.

Thanks.
Scott

Pay the electric bill... :200-

Check the 3 fuses?
Top=8A
Middle=6A
Bottom=8A

all quick blows

First thing I did was check the fuses.  I measured the xfrmr voltages at the connector that plugs into the backplane card too, which are after they have gone through the fuse....just in case there there was a problem with the fuseholder itself.

Hmm...try wiggling the harness that goes from the "x4mer" to the motherboard?
When you wiggle it with the power on...the reels should "hold"

Yeah, I tried doing that too....  no love :(

I'm still trying to figure out what a xfrmr and a x4mer are ?  Is that a new way of saying power supply?

 You fished out the nickels and looked behind the MPU, I think you had better look under the Mother Board  for coins.

xfmr is a standard abbreviation for transformer.

A transformer is a component of a power supply, but typically is not the entirety of the power supply.

As Buzz said, I'd check under the motherboard (the fixed board that sits on the bottom of the cabinet which the removable MPU board plugs into) for any stray coins or metal pieces, and then look closely at the connector that goes from the power supply to the motherboard.  Look on the outside and inside of the plug for signs of burning or obvious discoloration.

Based on what you've described, the power connection harness is a likely suspect.  With the power off, be sure to check all of the other connectors, too, to make sure they're seated correctly.  I'd suggest plugging and unplugging the harness that runs between the power supply and the motherboard a few times to help clean the contacts and insure that the power is getting to the motherboard.

I think Buzz was just being facetious. There are some 'standard' terms used here, and things sometimes get confusing when people start using other names. For example, 'backplane' is often used as the term for a board that others plug into. But here it's called a motherboard. And since the S+ power supply only has a transformer (i.e. no diodes, regulators, et.) it's just referred to as 'power supply'.

poppo, thanks for the explanation.

If Buzz had not asked it, I'm sure that I would have.

I have picked up on others here calling the backplane the "motherboard" which is completely bizarre to me.  Is that IGT's official term for it?  A motherboard is typicallly the main board in a device.  It defies comprehension that the: backplane, transition board, medusa card, whatever term you choose is actually being called a motherboard here.  I'd love to hear the logic for that.

There is a DC power supply in an S+, it is just integrated on the mainboard and not a seperate module.  Checking the power supply to me would still involve metering the DC voltage rails on the MPU board.

It is the official name used by IGT.  The 'main board' is the MPU.

And the term is technically correct because all other 'daughter' items plug into it.

Right from the IGT manual.

Thanks Poppo.  I was guessing it must have been an unfortunate mis-naming by IGT for it to have persisted here.  It also drive me nuts that they use the wrong form of "Embedded" for the Bill Acceptor.  It is an "Embedded Bill Acceptor", not an "Imbedded Bill Acceptor".

Either there was very poor communication between the Engineers and Technical Writers at IGTor they had some folks that were just fairly ignorant in their product design experience.  Having been an EE and Software Engineer designing products and systems for many years, abuse of terminology drives me nuts.

Oh well, back to scratching my head over this S+.   :103-

I think you were given some good advice earlier. First check the power cable from the power supply to the motherboard. If it's not making good contact, then the whole power distribution is going to be screwed up. If a coin got under the motherboard, it may have burned up a power trace or just shorting something that will prevent the MPU from booting.

Also re-seat every connector on the motherboard.

I have gone through and reseated all the connectors to the "motherboard" ;) 

The next thing is to pull the motherboard out and check it.  It has foam gasketing around the bottom that makes it appear like a pretty tight fit, but it is the next most logical issue.  I had planned to try and swap with my good S+ to verify it.  The bad machine has the motherboard MPU on the left and the good S+ has it in the back behind the hopper, so it is more of a pain to swap.

I agree I was a little suspicious of the power connector.  It appears fine and I've reseated it and wiggled it, but I know those contacts can be problematic.  I planned to check it again by metering the underside of the motherboard with it plugged in after pulling it out.

they mean exactly the same thing, what's the big deal?

After doing some googling, it seems embedded is the more popular term. But I agree, they are synonyms.

Having done EMBEDDED systems design for many years.  I see the word "embedded" frequently used in many different contexts by many manufacturers and authors.  I have never ever once seen anyone spell it as "imbedded."  Frankly it makes someone at IGT look fairly ignorant and as an Engineer that has to pay attention to details for a living it bugs the f--k out of me seeing it :)

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1440571 (http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1440571)

But you just did above.  :72-


No offense, but thrashing IGT and the terms they have been using for decades is not going to help get your machine fixed. People are here to help with the problem, and not be the grammar police.

Alright, on the ground and spread'em mister  :68-    :97-

I pulled the "motherboard" out tonight and I'm pretty sure I see the problem now!  The trace coming off J8 pin 1+2 is burned off.  I'm wondering what caused that.  The MPU board seems to run fine in my other S+ so nothing appears to be fried that would have caused this. 

The schematics I have are a fairly poor scan.  Are pins 1 and 2 on J8 supposed to be bussed together on the PCB?  When I measure the burned trace it goes to both Pin 1 and 2.  This could be possible since those are both Common terminals for the 2 sets of windings.

Anyone see this happen before?

What happened is something inside the machine fell onto nearby contacts for more than a
momentary moment and shorted out...sparks flew and forced the
piece of metal elsewhere in the machine.
This, of course, ....is  PURE SPECULATION on my part.... :96-



uh...IGT does nothing "logical".... :72- :208-

For example...sometimes they label a 2 coin machine chip with a number like SB100053.
However, the 3 coin machine chip will have a label with a number like SB100052!!!!!  :5-
Confuses the heck outta people! lol

Yes.

Damage was probably from a coin floating around at some point. Since that connector is in the front, even with the foam, it would be easy to have one slide under and hit the contacts.

Or you could have a short somewhere else since the motherboard distributes power to other things besides the MPU

At least we agree IGT is not logical ;)

Your speculation is very probable, but I'm not seeing anything it could have shorted to is the thing.  There was the clear plastic shield on top that covers most of it and I can't see where any other shorting could have occurred. 

Looking closer at the solder side of the PCB I can see where pins 1/2 are bussed together so that answers that question.  My eyes aren't what they used to be.

That's because it's in somebody's pocket now as change... :96-



Anyways, 24Vac at 6A rating runs through the J8...should NOT be "fused" together!!! lol
Unless you meant buss fused?
By the way guys "IGT does use "xfmer" in their schematics!  ( okay, "PWR XFMER":72- )
Maybe this will help you? >>>

I meant I can't see anywhere a coin could have shorted that trace too.

We're talking about pins 1/2 on J8 which connect to Xfrmr taps #5 and #7.  Those two pins are in fact bussed together on the PCB.

I agree with you but I'll tell you what.
IGT made a boo-boo when they left about a 1/4 opening the top of
the right -hand side of the Power Supply box.
Coins love to get into that little opening!
It's possible it had shorted in there behind the 6A fuse holder as well.

Pull the wall plug, remove the one single screw on the left hand side of the
Power supply case and lift off the cover.
Peer around inside near the 6A fuse...
I'll bet a gadzillion bucks you will see something black in there!

If not, as least you'll be able to clean out whatever's in there
and I don't have a gadzillion bucks either...

Yes. 1&2 are the 'commons' for the ac voltages. So anything else shorted on those ac lines or to one of the other pins on J8 will cause  :98-

There were lots of coins behind the fuse holders and around the transformer when I got it.  My guess at this point is that the one of the fuse holders on the unfused side or transformer taps got shorted.  This would have caused more current to flow through the common side of the transformer which would have gone through those traces.

That's about the only possibility of a short that would explain it, especially since there were no blown fuses and the MPU was good.

Unless someone changed the fuse before you started working on it.

As already noted, the power coming in on J8 goes to other things besides the MPU. So just because the MPU is good, does not mean there isn't a short on some other line. For example the 24vac hot that goes to the motherboard then gets sent to the meters (among othe places).

Also are you sure there somebody didn't bypass the fuses. It would not be the first time.

<edit> Or as proten said - the fuse may have already been changed thinking it would fix the problem.

In that case the fuse should have blown before taking the trace out.  That is if it is properly engineered, which given some of the other things pointed out in this thread I wouldn't be as certain about ;)

There was a lot of heat involved as it burned the coating off the majority of the length of the trace before it failed and since it was a power trace it was pretty beefy to start with.

They had moved it to their garage before we got there.  We powered it up in their garage and it did power up, but I could tell something was wrong as there was a I believe a 41 error and the wheels were twitching and the display and lights pulsating.  So I'm guessing it was shorted at that point.  When I got home I noticed all the coins during the inspection BEFORE I ever applied any power and removed them all.  When I first powered it up at that point it was dead.

Have you checked the fuse value? Maybe someone stuck a 20 amp fuse in there.

Yes, fuse values were correct.  No 20A no-blows in there.

Well, then just fix the trace and smoke check it.

Already done!  She fired right up and worked.  Couldn't really play it as the garage is right below the bedroom.  I'm gonna do some burn-in time on it tomorrow.

Not bad for a $180 investment :)

If you turn the sound off via the blue dial on the MPU board and make sure that credit mode is enabled (no hopper motor or coins to the tray), you should be able to play it without disturbing anyone in the bedroom above. In fact, you probably could get by with a low volume setting.

I did notice today one of the $5 worth of nickels I had pulled out of the machine had a pretty nice burn mark on it. ;)

Everything is working with the machine now.  I just need to figure out what the parts I need are to convert it from nickel to quarter.

You would need at the minimum coin head, Quarter Spacer for the optics and hopper unless your hopper can handle quarters.

 

Minimum Stuff - (Upright)

Coin Head Backing Plate
Coin In Encoder for Optics
Shelf Wheel for Hopper
Denom Legend
Quarter for Coin Mech
Set Chip for BV if Equipped

Best to replace the Hopper Knife and Agitator at same time, easier but a bit more money complete Coin Head

Half Ass Way - but cheapest, (no I never have... Never Will, but seen many over the years)
Open up coin head with 2 hacksaw blades, open up coin encoder if jambs, hopper well just don't cash out much

ok last stuff was so someone didn't post it saying you can get by without parts, but have seen a bunch like it

Jim,

Thanks.  You should know I don't do it half ass by now :)

Can you shoot me a quote for it in PM?  I won't need the Set chip or the denom legend.

Scott

I like your new avatar, Jim.  I was starting to get really confused as of late when Foster changed his to the Tabasco glass, too.

A "REEL" good friend on here made it for me for some odd reason, thanks for noticing it

It's good that you changed it. You are "unique", in a good way of course.....

W

I wonder if the power supply shorted out with those coins around it and possibly could also
Short out the backplane Board.