New Life Games Tech Forums

I have an old machine, 2 coin, built in 1992. I was curious to see what the long term payout % was so I tiook these numbers off the meters. Could someone tell me if my math is right? The payout % seems too low.

coin in 531,369
coin out 343,740
drop 2,110,779
attendant paid 11,976
tot games 468,990

If the formula is (coin-out + attendant paid)/(coin in) then the payout is 66.9%.

I would include the drop into the formula too...
Leaving the drop out would be like figuring out how miles per gallon your car gets when only going downhill... :71-

What's the difference between drop and coin in on a slot? I don't get it. Could you share the return % formula with me? I bet there are others who would like to know too. Thanks!

Just my 2 cents. It is nearly impossible using meter readings unless you have had since day one of machine. Based on the numbers you have given it is not possible. Since total games is 468K+ X 2 coins,  the max possible coin in is 936K+, and yet the drop shows 2+ million. Meters may have turned over, and over, etc.

Now if this machine is elctro-mech. figuring payout percentage is easy.

If step based, then a par sheet is needed.

Could you not just use the meters at whatever value they are at. Then use the Deltas to calculate % after a certain amount of play.

Yep. I'll use these numbers as a starting point. thx

I'm curious, what brand machine do you have?

Sigma Patriot Plus 777 slant top PT-4B

My PT-4B was real close to the percentage of payback. Electronic meters, which can be reset(not the mechanical ones), showed 2.45 million plays and 9 top jackpots. The PT-4B used 64 step reels for stand alone units. That's 262,144 play combinations, and should result in 1 top award. I have the Par Sheet. You can actually determine your own par sheet with the PT-4B, however you will probably die before going thru all 262K+ combinations, which it can do. Your resetible meters, will also show everything from the number of 1 coin, 2 coin, 3 coin plays, # of bills for each bill denom. and all the other stuff we may care to know about. To access more data than just turning key for meters, try open top, push test button near on/off switch, then turn meter key within 3 seconds I think, and a completely different set of statistics will appear, from how many days, hours and minutes since last jackpot, to all the errors that may occur, to how many times the machine has been played, in millions. Machine must be reset every million plays. I sold my machine to a new member here. Don't know his NLG handle or if he is even active. He has a manual I gave him. Perhaps he will chime in.

I just bought a manual on ebay so when that gets here I'll be in much better shape. I had no clue how to access the electronics so I appreciate the input!

I'm looking to replace the bill acceptor - any ideas on how to do it cheap?

Good luck on the BV. Perhaps those in the know can chime in. The PT-4B used a 145-SG or SH. I don't think there is going to be any upgrades. 3-4 new bills come out this year and I don't think they are going to have new software for the 145's. Others here have the answer. I think perhaps a 200 head may work if it has the proper id protocol. Can someone else here clarify.  If your bv still cycles, any $1.00 should work, but others won't, unless they are the older small head bills.

I don't know the Sigma, but if it's anything like the S+, it will show you each of the virtual stops for each reel, so you could map out the three reels in as few as 64 readings for a 64 stop machine. Of course, the method that it uses to display these stops will probably be different than an IGT machine. However, if the machine will do this, then figuring out the payback and making your own PAR will be easy.


If your dbv takes old money, you might want to start saving any older-style bills that you get, although they are getting hard to find. You can also ask the bank teller if they have any old bills, and you can keep asking them on every visit until you get enough for your game room. Just a thought.