New Life Games Tech Forums

0k lets see what info is out there if you had to send boards out for repair who would you pick and who have you had a bad experience with.   lets all share

the best  man is Clive Jones at :

The Coin-Op Cauldron

http://webpages.charter.net/coinopcauldron/Index.html (http://webpages.charter.net/coinopcauldron/Index.html)

I do pinball board repairs, I know I am biased, but all my customers are happy with my service. Visit my website at
www.coinopdoc.com (http://www.coinopdoc.com)   
I am glad to answer any questions. Feel free to call me or post here.
I am a new member here so I got to get used to this forum.
Tom

Tom we offer free banner adds, if you can do the recipocle thats great if not its still free.
Contact Joey at the top right hand number on the home page.

These work well, http://www.allteksystems.com/ If you have a Bally or Stern. Give these a close look.
2Moons

   Thanks for the info. They are a good alternative if you have a board that is badly damaged with battery acid. If not , it is cheaper to fix your original, and they are still very reliable.I have fixed some of those altek boards too.
Tom

Been sending boards to George & his son john for 15yrs good work there....http://www.eldoradogames.com/ (http://www.eldoradogames.com/)

Dave

hi pinball guys,
hey! Does anyone know if Williams Electronics Games division
is still in the business of distributing/selling parts for their older machines?
I'm looking for some board components for a 1989 wms shuffle bowler.

They are no longer in the pin biz, the slot rights was bought by a company in AU who did nothing with it other then selling remfg parts.

www.pinball.com (http://www.pinball.com)

A pinball fan / rich guy bought the left over parts when they closed.  The company name is IPB who still sells parts.

http://www.illinoispinball.com/oscommerce/ (http://www.illinoispinball.com/oscommerce/)

However you will find that most parts avail are from the 90's + era.


There are whole host of other places that sells parts so search around!

I have a Hook, Diner and a Lethal Weapon 3 that some segments of the lights have stopped working and I wonder if it is the power boards or the molex connectors or both. Some backglass lights are out on all 3 machines, the sling shot lights are out on the LW3 and there is some component that is missing on the Hook board and I can't get a knocker to work on the Hook. All fuses are good.  How about fuse holder replacement on boards ? If I sent out all 3 power boards will someone do a diagnostic check and repair if necessary or what ? I remember a post here that said that a diagnostic check that showed the board to be good was done at no charge by someone.
Frank A

9 out 10 times it's the Molex connector burning up.  The pins / connector / wires get cooked overtime which raises the heat level and will finally fail (resistance).   Check for burn marks and loose wires around the GI light connectors.   It's been some time for me so I don't remember the Jxx #

My Diner is suffering the same fate.....

Make sure you pictorizlie your repair so I can do the same.

Hello PinBall People:
I have used this supplier & all of his stuff has worked well for me.
http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/bally_kits.htm#b-ps18conn1 (http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/repairkits/bally_kits.htm#b-ps18conn1)
Give him a look & good luck 2Moons

CFH one of the NLG members also has a good info page on this issue (plus a complete repair guide)

For the DEast Games see

http://www.pinrepair.com/de/index1.htm#connect (http://www.pinrepair.com/de/index1.htm#connect)

see section 2c

For diner see

http://www.pinrepair.com/sys11/index1.htm#connect (http://www.pinrepair.com/sys11/index1.htm#connect)

also section 2c

Plus it might help with the other issues asked like Knocker, Matrix lights out etc. 

Complete guides

http://www.pinrepair.com/de/ (http://www.pinrepair.com/de/)
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys11/ (http://www.pinrepair.com/sys11/)

Thank you to all. The Marvin repair guides are invaluable in what they can teach us. I will keep everyone informed as to my progress.

Frank

Thanks!,
I will take a look around...I found a new set of pins so far! :89-

Okay,
Picked up a 1978 Stern "Stars" pinball machine... :184-
All lights are working, but when the kicker kicks the ball into the outlane after pushing start, the game goes into tilt. :8-
Sometimes it tilts just pushing the start/credit button. :37-
When in test switch light diagnostic test, all the bulbs do their slow flashing but they are very, very dim. :60-
A power supply problem? :103-
All the power molexes look very good actually... :129-

The first then I would check with the tilt problem would be to check out the tilt sw, and the slam sw. Both should be normally open. A closed sw will put you in a tilt mode. Make sure contacts aren't to close together, and the vibration is closing them!

I see that there are 4 tilt switches on this Stern pinball machine.
1). The hanging bob (no bob - just a plain wire hanging down)
2). The slam switch under the behind the coin door (Contacts spread wide apart)
3). The table tilt switch. ( Also spread wide apart)
4). The ball in tray level tilt. ( There's no ball in it to ground as to cause a tilt)

Basically, the machine is already set up so it cannot tilt...
With that in mind, and the dim lights during lite diagnostics -
Because of this symptom, I am still suspecting a failing power supply.

Does the Stern MPU 100 board need a battery to run?
It looks like it fell off sometime ago...
( there's no real perceptible acidic damage to the board as far as I can see using a desktop lighted magnifier )
Maybe I need to make a "remote" battery back-up pack?
I am of understanding that the only reason for the MPU to have a battery
is only for high score memory retention, certain settings back-ups,etc... right?
Not having a battery would cause the machine to tilt immediately after ejecting a ball into the shooter lane?
If this battery pack , or single battery is needed - what type of battery is needed?

 

Sounds like your sw's are tilt free. With the problem you said about slow, dimming lites sounds more of a power supply problem or connectors. There should of been a battery (soldered on) on the bottom of the mpu board. Best to replace with a remote battery pack (3 "aa" batteries w/ diode), the same as with a slot. All voltages should be present, the 5 volt, 12 volt and 48 volt. If you have a manual it should show the voltage test points. I had the game years ago and will check if I still have a manual. Capacitors of the era game are also a major problem. I will look for manual today!

Check this:  http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/index1.htm#tp

wow, that site has a lot of good stuff...thanks :3-
I'll be working on this pinball machine forever...lol
Basically, I think i need to start checking coil resistances. :89-
Then check the power supply output voltages...whew!
This isn't gonna be easy...lol
from the reading I've been doing, it looks like the marvin repair site guide,
provided by CFH, is a pretty darn good source of information to start with.  :89-

Stout, pinrepair.com is Clay's site, and Clay maintains Marvin's site. :89- :71-

It's working!!!!! :89- :89- :89- :89- :89-
A bad molex on the power supply board...Changed one burned out trifurcon pinto get everything working perfectly!
I think it's amazing that's all it was... :5-

Now I'm just-a-shinin' it all up and replacing the old scratched up glass.
A little touch up here and there and it should be just like new!
 :136-

You can ease the load on that ageing power supply by relamping.
#44 lamps = 250ma #47 lamps = 150ma #47 Led's =  15ma x how ever many lamps are in your machine.
Most of the machines of that era have about 100 lamps. you do the math. I have used the products from Cris on
Ebay & they work well.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pinball-LED-BULBS-44-47-and-555-styles-quantity-100_W0QQitemZ140338360011QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20acd16ecb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Pinball-LED-BULBS-44-47-and-555-styles-quantity-100_W0QQitemZ140338360011QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20acd16ecb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)
2Moons

Not working today...hmm...crazy game.
I checked the 5 "TP" test points on the recifier power board.
Seems like all TP's are way below 10%...
Now I know it's the power supply...has the machine acting funny.
These are the nutty symptoms:
1).Even though I have it set to accept a quarter as 1 credit...it gives me 15...lol
2).After the 15 credits come on, the lights go out when I push the credit button.
3).When it comes back on, I push the credit button again but it does the same thing.
4).I pull the ball out manually and press the credit button then it works, but...
5).When the ball comes down the playfield and hits a center rollover switch...the game tilts...lol
6).I removed the + wire to these 2 rollovers but it still tilts when the ball goes into the drop hole.
7).I get a single red flash on the MPU board, a slight pause, then it blinks 6 times afterwards
and then the game somewhat comes on.
8).All the dip settings from yesterday (when it was working right) are "lost". Even though, I didn't change any dips today.
9). Sometimes when I drop a coin, I hear 1 single ding but no credit registered. The coin just falls into the box.
10). I can get the same effect grounding out the two wires going to the coin in switch...
it's either 1 ding (with no credit) or 15 credits...lol
Basically, it seems that because there's no battery, all the CMOS remembers is nothing.
When I checked to see with the test switch what what saved in the memory,
someone must have played it during the night about 14,000 games, or
There's like 184 credits in it when the board doesn't have a setting any higher than 40 credit tops....lol
It's almost as if the chip is corrupted because the left outside lane switch acts as my creidt switch sometimes...lol
I don't get it....Argghhh!!   

Take a deep breath, relax, focus on the main problem. #1 get the power supply & the connectors up to snuff. Once you get this done, the other goofey problems that you having may well go away. First and formost, Get the power supply & connectors squared away. Here is a link to a place to get replacement parts. This should get you pointed in the right direction.
http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/index.htm (http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/index.htm) Take a look around this suite, and I belive you will get the idea, right real quick.
Good Luck 2Moons

Given our long time history with STOUT, his auto-bet options and remote control contraptions...... I am not discounting that 14000 games got mysteriously played over night.....  :79-

On a serious note K+ to both of you. Good thread - I am learning lots and thanks for the link to the power connectors.

I went shopping at Big Daddy's...I think I bought the store...lol
Now eagerly awaiting the parts for restoration...this is kinda fun really... :89-
It's just like rebuilding or restoring S+'s in a way...you take your time and get a nice finished machine! :71-

Put in a new rectifier board today in the 1978 Stern Stars pinball machine.
i still have the same problems with the game tilting.
When the ball runs over the 500pt rollover,
(there's two rollovers, one up top and another in the middle of the field above the flippers)
the game tilts and I lose the entire credit.
I cannot get it to allow me to play more than one player.
I also can never play more than one ball either.
When I miss the ball with my flippers and it goes down in the hole, the machine tilts and I lose the entire game/credit.
When I push the credit button, the game loads up, a ball gets ejected out
onto the right-outer start lane, but tilts when it goes over the rollovers. :8-
I checked out the rollover switches...they seem okay to me? They're not stuck or anything.
Think something's wrong with the game chips?
Is there a way to clear the ram.
Would it help?
This machine now has a new rectifier and a new SDU-100 board.
I've already spent more in boards, and parts than what I actually paid for it! arghhhh!
help!

Check for any closed switches on playfield. Switches might be sending false info to mpu if closed. Also might be bad diodes on sw"s. If you have a print find all of the sw's on the sw matrix that are associated with the 500pt rollover sw. Might be a place to start. Bad diodes send funny signals. Check clay's repair guide again on the pinrepair site. Good luck!
Jim!

I was reading some of the information on those switch diodes...
I understand that I need to remove one end and read them-
How do I set up my multi-meter to check them?
The diodes keep the power from going backwards I think?

The first thing you can do is put the machine in the switch test mode. Once you are there you will want to go through the switches on the playfield and make sure that the switch you push corresponds to the switch number in the manual.

Another thing you can try is this. Once you have a game started you should be able to unplug the connector from the bottom right corner of the CPU board. This plug is for the switches on the coin door. See if the problem remains.

Is there Corrosion on the CPU board from the battery leaking? Is it near the molex plug on the bottom right corner? If so you could be getting crosstalk through the corrosion.

You mentioned that the game would not keep it's settings and that there were something like 1400 plays on it after setting all night. If you have no battery hooked up then this is what will happen. the Cmos ram will get corrupted. Also the Cmos ram (5101) can have corrosion inside the socket where it is plugged in . This could be The cause of the switch problem also. When these Ram go bad they can cause the game to do all sorts of strange things.

One last thing you can try if you have the pinout for the playfield is put the game in test mode and remove the upper right connector from the
cpu board. This is the connector that goes to the playfield switches. Once removed if you know what your doing you can activate each switch one at a time by jumping the correct pins together. If all switches light correctly on the display then you know your problem is in the playfield.

Diodes are a one way device. To check a diode first it must be removed from the circuit. Secondly you check it using a multimeter set to resistance.

Current flows from Positive to Negative ..... So to look at a diode you will likey see it described like something like the following. ------>|------
Use your RED lead on the Left side and your BLACK on the right.  You should be able to get continuity one way but if you reverse your leads it should not give you any reading.  Its bad if you get continuity in both directions or no continuity at all. With that said if you have an idiot proof automated meter that auto reverses polarity (to stop the meter from blowing) check to see if it has a specific diode setting as these don't work well for fine electronic uses.

 

awesome suggestions guys, :71-
I will go through these tests monday evening after work... :71-
I will post an update on my findings as soon as I get through them.... :89-

Do the switch matrix tests as described. The diodes are very reliable and ususally not the problem. On many of those older games they used small disc capacitors across the switch to widen the pulse to the cpu. For some reason they become leaky and cause wierd switch matrix problems as you describe. The capacitors are not nessasary for the game or switches to work. I suggest removing 1 side of each cap 1 at a time until you find the one that cures your problem, or remove them all perminately. One moe possibility is a shorted wire going to the coin door. After putting on credits, and starting a game, unplug the door and see if the problem still exists. Feel free to call me for any assistance.
Tom
410-833-8070

Hello
Long about now this probably the last thing that you want to here, but you are at the point where you need to start ruling some things out. (If you don't know what it is - find out what it isn't.) If you swap out the MPU board you can rule out about 90% of where the problem is. I have used these replacement MPU boards & they are great.
http://www.allteksystems.com/ (http://www.allteksystems.com/)
It will cost you some money, but it is better than chasing your tail in a circle.
Good Luck 2Moons

thanks to everyone...
I ordered one of those Alltek MPU boards...
It's not a cheap fix at all ,
but I want to see if it's indeed the motherboard that's causing all of this...
By the way,
I've tried disconnecting different molexes (sometimes the playtable,the door,etc.) to see what's up...
but I'm still getting these weird play symptoms.
That's why I ordered a new board.
I will keep everyone updated when it comes in....
the board seems pretty cool having a number of game titles dip-switchable...hmm...

I didn't see any prices on the site. How much are they ?

Frank

well, mine was $199.00....
like I said not cheap but I can't wait to get it!...LOL

Click on this link to the Bally/Stern MPU board >>>

http://www.allteksystems.com/ (http://www.allteksystems.com/)

Hello Stayouttabunker
I believe you have made a good decision. If you read the sheet that comes with the Alltek board, set the dip switches & follow the directions. The installation is a no brain-er. The MPU is the heart & brain of your pinball. It controls over 90% of what goes on in your machine. I'm betting this will solve the goofy intermitt ant problems that you are having. The original MPU boards, after 30 years of service are a garden for cold solder joints. This along with the el cheapo chip sockets that they used & a little corrosion from a leaking battery will cause all sorts of problems. The good news is these old CPU boards can be updated, repaired & put back in service. If your good at soldering you can do it your self and the parts don't cost a lot of money. Or there are a lot of good board repair shops out there. After you get the original MPU repaired & back in service, you can keep the Alltek board in your tool box for the next pinball that you need to repair. The alltek board switch hits on so many differant machines that it has made my life a lot easier many times.
Good Luck 2Moons

You're right!
I got the alltek board in yesterday   :91-   and installed it last night!  :89-
It was a piece of cake....!
I played the crap outta it for hours!!!!! :72- :72- :72- :72-

So it was the MPU board...jeesh !..., after all the frigging fiddling around with the bloody power supply,
under table wiring,switches and solenoid diodes,checking for this, checking for that arghhh!!!!   :96-

I learned a lot about my Stern Stars pinball machine though....
now I'm gonna do some mods....lol  
I gotta make one of those ball return gates... :79-
How can I do that?..... lol

Hello Stayouttadabunker:
It's good to here that your story has a happy ending. You had ask about a ball return spring, because these are made out of spring steel, they are very difficult to make. this link may take you to what you need. http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MX-12-6857&Category_Code=

I don't know what condition the rubber on your pinball is in. New rubber will make it play like a new machine. Check this out.
http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RK-98&Category_Code=GS-2366&Product_Count=0 (http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RK-98&Category_Code=GS-2366&Product_Count=0)
Remember - Stayouttadabunker & Good Luck 2Moons

haha...yeah, I already installed new rubbers and stuff from some kit I got a month ago...

As far as the "spring steel"...
I really meant to make one of these and put it on my machine.
I outlined the area I wanted to modify...
Click on the picture to enlarge it!
I'd like it to open when I get all the targets down when the "WOW!" is complete.
Could this mechanism be called a "Ball Divertor"?
Maybe I can somehow get it to stay open for like 30 seconds or so?
Could I wire the gate in sync somehow when all the targets are knocked down?... :91-
( The first picture is just some picture I got off the internet...It's not my Stern "Stars" pinball machine)
The second lower picture is where I want to install a gate on my "Stars" game>>>

Hello
That's a good looking pinball, (looks like a keeper to me). I don't know what you would call that little gismo. If you have a Stern manual, look up the part # & nomenclature, search it on line & I'll bet you can find one.
Good Luck 2Moons

I would advise not to try a modification such as that.  The software doesn't support something like that, nor is their wiring in place to support it either.  Plus, you'd be butchering up a very nice looking classic Stern.  A great looking Stern Stars is hard to come by (there are not that many left out there), please......please.....please don't ruin it!

Yes thats when stern  build pins that lasted the cheap crap gary makes now is a sin  , Must be nice to be only game maker left

I didn't do it...  :72-
First of all, the machine was sitting in a barn for who knows how long.
The place was damp and cold...I looked around the barn and
every tool that was laying around was rusted.
All the metal in the machine was actually starting to rust and
the guy I got it from used the play-field as a table top for his tools and junk.
The glass was scratched like heck...this pinball was NOT taken good care of.
I've taken the time to clean, polish and sandpaper, prime and
paint everything back to as original as possible.
I've spent a lot of time replacing various play-field parts to
get the machine looking really respectable again and working properly.
The battery had corroded the MPU and THAT needed major repair.
Many board components and various switch diodes were shot,
I completely rebuilt the solenoid board according to
the marvin website (Which is a fabulous pinball repair site! :131-).
The solenoid puts out all the correct power at the various test TP points.
The power supply board is brand new, which is great because it puts out all the various power correctly now.
I got the Alltek MPU board with the tester card which is a blessing!
Gotta admit though, after all the money and time I was putting into it, I wanted to...
So, with all this in mind...
The way I feel is that whatever modifications I make to
enhance MY enjoyment of this pinball machine is entirely up to me and
I will not accept second class repairs or mods...
I am making totally sure that whatever I do is done only in the topmost way.
I am restoring this machine as best as I can and I don't go move forward until
I do a lot of research and get as much information about
what I want to do as possible before I move on.
You can do a restoration to where it's as close to original as possible or
you can do a restoration and upgrade it to the way YOU want it so YOU can get what YOU want out of it...
I already installed a nice bell that rings in accordance with the "Knocker"...it's sweet! :89-

I have a question...
I have a nice, red ambulance light/beacon that rotates...
It needs power to run the bulb and to run the motor that rotates it.
It takes 12Vac and needs about 850mA.
The power supply has 12Vac coming out of the transformer at pins 15 and 16.
Running a wire to those points enables the beacon to operate correctly.
I want the beacon to turn on for the duration of when the "Shoot Again" playfield light is lit up.
That "Shoot Again" lite turns off when you lose the ball.
The bulb in the "Shoot Again" playfield light is a #47 6.3Vdc bayonet style ( maybe 25 Watts?) that draws .15Amps.

What are the correct specifications for a relay?
And, should there be a 1N4001 in place in front of the relay switch?

Any help on this would be great!

Wattage of 47 bulb is about 0.9Watts

P=I x E

P = Power in watts
I  = Currrent in amps
E = Volts

I have seen small diodes connected in parallel to the coil relays
Honda did on the 2001 and newer Goldwings.
The diode was reverse biased so it would not be a direct short.
I am not sure what the real reason they did it.

You could but a 1N4001 diode in series with a 5V Relay that would get the 6.3V down to approximately 5.5V
Use relay that the coil only needs about 50-100mA.
I would not exceed 150mA.
 
 

It's to dump the magnetic energy out of the core. When you apply voltage, current flows and the core becomes magnetized - that's why the relay pulls in (duh). When you break the circuit to drop out the relay, the magnetic field starts to collapse, which tries to maintain the current flowing (principle of inductors). Since the circuit is open, the voltage rises until current flows again. The energy has to go somewhere, and by hook or by crook it will, making enough voltage to arc a contact or break down a transistor. The diode across the coil provides a path for the current to flow round until the energy dissipates, without reaching a damaging voltage. All solid state circuitry with relays has diodes across the coils. If you can't see them, that's because they're wired in out of sight somewhere, maybe inside a chip.

Here's how to connect a 6V DC relay across a 6V AC lamp. In this case, D1 provides the DC, and D2 provides a current path during the "off" half of the AC to keep the current flowing so that the relay doesn't buzz too badly. A typical 6V relay with 3A contacts will be about 60 to 100 ohms resistance. If that's too much current for the driver, you can always connect the lamp to one of the contacts.

I tried a (SPST) single pull single throw 5VDC Reed Relay that's rated 0.5A at 125VAC...
It has two contacts for the 6.3Vdc coil that is switching (open and closing) the 12VAC beacon wires.
The specs for this relay is as follows:
Voltage: 5VDC
Coil Resistance:250Ohms
Contact Rating:0.5A at 125VAC
Nominal Current:20mA

When I hooked this up to the bulb's 6.3 Volt directly, it worked for a bit...
but after a few times the coil wouldn't "open" the 12VAC line to shut off the beacon...
I had to physically un-solder the 12VAC line to the relay coil to shut off the beacon.

I was not using any diodes connecting to this relay using the playfield 6.3 VDC bulb to the relay coil.
The beacon's positive 12VAC was connected to other side of the relay...
The relay seemed to stay locked (closed) and the beacon wouldn't shut off when the playfield light went out.
Plus, for lie about 15 seconds,  the 6.3Vdc bulb would be very, very dim while the beacon was "On",
then it would get very bright and wouldn't shut off the beacon.
Something isn't right on my hook up.

The relay won't shut off the beacon...like it's "stuck"?
Too much voltage to the coil, but not enough to keep the playfield light bright?
 If this is so, how do I reduce the DC voltage to the coil from the bulb?
Maybe because the coil is using 12dc while the other side of the relay
is using Vac screwing up the relay from working correctly?

ADD>> oh!,
The coil got magnetized? That's why it couldn't get un-stuck (re-open)?
okay, so, for the coil I have (the SPST 5VDC reed relay) I need to add a 1N4002?
Will it release the 6.3VDC voltage powering the relay's coil?

Reed relays have a bad habit of getting welded shut if you use them for inductive loads. They're really designed for small signals like your voice in a telephone exchange, not for power switching. To make matters worse, reed relays are extremely fast. It could have been opening and closing the circuit 120 times a second, arcing away like the light on the Luxor inside the coil where you couldn't see it. So yeah, you should hook it up with diodes, and since reed relays are very low inductance you might also need a capacitor across the coil, say about 22uF 16V, positive to the diode stripes. That would be to stop the reed buzzing and arcing. There's not much you can do to protect the contacts, but putting a 0.1uF 250V capacitor across might help save them. (Yes, I mean 250V).

From what you're saying...
it seems that the reason why the playfield bulb got brighter is because
the coil was dumping the magnetic energy out and saw a way out by the bulb...
so the bulb got really bright.
I had some action going on under there!  :96- :72-

Okay,  Instead of putting a cap on it,
what size/type relay and diode would you suggest for this modification/application?
The bottom one is the SPST 5Vdc relay I tried. (I think the coil got welded closed)
The top one (24VAC) doesn't "close" when the 6Vdc from the playfield bulb was applied to it>>>

I don't know - it bothers me that you said the light got really dim first. That shouldn't have happened. Then when it was bright, as long as the light was on, ie getting power, so was the relay coil, so there was no energy being dumped. I'd be inclined to check the wiring rather carefully and inspect the relay with an ohm meter, in case the 12V was somehow making it to the coil contacts and the lamp.

As long as you need to shop for parts, I'd suggest you go solid state with a triac. That would be cheaper than a relay and put no load on the lamp driver, and triacs are particularly made for switching AC power. Anyone who can sell you a triac will be able to advise you on the right kind.

Those dummies at Radio Shack in my town have triacs in the shelving cabinet,
but I'll probably have to show them what a triac is... :25- Arghhh!
I know for sure they won't be able to help me.... :97-

I want to point out that my bulb ("LAMP" in your drawing) is 6 VDC
but the drawing is showing the bottom line connected to the 12Vac...
should it be like that?

With a triac, there has to be one pin common between the gate driver and the load. There may already be a common connection between the 12VAC and 6V ground, and if so, connect as above. If there's no connection between 12V and 6V, you have the choice of which side to use. I should point out that although I've never closely examined a pinball PCB, I'm almost certain that all the AC coil drivers will be triacs, not transistors, therefore there will probably be a common between the AC circuit and the board supply. Note, however, nothing says that common has to be 0V!!!!! You may find one side of the AC supply is tied to +12, +24, or whatever voltages are present up there. Probe carefully before connecting!

Sod's Law, triac corollary: "If you put a fuse in series with a triac, the triac will blow first and protect the fuse".  :50-

I ddint realize that would actually happen.

Or, you can use a solid state relay! Those are essentially an opto-isolator and a triac in one package. You drive them like turning on an LED, and the other side switches AC with no common connection to the DC.

As it happens, there's a little group of suitable solid state relays right in the middle of every IGT S+ board. Skinny packages about 1 inch long, 1/8 inch thick, 1/4 inch high, with four pins in a line.

Oh, that's cool... :89-
I have a few junk old S+ boards too!
I will try to locate them later today and
see if I can find the relay package you've mentioned... :71-
Thank you  so much for your help on this guys!
I am learning so much about electronic circuitry it's unbeleivable! :5-

Ah yes, system grounds....  I had some excitement many years ago when I was debugging a kluged video board driving a old tv converted to a monitor.  Turns out the old tv did not have an isolation transformer and its ground was much (much) different than my scope ground.  Had 120v zip through the video board and it was never heard from again.  But at least I didn't fry the scope.  So I agree, just because it says Gnd, or you think it should be Gnd, doesn't mean it's not 120v away from "your ground".  A check with a volt meter (both ac and dc!) should help out.

Cheers,
-Greg

(and then there is the time pulling 120v from two separate outlets and how I learned about three phase power... but that's a different story)

haha!...
Is that when you saw the intensity of blue light? :72-

I wasn't tying to offend you in any way;  I think you took what I said as a bit harsh and it was not intended in that manner.  Of course the pin is yours and yes you are free to do with it whatever you want.  That said, good luck with your modifications.

A lot of old pinballs are neglected and found in barns or areas that cause them to corrode and rust up.  It really is sad.  I've picked up quite a few pinballs that were neglected and the owners just didn't know what to do with them.  As long as the glass is on, the playfield should be decently protected. 

For some reason, Sterns from that era have corrosion problems on all of the underside metal parts.  I am assuming that the steel they used was cheaper.  To help out a bit on this, I've used a berry's tumbler and left the metal parts that will fit in there for a day or two.  They come out very shiny.  I would suggest you do this with the metal plungers on all of the coils as they rust up decently in old Sterns, even in indoor settings.  Doing so speeds up the plunger as it reduces the friction and makes your game really pop and play much better.  It really makes a difference in the slingshots and flippers.

Clay's guide at marvins is a killer resource.  You definately started right by reading it.  Good luck with your game!

oh crappers,
I'm so sorry if I came off looking that way- I didn't mean to and was not offended.
I'm a lousy writer and don't convey my thoughts on paper as well as I wish. :8-
Please forgive me...I welcome all constructive criticism or thoughts on anything I do... :89-
I believe it's very good to see or hear other viewpoints on something! :89-
That is why this forum is such a great place to be part of...
no matter what anyone says or does, someone else has different ideas. :71-
And thank you so much for the part about the rusty solenoid plungers... :131-
I WILL take a look at it because I noticed yesterday that the left flipper was sticking! LOL
I got a brand new tempered glass ( $38.00 locally) in today and installed it...
my wife thinks it looks so good now - she said she can actually see the ball moving around now!  :72-

You are right on the money about that marvin's site...it IS very helpful!

Would you be thinking of the (Opto, Coupler, Darl, 6N139 ) components at positions U20/U28/U29?
I'm referring to the 10MHz MPU Processor Board 755-057-00 from the IGT Service & Parts Manual   Section 5 - Page 122.

ADD>>>
I think I've located them...
Components at locations K1-K8 ( RELAY, SSR, 120VAC 1A, SIP 4-pin )
Thank you very much for leading me in the right direction! :89-

K1 to K8, that is right. Various part numbers, PS1200, SP1201, PS1210. They're so old I can't find a data sheet on them but they were made by International Rectifier originally. The 6N139s are also opto triacs, 120V but very low current, and Q1 to Q16 are triacs not transistors. They have a T on them for the manufacturer, Teccor.

Well,
I tried the 4-pin SSR from an old S+ MPU board.
I was able to get it to turn on and "close" the 12VAC line but
it wouldn't shut off ("open") unless I un-soldered the 6VDC input for the "coil".
I tried to solder a capacitor in different positions in an effort to drain off the excess power -
to "unstick" the "coil" but no luck - unless, I tried this>>>

When I touch the capacitor about 3 times to the other side of the of the relay
(Which controls the opening and closing of the positive 12VAC line) - the relay "opens" and turns off finally.
But I have to do this manually in order to turn it off...

I know I'm real close to solving this but I'm missing one step somewhere?

Thinking about this, there's probably a resistor supplying a small current constantly to keep the lamp filament warm. This makes the lamps last much longer, as it's the large current when they switch on cold that usually burns them out. That's consistent with why, when you touch the capacitor, the relay drops out - for a moment the cap looks like a short circuit and takes all the current.

It may be difficult to get round this. A solid state relay only needs a small current. A "real" relay with a spacer to stop the armature actually touching the coil may work.

Okay,
I took the cover off of this particular 6VDC coil relay and exposed it's inner workings.
(by the way, it only needs about 4.3 VDC to pull the armature against the coil)
I then put a strip of paper between the armature and the coil head.
When I gave the coil about 4.3VDC for about 2 seconds, I turned off the 4.3VDC.
The coil still remained energized and pressed the armature tightly against the paper.
I had to release the energized coil's power by touching the coil's contacts with a 250V 1.0K capacitor.
The coil then released the armature.

I tried it again, but this time with 2 pieces of paper sandwiched between the armature and the coil head.
I powered up the coil again with the 4.3VDC for about 2 seconds then turned off the 4.3VDC.
The coil again remained energized and was now pressed tightly against 2 pieces of paper.
Again, I touched the coil contacts with the capacitor and the coil released.

It seems that whenever I turn off the 4.3VDC power to the coil,
the coil remains energized even though the armature is NOT physically touching the coil's head.

Another scenario I tried later on...>>>
If I solder the capacitor to the coils contacts, the 4.3VDC doesn't energize the coil at all.
Instead, the 4.3VDC probably runs into the capacitor somehow and
charges it up- instead of going to the coil.

Yet another scenario I tried>>>
Also, if I reverse the polarity with the 4.3VDC power to the coil contacts,
the coil still energizes but doesn't "pull" the armature-
I suspect it magnetic properties of the coil is now trying to "Push"away the armature,
instead of "pulling"...

I will try another type of relay...
this time a small package SSR relay - like the ones on S+ boards

Still playing with the 6VDC relay...
I learned something new...
After powering up the coil again with 4.3VDC for a couple of seconds,
I removed the power to find that the coil was still energized like before.
But, this time I shorted the coil contacts with a short piece of wire instead of a capacitor...
With the plain wire touching the coil contacts, the coil immediately releases...Hmm...
Now, the plain wire is taking all the current?

I also tried to measure the voltage on the coil when it's "stuck"...
I get a 4.3VDC - 4.8 or 4.9VDC when the coil is energized.
As soon as I touch the coil contacts with a piece of wire,
the multimeter goes from 4.xVDC to zero and the coil releases the armature.

It's almost like I need a relay to shut off a relay...LOL
but that would be an endless cycle....LOL

Hmm..  If I had to guess, the relay is some form of locking version and staying energized (getting power) from the switch side (armature).  When you short with a wire, the current locking the relay goes through the wire instead, de-energizing the relay and opening the circuit.  If it didn't the wire would blow like a fuse (hopefully not in your hand).  I would also guess there is a built in protection diode which is the reason you can't run the current in the other direction.  All the current just goes through the diode instead of the relay, and the relay never turns on.

Well,
After days of fooling around with this idea of hooking up
an emergency ambulance light to the "Shoot Again" light...
I am pleased to announce that it was a success!!!

Credit and kudos goes to all those that tried to help me!!! :3-
I especially give a warm thank you to Op-Bell (who got my brain out of the gutter :72-)
and gave me a telephone call (From where on earth I don't know...LOL)
at home while I was tinkering with this baby!!

I soldered (in series) to the positive wire of the "Shoot Again" bulb -
A 5VDC regulator to the 6VDC+ relay coil.
I also did a lot of reading on diodes and how they can protect
board components from "power spikes" due to the coil trying to retain the current.
I soldered in a 1N4002 diode with the striped side of the diode
onto the negative side of the coil...while the other side of the diode attched to the positive side of the coil.
When the coil is energized with the "Shoot Again" light, the ambulance light comes on!
When the ball goes in the gutter - the strobe light shuts off!
EXACTLY what I was trying to do with this application!!!!
Somehow, the diode, combined with the regulated 5VDC regulator -
disperses the current in the coil and reopens the circuit-
effectively shutting off the power to the ambulance light!

Now, with this in mind...what the heck did I do?  :129- :128- :72-

Now, if I can do this - I have another project in mind which will knock your socks off...
As I was playing the game trying to knock down the targets to get the ambulance light going,
I came up with an idea...
How about when you get a "Free Game" -
and in keeping with the "theme" of the game (Stern "Stars") the stars in the backlit board.... "twinkle"? :79-

Mark,

 :211- :211- :211- OK VIDEO is more appropriate, but we gotta work with the smileys that we have!!!

Mark :95- (Just in case you did not know that I too am a Mark!  :205- CH :95- ) Stat will reward me for using his new smileys! :79-

:212-

You want video? I'll make one! :88-   In :209- the web, I found only one GIF that requested pictures and it was far too large for our purposes. I made :211- on a site that lets the user type in their desired text. I also made one that reads "We Need Pictures!", but decided to go with this one instead.

Now Mark will reciprocate and reward me as well for using his new smileys! :79-  :208- 
It's the senior staff :95- :31- mutual admiration society. :200- :127- :30-

You guys are bonafide nuts.... :131- :96- :72-
We need a smiley of someone in a nuthouse wrapped in a straight jacket...

The cool thing that's exciting about this pinball application is
that it's basically endless as to what can be added to the enjoyment of playing the machine. :79-
Successfully hooking up a relay to certain aspects of the game allows for other "rewards" to try to achieve.
So, while playing it, you get goosebumps knowing what's going to happen if
you keep the ball on the table long enough and keep striking certain targets to get your reward. :91-
I actually got excited when I was close to setting off the ambulance light! :127-
When I finally got a "free ball" and the ambulance light went on, I was jumping around and
then proceeded to lose the ball in the gutter! :97-
Oh well, I least I had a "Free Ball" !... :96-

Glad you got it fixed!  Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

That's okay! It was a learning experience for me...
I've been really digging electronic circuitry these days...
All input from you guys is wonderful and all helpful really! :131- :131-
I'm afraid my wife would want me to dig her more though....LOL
She knows I'm a nerd cool dog that's always trying to learn new tricks! :96-

Stayed tuned for a short video clip!

That's what makes pinball fun to play, and what designers try to achieve when they create a game. The good pins have enough challenges and rewards to keep a player interested for a long time.

Thanks for keeping us up to speed on all of your experiments. It has helped many of us learn more about basic electronics. K+


Now, with regard to the loss of your ball, you've got to learn to control your outbursts!  :96- 

"Control, control. You MUST learn control... A Jedi can FEEL the force flowing through him...
"You must SEE the force between you and the pinball...
"And you must HEAR the force when the ball bounces off of a bumper...
"And you must SMELL the force when you screw up and fry something that you shouldn't have...  :98- 
"And you must TASTE the force when you taste the agony of defeat... 

USE THE FORCE, STOUT"  :50- :50-

Last night I must of played about 40 games or so and
finally got the ambulance to light up! ("Mark jumping around...")
It was such a blast!...I was nervous as heck when I had one last target to knock down...
I missed it like 3 times before I finally smacked it at full speed right in the middle!
 :136-
Beforehand, I made this short clip to try and show you guys how to get the ambulance light to go off.
You have to knock down the targets 3 times to get a "free ball" and light up the "Shoot Again" playfield light.
When you do that- the ambulance light comes on...
it feels great when you get something to work the way you want it to!
I let go of the record button on my camera. So, it's in 2 video parts...
I don't really know how to edit video clips yet...LOL
I'll try to make a better one tonight...>>>
http://www.youtube.com/v/dvLBoez24Fs&hl=en&fs=1 (http://www.youtube.com/v/dvLBoez24Fs&hl=en&fs=1)&

Stayouttabunker! Good Job!! Very interesting thread. I think it's great when somebody adds their own personal touch to a machine. Looks and works good! Thats the fun of tiinkering!!!
Am presently working on an old egg dispencing arcade machine which has a moveable chicken when you turn the coin mech and produces a clucking sound. The old sound box was bad so now am trying a limit sw activated when you turn the coin mech and then setting off a recording I make on an old telepnone answering machine.
Keep Tinkering!

Bunker,

COOL, and thanks for sharing the video!!!  :3- :3- :3-

It was worth the wait!  :88-

CH :95-

I want to make another video,
but this one, I hope, showed the point of what I was trying to accomplish....
I want to repaint the old , blue paint around the back-glass to make it look better...
It's going to take a while to get the exact match...
I'd also like to retouch up the playfield where it looks a little worn before it goes entirely and
wax the heck out of it to protect it.
even the front coin door door looks like a barn dog was pawing it.... :96-

Stout, again, thanks for posting your electronic restoration efforts. :3- :3-
It's been great to follow all of your work on the machine.  :79-

Sooo, now we know the secret of all of those high scores that you're going be posting in the coming months. It's EASY to get 26 credits and a score of 237,780 when you have no glass in place. :96- :200- :30- (sorry, couldn't resist)

Yeah he probably going to put hidden hinges on that glass top. :97- :97-

Ron

Nutty guys... :96-
I am toying with the idea of having the option of a multi-ball capabilities...  :96-
But for my next trick, :79- I would like to install miniature SMD LEDs
alongside the main #47 bulbs inside their respective light shadow boxes in the backglass to make the "stars"
appear to twinkle when you knock down all the targets and get a "Free Game".

I think it would be a very easy addition and visually exciting! :89- :91-
The trigger to set this off ?......It would be simple!>>>the KNOCKER solenoid!

The thing is, these SMD LEDs are extremely tiny and really are made to be installed on boards.
I've seen them on boards in certain toppers such as the Las Vegas topper.
This one needs a few lamps to complete it as I've already change the "flasher" chip behind the board.
These SMD LEDs lamps are only found cheaply from China...
They sort of look like this>>>

http://www.youtube.com/v/d0n84t3j4dI&hl=en&fs=1 (http://www.youtube.com/v/d0n84t3j4dI&hl=en&fs=1)

This is a small board I removed from a destroyed mini helicopter my niece had.
It was a "battery indicator" light.
Basically, it would change colors from red to green when the battery was charged in her helicopter.
It's brightest (according to my benchtop DC power supply) is peaked at about 2-1/2 VDC.
It would dim at anything over 3 volts DC.
I don't know how it changes colors because it would not light up if the leads are reversed from the power supply.
I understand that LEDs are polarity sensitive...
If you click on the photo and enlarge it with a "microscope",
you will see how small this light really is on the board
The entire bulb itself is actually smaller than the 22 guage wires going to the board!>>>

There is a clue in the "small print" on the board. It is laid out for different kinds of LED, that's why it says "LED" three times, except that two of those times it says "LED1" and the other just says "LED". From my inspection of the traces it appears that LED1 + goes to LED -, and LED1 - goes to LED +. That's how you would get a color change - have a red LED backwards in parallel with a green one, so that with one polarity the red lights up and when reversed, the green lights up.

Cranking up my magic microscope, I can see there are actually two LED chips inside that grain of sugar -  :103-  - I know, just take my word for it. One is red and the other will be green, connected back to back in parallel. You probably blew out the green LED by connecting it to the power supply without a series resistor to limit the current. When you connect up LEDs, assume that the LED wants 2V, take this off the supply voltage and put in a resistor to limit the current to 10 milliamps or less. That's 100 ohms per volt. So in this example, LED on 6VDC, LED wants 2V, 6V-2V=4V, 100 ohms per volt, series resistor wants to be about 400 ohms. Nearest standard values are 390 ohms and 430 ohms - use what you can get, it's not critical.

I noticed the Hong Kong guys on fleabay sometimes sell their LEDs  with certain resistors pre-soldered...
I ordered 50pcs  of white SMD LEDs size 1206 (They are popular in 605, 803...) These things are tiny as heck...
I bought the white ones in BOLD for $9.00,
These things are like 4 times the price in the States.
One thing for sure ,they're bright as heck and some toy hobbyists stick them in their trains as headlights.
You know those tiny little "passenger trains"? They use these lights as overhead cabin lights "inside" the tiny models>>>

ForwardVoltage(V) Dominant wavelength(mm) Luminous Flux(Lm) (MCD) Reverse current(uA) 50% Power Angle (deg)
　 If=20mA                    If=20mA                      If=20mA                            Vr=5V

　       Min    Typ             Min    Typ               Min    Typ                         Max
Red       2.1    2.3             615    625               150    180                          10                        125˚
Yellow   2.1    2.3             587    595               120    140                          10                        125˚
Brite     
Green   3        3.3             515    520               350    380                          10                        125˚
Blue     3        3.2             460    465               150    180                          10                        125˚
White   3.2    3.4    　       X=0.31
                                        Y=0.32               310    360                          10                       125˚
Pink       3.2    3.4             515    465               300    350                          10                        125˚

ADD>> I noticed they like to hawk sell 370ohm resistors
plus I did a dummy move and turned on the bench top power supply first before turning the voltage down...I noticed that it was set at 16.4VDC from something I was doing earlier...you maybe right...I could have blown it out before I had a chance to see what real voltage it would take.