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I'm looking to buy an older pinball machine to fix, restore and play. I've heard that the Williams machines are junk and to stay away from them, true or false? I found a 1976 two player EM Williams complete for $300 that's why I'm asking... Any advice would be helpful.

Thank Gary

I have repaired and restored many pinball machines from 70s models to 80s models, and to me no machine is worse than the other. As far as an electromechanical machine, they are all the same as far as getting them working again, mainly a lot of tedious work with making sure of the proper gap on the switches and cleaning the gunk and soot from them from the many years of the arcing when they are activated. Good news on the em machines is that once you get all of your switches in order, the machine rarely has any problems. The best thing you can do for an em machine is to try to play it as frequently as you can to keep it from sitting for long periods at a time. If you get into the solid state machines (with the digital scoring) the biggest problem you will encounter is battery acid damage on the main mpu boards, but they can be repaired if there is not too much corrision of the components (Tom Callahan at the Repair Connection) is one of the best at doing so. If they can't be repaired, then they do make a brand new replacement mpu for these games. To sum all of this up, in my opinion, Bally and Gottlieb em machines are the best looking and playing machines, the Bally solid state machines such as Eight Ball, Playboy, Paragon, Space Invaders, Eight Ball Deluxe, Flash Gordon, are some of the better titles, Williams sloid state games such as Black Knight, Gorgar, Flash, Firepower, all from the late 70s to early 80s era are really good games. Not a big fan of the Gottlieb System one games from that same era.

Gary,

I think there is only one company making new pinball machines, Stern.  Everyone else has hit the road. they all basically do the same thing, alot of basic circuits to accomplish the same end result. just certain manufactures changed it a little to be unique. most had certain parts fail on a repeat basis. e.g.  general illumination plugs seemed to turn brown and brittle and cause intermittent problems.

regardless of the manufacture of the machine. depending on the condition of the machine that's not a bad price. finding decent machines at decent prices is getting harder.

IMHO, regardless of the type /manf. of machine at some point they all will require service and TLC. usually every six months or so.

Jim  

No, thats not true. Your friend probably meant to stay away from all 70's digital pins, they just didn't have it figured out yet. The first electronic pin that we had that worked right was eight ball deluxe. I would not buy this pin Gary. I have seen at least one late 70's pin that had completely different circuit boards with modern electronics in it that looked good but I can't vouch for how well it worked.

Enjoy

BUY  THEM there nothing you can,t fix on a em pinball, early ss pins from late 70,s yes they are old but there 1 board mpu you can buy on line that will run most bally ,sterns and gott, right now there only 1 guy gary stern that making pins here in the us another guy in nj has started a new pin  co. but hasn,t made 1st pin yet, they now say mar 2012, stern makes each pinball cheaper and they cost more , we have 140 pins in our wharehouse  that we are holding to prices rebound  some , we bought them to va when we closed our auctions in nj , i still buy every fair price pinball i can , I feel its on a matter of time before no one will be making them.

The one I'm interested in is 100% EM Williams, no circuit boards. I just heard in general to stay away from the Williams ones

This one is from 1976 two player called Space Odyssey, made by Williams Corp... If it had a circuit board I didn't see it in the pics on line at the pinball date base.

that,s one of the better em  pins  no boards just points and coils 4 player is space mission

AS NOTED HERE, ALL MACHINES ARE REPAIRABLE. SOME MAY TAKE MORE TIME AND EFFORT THAN OTHERS. PINBALL RESOURCE IN POUGHKEEPSIE NY IS A GREAT SOURCE FOR PARTS. i OWN WILLIAMS, GOTTLIEB AND DATA EAST AND HAVE MANAGED TO KEEP THEM ALL RUNNING. GOOD LUCK. CHECK THE MARCO SITE FOR HOW TO MANUALS.

I only have one pinball machine. But the one thing I learned is to do some research on what is still available (as far as parts). Things like switches and solenoids and such are not too much of a problem, and you can usually find what you need. But some items like unique playfield parts may be nearly impossible to find.

Then I'd say buy it, certainly a fair price and as said earlier theres nothing you can't fix.

That must of been the one I seen. Who makes that? Is it any good?

Thats just sad, theres not much anything more American than pinball. Pinballs problem is there is no new players coming up as young people in general could care less. Theres too much else out there. Hopefully some new technology will come along that can be applied to pinball.

Your 100% correct that today's kids don't know what it is to play a pinball machine. To have to know how hard you could shack or hit a machine before it would tilt. Learning how to time your flippers to save the ball. Everything now is played on line or a video system. It's just not the same...

In addition to Stern, there's a new kid in town -- Jersey Jack Pinball.  I wish them great success and hope that pinball can once again thrive.

http://www.jerseyjackpinball.com/ (http://www.jerseyjackpinball.com/)

I have (2) old EM pins I restored about 15 years ago. I got them because I remember playing them on the boardwalk in Ocean City when I was a kid so small I had to stand on the milk box to play! 1st is a Gotleib Flying Chariots 1963 and a Williams ElToro 1963.

more

I have had a BUNCH of pinballs.  As prev. stated they ALL have diff. issues.  I prefer the newer ones--when I say new they are not new-- :208----90's up.  Anyway there is PLENTY of support for pinball problems and repair here and other so feel good about your investment--It's not a bad one--- :60-.  I have had and worked on Just about ALL the manufactures that were out there and out there now---no big deal (except on more than one time pulled hair out-- :96-).  B. -----------PINBALL----YEAH----

my 1st pin was a bally plam springs  bingo i bought and ran in my moms cellar on nickeles  I was 12 then , Those old 50,s bingos were a real thrill to repair

Well since starting this subject I have lost the Williams machine in question. It was sold out from under me, guess I moved too slow. I now have a 1971 Gottlieb Playball to go look at. I remember playing this game way back. I put a lot of quarters in this one. Seller says its complete, but doesn't play from sitting. The cabinet now has a wood grain look due to someones handy work. They are only asking $150. I can't get out to the machine till Sat morning, hope I don't miss this one too. Seller won't hold or take a deposit using Paypal.

if play feild and back glass are good its a great deal

Get it for sure, that is a good price for a Gottlieb. As far as the artwork, you can make a stencil of the original and repaint it back to original. In my opinion a Gottlieb is a better machine as fas as an electromechanical goes anyway.

one common problem with the Gott. was the bounce switch on the front door, it may look like  the contacts are physically making but checking with a meter will prove differently.  If memory serves me I think you have to remove a fuse to get a reading on this switch otherwise you will get a false reading back through the power supply transformer.

Jim

I've seen pics of the machine, that's why I want it. I tried to up load them here from my phone but no luck. All I can do is hope it's still available tomorrow.

If you decide to do a repaint of the cabinet, do it right.
A re-painted cabinet naturally brings down the value and a bad repaint is useless.

There are three steps in a proper repaint. The base coat the black spider webbing and the stenciled top coats.
Clay, one of our other members has detailed the proper procedures on his web pages.
Here is a link.

http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/index1.htm#repaint (http://www.pinrepair.com/restore/index1.htm#repaint)

Thanks Neonkiss for the link. K :259- for the help.

Gary

I know that ideally one should try to restore a pinbll back to it's original form. However, sometimes it may be best to just improvise. After I got my Space Invaders pin, with a really bad playfield and plastics (and no replcements available), I decided just to give it a makeover. I'm very happy with the way it turned out and I play it all of the time. I'm not interested in 'resale' as I'll probably never sell it.

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=10131.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=10131.0)