New Life Games Tech Forums

This is a re-post from Oldreno.  ;)

Troubleshooting the Bally EM

Here are a few tips I can pass on to you when restoring those wonderful Ballys.
I don’t know that this is the proper forum for stuff like this, or there is any interest.
If there is, I will be glad to post further stuff. Hopefully other old-timer Bally mechanics will input their thoughts also….

The clock.
Often the bull-gear (largest gear) will wear thin and stop the clock.  The reels either won't index, or the switches won't close fully to allow pays.  When the handle is pulled, the bull gear rotates 1/4 turn to fulfill its function.  When that part gets too worn, simply drive out the drift pin and rotate the gear a quarter turn.  The holes for the drift pin should line up, drive it back in and you now have another 100,000 miles of play.
You can also somewhat change the spin speed (not much) by bending closed or open the fan blades.  No real reason to do that tho'. Another way of quieting down the clock is to put a polite layer of grease on the metal gears in the clock. This not only makes it more quiet, but slows it down just a bit. Also some heavy grease on the outside & inside pivot holes helps.

The reels.
Occasionally  the reel screws will come out and you have a one in 4 chance of putting them back on the disc correctly.  A quick way to find out the right way is to index the reel wiper arms into the deepest cut on the reel disc.  This deepest cut is generally the high pay.  Now line up the reel so the 7 or highest pay is on center line, and you should see the 4 screw holes line up correctly.  Put a bit of silicon on the screw thread & they shouldn't come out until you decide to take them out.

The reel wipers will sometimes come loose.  To position them correctly, push back the reel wiper arm roller all the way, and then line up the wiper buttons with the back set of contacts.  That works out to be pretty close to right on in most cases. After adjusting check a mid-pay and a low-pay for proper index.  Fine adjust accordingly.

Switches and switch stacks.
The A, B, C, Coin Relay, and dashpot switches were designed to be somewhat self-cleaning.  The convex and concave portions wipe as they contact and that keeps them clean.  It is important to not remove that convex/concave area by filing the switches.  Don't to it.  Use either a burnisher, a fine thin flexible piece of flat metal, or a business card after spraying with contact cleaner.  Gently pinch the switches together & rub the card back & forth between them. When adjusting switches for good contact, look and see that they 'push' on each other, and also that when open they are full open.  Adjust switches by bending them at the stack, not at the end of the switch. Check your fiber insulating pieces that keep the switch sections apart.  For example, the C switches contain several switches operating different circuits. Don't let the wrong circuits contact each other. You might want to gently tighten the micarta-insulator stack, they sometimes get a little loose, especially in dry climates like Nevada.

Hopper rebuilding.
Since parts are unavailable, you’ll have to fabricate your own.
The zero stop bumper for the hopper reset is one part.  It is a thick disc of rubber, and when the hopper spiral is reset it stops against the bumper.  You may have to find a good piece of rubber about the same thickness as the old bumper, and cut out a circle about the same diameter.  Now punch a hole in it.  Don’t punch it in the middle, make it offset.  The bumper was originally designed offset so you could precisely adjust the hopper wipers.  If they reset too far forward, they’ll short pay by one coin.  If they are too far back, they’ll overpay by one coin.  The eccentric design of the bumper allows you to adjust for this.  Also, be aware that there are two bolts holding the hopper board to the backplate.  You can loosen and adjust the hopper board also to prevent mispays.
The torsion spring being wound too loose on the back 100 tooth nylon gear will give double steps and needs another ¼ turn or so to stop those short pays.  Proper winding on the torsion spring is about 2 and one half turns max.  Any more than that and it may bind on high pays and run-away. Make sure you step it all the way up to the max pay after adjusting the spring to check for binding.

Hopper short pays-on high pays.
When a hopper board pay circuit powers up via 50V through the reel boards, there is also another pay segment which is powered.  That is the CO or Carry Over segment.  It is typically found at about 75 steps on the hopper board.  When a high pay (100 or 200 coins) is hit, the payout relay stays energized through the outboard wiper fingers on the hopper carriage.  These fingers are just about impossible to adjust to exactly 100 coins, so their function is to provide power until the inboard spiral wipers get stepped up onto the Carry Over.  As you notice the carry over stops at exactly 100 steps.  If your machine stops paying before the 100 coins is finished, then probably your outboard wipers are going off their segments before the inboards hit the CO.  Simply loosen the 2 screws and move the outboard wipers until they stay on circuit until after the inboards hit the CO.  I generally adjust so they go off about in the middle of the CO circuit.  The CO will accurately give you the correct pay.
Also, on some models there is a CO for 40 and 50 coin pays.  Same thing applies.

Thanks,
Oldreno
 
 
 

The two types of 'zero stops' for the bally hoppers are the pencil-erasor type you mentioned, which is adjustable by a nut and allen head screw. This kind allows you to move the stop up or down to adjust the zero position accurately. It is an improvement over the original.  The original looked kind of like a rubber nickel, with a hole drilled offset.  this offset allowed you to adjust the bumper eccentrically, either to a thin spot or a thicker spot depending on how you wanted the wipers to reset.  When tightening the eccentric, you had to get it into position, and then firmly hold it in place with your thumbnail to get it to stay while you tightened the bolt.
After adjusting, if it is too far one way or the other, you will either have a 1 coin short pay, or an occasional 1 coin overpay, or unneccesary wear on your 100 tooth white nylon gear.
Really nice wonderful old machines.
Thanks,
oldReno

Troubleshooting Bally EM’s II

Here are a few more tips on those wonderful Ballys.
There seemed to be enough interest, so here goes…. 

No handle release
In order for the handle paddle to drop, the handle release coil must first be energized.
This happens on the upstroke of the coin in switch, after the coin has pushed down the switch, and fallen off.
If a coin is holding down the switch, then you will never have upstroke, and the handle won’t release.
A very quick way to notice this is to look for the ‘Coin Accepted’ light to be on.
When the first coin in pushes down the coin switch, the coin relay assembly is tripped.  This is on the lower left side of the reel mech in the back, & is a latching relay.  It is tripped electrically on downstroke, and reset mechanically during handle pull.
Among the switches on the coin relay are the circuit to the handle release coil (N.O.) and the coin accepted light (N.O.) and others.
So if coin accepted light is on, the coin relay is probably ok.  Then check your handle release coil and switches, and also check the dashpot switch.  A little tug on the pump arm will often close an open dashpot. & you may hear handle release coil engage.  There are a lot of other switches involved in upstroke & if I had a schematic I could tell you more…. I think the circuit involves going through the payout relay on hopper, and C switches on the reels, but again don’t have access to a schematic.
Once the handle release coil trips, then and only then can you get 2nd coin odds, 3rd coin etc.

Checking machine for shorts.
The two outputs of the secondaries of the transformer are 6V and 50V. These are isolated circuits, and as I recall do not ground to case.  The wires are solid blue (6V.) solid orange (50V), and solid yellow (the common wire)  Shorts can cause many problems.
To quickly check for shorts, pull out the coin acceptor, and quickly touch a small pocket screwdriver to case, and then short it to the orange wire on the lockout coil.  If you see sparks, or the machine dim, then you’ve got a short.  That checks the 50V.  To check 6V, touch your screwdriver to case and quickly touch the blue wire coming from one of you door incandescent bulbs. (insert coin lite is a good one.)  Again, sparks or the machine dimming are an indication of a short.  The door bulb sockets are notorious for moving and touching to case.  If you have the inclination you might want to put some heat shrink on them.
Next pull out, one at a time, your reel mech, top unit, and hopper, checking each time to see if the short disappears.  If it does, then you have isolated it to any one of those units.  Look for wire touching to case of any of those units, and correct the problem.
Be careful with shorts, I’ve seen one melt a good portion of a nickel stuck behind the coin acceptor arcing across the coin lockout relay.
Be aware that some operators would build an intentional short into the machine to stop cheating.
This is usually found as an orange wire soldered onto the coin lockout coil, and then with a fork-connector fastened to case with a screw.  Remove this before checking for shorts.

Thanks,
Oldreno

Troubleshooting EM's Part lll

The Bally ElectroMechanical is the forefather of modern gaming. Many disagree, but I still think so.
While one-armed bandits dominated the scene for decades, the Bally opened the door to the modern wonders (?) of todays gambling.
Built long before flip flops, shift registers, and 4-bit architecture, it was a very sophisticated combination of electrical mechanical interfaces.  In fact the 'money pin' paddle-less pinball machine was a prime example of EM technology gone wild.  One of the harnesses is about as thick as my forearm...and it's not user friendly.
The EM is not only almost infinitely repairable, but is amenible to many modifications
I remember making parts in the shop to repair EM's because my slot manager was too cheap to buy parts.
Also, it had a 'different' pay structure, hit frequency, and randomness than today's machines.
Frequent low pays, many lower jackpots, and an easily changeable reel structure were great advantages.
Imagine, a one in 8,000 chance of hitting a jackpot!


How to check voltages and fuses.
This is something that can be done without opening the door.
If the fluorescent lights are on, and either the 'Insert coin", 'Coin Accepted", or "Winner Paid" lights are on, then you have 120V, 6V, and those fuses are good.
The remaining voltage, 50V can be checked by slightly pulling the handle and listening for the coin lock-out coil (on the door, behind the coin acceptor), to click in and out as you nudge the handle.
If you are missing some of the above, check your 3 (4) fuses behind the hopper.
If they are all good, look in the left hand corner of the machine behind the hopper.
That's where the time-out switch lives and lurks.

Time-out switch and Safety Timer.
Behind the hopper, left side of cabinet, generally.
The front of it is identified by a red pilot neon light, and a white push button.
If that light is on, then your hopper has run-away, timed out, and turned off the machine.
Push the white button next to it, and you should see power come up.
The safety timer is generally set for 45-90 seconds for a single coin machine, or 5-10 seconds or so for a multiple coin machine.
Do NOT adjust this with the machine plugged it.
On the back of the safety timer, between two nutted posts (caution) is another button.  This button turns off the machine physically if you want to put it out of service, in addition to being the hopper runaway cutoff circuit.
In some models you may see a little push lever below the front of the hopper.  This was installed by Bally to allow you to turn on the machine without having to pull out the hopper to push the reset button.
Generally a mechanic would reach behind the pilot neon and turn off the machine by hitting the back button.
Let me suggest a word of caution.  Do not be holding on to the door or other metal parts while you push the 'off' button.  There is some pretty heavy voltage going across those two nutted fasteners on both sides of the off switch.
If you short yourself across them, you WILL pay attention. We soon learned just how wide our fingers were, and arched them so we wouldn't touch the darned things.
The safety timer relay and motor kills the 120V to the machine.
Unplug your machine, and practice this maneuver until you're comfortable with it.
The safety timer is a 120V motor, slow turning, which moves a little wheel and metal tab (arrow) to the kill switch during payoffs. It makes a full turn in about 120 seconds.
If the timer bar hits the off button before it is reset, off goes the power to the machine.
We don't want it to time-out during proper pays, so, in the case of a single coin machine, this timer bar is set for about 45-90 seconds. (Actually I forgot the settings....)
If the pay is not made by then, then there is a possibility of a runaway pay or a dry hopper causing that condition.
This is generally enough time for making the highest pay (200 coins)
The case for multiplier machines is another whole story.

Thanks,
oldreno

Troubleshooting EM's Part lV

Multiplier Hopper Payoffs
Bally had several ways of counting payoffs.  One was a mechanical linkage from the coin out roller, to physically step up the white 100 tooth hopper count gear.
Another way was to allow the coin out roller to pulse a set of switches which then powered briefly a 50V step up coil, to electrically step that gear.  A third way was to use a hybrid combination of both in the case of a 'double up' machine.
The mechanical linkage system was built for single coin machines, 3-line jobbies,  buy-a-pays, and 5-line criss-cross machines.  You know, the ones which were not multipliers.
They were all pretty much straight pays.
The multipliers, however, can pay in progressing increments of 2, 3, 4, 5 or more coins bet per game.
The solution here is to count the pays through the mulitiplier wheels (x2, x3, x4, etc.) found in the top unit.
The Odds step up relay in the top unit is involved here, but that's discussion for another time.
(to watch your top unit work if you have no jumpers, simply remove the 4 screws holding the odds lights to the top unit frame, and pull that wooden piece forward.  You can then watch the odds work and the X-units step during pays and work the relays to see how they operate.)
If one coin is played, no multipliers are used, and the step up coil is pulsed once for each coin out.
If 2 or more coins are played, then that specific multiplier is chosen to interface with the coin out step up coil.
In the case of the X2 circuit, for each coin paid out, the X2 coil steps once.  However, becaused of the nature of the X2 board, only every second step of the board assembly causes power to get down to the hopper step up coil.
So, in essence, 2 coins are paid out, and the step up coil steps the payboard only one time.
Same thing occurs for all other multiples of coins played.
The X3 board is (you guessed it) only wired to count the hopper every 3 coins out.
Etc.
Why?
Good question.
It's what they had then.
On the back of your hopper payboard, mounted on the 100 tooth white plastic paygear, you will see another circular plastic piece which has notches in it.  Also, there is a little tiny switch which rides on that outer ring.  Every 5 steps of the payboard, the switch falls into that notch.  This is an indication to the machine that the payboard is stepping up correctly.
IF the little switch falls into the notch during a pay, then this in turn indirectly temporarily cuts off power to the safety timer relay. This relay, timer motor, & cutoff bar you remember, are trying to hit the power down switch on the safety timer to turn off the machine. Also recall that it has a built in return spring.
If the hopper starts paying, and the payout count disk does not move, thus resetting the timer, then the machine will black out.
Not, after 45 seconds, as in the case of a single coin machine, but within 10 seconds or so, however you have it set.
This will stop runaways sooner, and allow less money to be lost in the event of a malfunction.
All this X-unit selecting is done by the odds disc which is reset when needed on the first coin in of the next game, and, I believe, makes its first step after the 2nd coin inserted.

oldreno

Thank You again to Oldreno for the above original post.
I felt this was invaluable information that needed to be re-posted here on the NEW web pages.

A question for the experts...   I bought a candle top for the Bally.  It's a ligit topper that I got from foxslots.  There are four wires.  While connected to a 9V battery, this is what I found out.:

Candle top is two lights
Black...common
Solid red...service switch (it makes the top flash)(doesn't work with the switch yet...probably the switch)
Blue...all lites come on , but at a low setting)
red with orange...all bright.

I have a bus bar on the inside top of the machine that I can mach these wires to.  I beleave everything works fine,  but my question is...

What is the sequence or state of lights.  If the machine is on,  should both the top and bottom be lit always (i notice that when I open the door,  the bottom light goes off)

when I win,  should the lights do anything?
when I win a jackpot...should the lights do anything? 
           (the top one flashes durring a payout of either)

The machine I have is a Bally 809 with 5 multiple coin

I'm pretty sure I have it connected correctly,  I was hoping someone could confirm this and if they have the same machine,  can a picture be posted?

Thanks.

Update...I have cleaned the service switch...it works.  However, I am haveing a tough time to figure out where the four wires go.  As stated,  I have a bus bar in the top of the machine.  I can hook everything up and the lights work,  but I know that something isn't right with the service light sequence.  If I match wire color to wire color,  the top lights blinks always.  I know the button works,  I took it out and tested it.

Can anyone help?  I beleave it may be something simple,  but I have tried every possible wire/color combination in the machine.

Thanks,
Youngjedi

This is what I did...  I figured that there must be a short somewhere in the wire that leads from the button to the bus bar at the top of the machine.  I traced it as much as I could (a section is hidden behind the Coin in / coin out counter) but could not find any fault.  so,  in order for it to work properly,  I ran a fresh wire.  The Service switch works perfectly with the light,  All the other hook ups work great too.  The top light on the candle lights up during a Jackpot payout,  and the bottom light glows when the door is shut.  When you open the door...it turns off (To me,  that seems backwards,  because a slot boss would like to see that if the white light is on,  a tech is working on it, not the other way around)

I am very happy with it!

Although,  the first time my friends hit the button and ask me to fetch them a drink...I will tell them where they can put that drink...if you know what I mean.


I have another tech question,  it's about the relay on the back of the hopper.   Durring a payout when the hopper is running,  the relay (little brass contacts on a spring stack) make a big spark for each coin...is this normal?   Any help would be great!

Thanks

If you mean the relay at the back with a coil and a stack of contacts, no, that should not be sparking during a payout. It gets its power feed through the wipers on the payout counter disk and should stay nicely closed until the wiper runs off the end of the winning track. It may "chatter" (drop out momentarily) making a big spark on the motor contacts if the tracks are dirty or the wipers aren't making good contact. This is a Very Bad Thing that will quickly destroy the contacts. There should be a big 470 ohm resistor soldered across the coil, that is to "slug" the relay and hold it in during very brief circuit breaks to stop it chattering. Replace that if it's missing. But probably you need to check the tracks on the payout counter and make sure the wipers have good spring pressure onto the PCB. A little switch cleaner/lubricant on the PCB does no harm if you don't mind cleaning off the dust it attracts from time to time.

On the other hand, if you mean the contacts on the back of the hopper body that are pushed by the coin-out lever when a coin goes past the roller, it's perfectly normal for them to spark vigorously on every coin out, as they're driving a big inductive load.

(http://www.meadpublishinglasvegas.com/opgbally1.JPG)

This is a useful book for Bally owners, available from most Vegas book stores, Amazon, or direct from Mead Publishing Company (http://www.meadpublishinglasvegas.com/slot_machine_repair.htm). It covers the 709 in some detail.

Thanks Op-Bell,

 I Believe it is the contacts on the coin out lever.  I will take a closer look at it later.  I do have that resisiter soldered in.

Youngjedi

These helped me. I hope they will help you.

Thanks 2Moons.

*filed* K+

I have uploaded a zip file (Bally EM Manual) to the files section. If you have a Bally 3 reel machine Model 742a thru 962 this book is great. It's a large file but it's worth the download time. This book has helped me keep my Bally humming right along for the last 20 years. Have a nice day & Enjoy the PDF.

I mistakenly posted questions about my odd Bally Three-Liner Classics under the tech forum on "General NLG Chat" , if any of you have time to take a look and offer a suggestion or two.

Check your Gmail or follow this link
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bally-Slot-Machine-Stepper-Zero-Switch-Stop-Bumper_W0QQitemZ310095797860QQihZ021QQcategoryZ13731QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Bally-Slot-Machine-Stepper-Zero-Switch-Stop-Bumper_W0QQitemZ310095797860QQihZ021QQcategoryZ13731QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262)
2Moons

Dig out the old rubber and install the eraser off of a NEW pencil. You can add a dab of epoxy inside if you like to help keep it in place.
An easy $0.25 fix with items used around the house.
I have used this in the past and never had a failure of the eraser.

I did exactly that, and the machine pays correctly. The reels spinning endlessly is a stumper, though.

That Bally Classic was a very unique machine. I believe it was only manufactured for the MGM Casino's
I have some Games of Nevada machines and reels are about the same. Their is an electric motor with a gear toothed belt that drives the reel shaft.
My machines has three solenoids that locks the reels in sequence. The reels have a type of slip clutch so the shaft keeps turning until the last reel has locked. Once the last reel has locked power is disconnected from the reel motor.
Is your problem that the solenoids never engage the reels so they keep spinning?
I'm not sure but Barry from Gallery of Slots may have some good knowledge for your machine.

I'll re-post your picture here.

The Classic was designed by Nick Gutnech and Mickey Wichinsky, so the resemblance to Games of Nevada machines is no coincidence. Bally paid them a lot of money for it and didn't intend to have only the one customer! I think the reason it failed as an earner was partly the unconventional shape, in a time when there was nothing else except Bally uprights, but mostly because the motor driven reels were too different from the free-spinning reels and players didn't like the action. I don't care for it much myself.

The main controller is a microswitch cam timer about 8 inches long, with the usual stepping switches for counting the coins in, and a few plug-in relays. One of the difficulties in designing with cam timers is that you only get one contact per cam, so if you need more you either have to add a relay, or use more than one cam for the same job. My wild and crazy guess is that the start switch passes through different cam timer switches depending on whether it's at max coins or less than max, and one of the microswitches is cracked. That happens a lot. It will be difficult to get in there to examine it without disconnecting all the wires, but you may be able to get at the microswitch terminals and waggle them to see if any seem to be loose. You'll be looking for switches that change over in the first few degrees rotation of the cam shaft, at the same time the solenoids release, and don't change back until the timer makes a complete cycle.

That explains the tall timer thing in the corner!
(top photo, upper left)

It is made by England's Starpoint, and has 0-359 on its top scale. Also, it has 12 contacts down its side.
Wonder what the proper setting is...

Your info answered the "What is it" question.
Now, any idea what this timer/stepswitch does? It starts to spin as soon as a coin is dropped.
(bottom photo, over mystery switch, mystery pushbutton and Molex connector)

Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving to all!

OUCH, I just noticed that you have a 70 pin beau connector to install that lower unit.
Those are a nightmare. Be sure to check all the connector pins. The two large female alignment pins have a tendency to push inward and come loose from the holders. Check those pins good and take good care of that connector because chances are you will not find a replacement. If by chance that you do be prepaired to spend some serious  :56- :56-

That's the randomizer. It's a simple motor and switch that makes and breaks the power to the main cam timer so that it turns intermittently and makes the reels turn for varying lengths of time.

That makes sense... I'll make certain it and the Starpoint are working together properly. Or at least, as much as I can determine.

Here we are, two and a half months later, most of which time I ignored my silly "Bally but not Bally" machine.

Today I fixed it, but I'm not exactly certain what I did! One clue I had to go on was, if I inserted 3 quarters (the maximum), the reels would stop spinning and payoffs were normal. Not so with one or two; reels kept spinning. The Starpoint timer and randomizer were working well and in tandem. More on that later. I pulled out the bottom chassis where the three-line feature unit was, figuring that may be where the problem is. It did appear that a couple of the spider-legged contacts were bent, so I straightened them. After reassembling the machine (if I only had a dime for the times...), it started spinning the moment I plugged it in. I unplugged it, pulled the reel assembly out and gave the Starpoint timer a random turn. After reassembling it again, it worked! I have no way of knowing which fix actually fixed it, but the dang thing works and that's all I want it to do. Although I will have to take it apart to transport it because I'm not Hercules, I ain't touchin' anything!!

Thanks to all of you, and to FOXSLOTS for the offer of an electrical diagram.  :131-  Based on this machine's almost total difference in construction from a real (reel) Bally Classic, it's possible that the wiring diagram wouldn't have helped anyway.

Back to simpler things, like radio and TV transmitters and other electronics...

SPOKE TOO SOON. It quit again
If I force it to stop by tripping the coin insert switch again, the reels stop as they are supposed to and the Starpoint timer resets to zero. Same thing with three coins, all by itself. One or two coins... no luck.
Anyone have ANY idea??

This thing is still kicking my butt...

Without having a wiring diagram, or better still having the sucker here on my workbench, there's very little help I can give you beyond repeating what I said before. It is most likely a faulty microswitch, either on the Starpoint cam timer or the randomizer. The Starpoint drives off home to start the game, then one of its switches changes over and passes control to the randomizer. The randomizer switch makes and breaks to drive the Starpoint intermittently through the cycle, then after the reels stop the first Starpoint switch changes over again to complete the cycle. Somewhere in that sequence is the problem.

THANK YOU for at least explaining the sequence of events! That all makes perfect sense. I checked the switches on the Starpoint, even writing down where on the 0-360 dial they closed. It seems ok, so I'll thoroughly examine the randomizer.
One odd thing is the machine works normally with three quarters but not with one or two.

That's another troubleshooting clue, though I don't know what it means.

Since the known item affected is the motor on the Starpoint (it stops turning), that's the place to start. Trace its wiring. One side should be simple, it will go to one side of the supply. This would traditionally be an orange wire on EM Ballys. The other side will have a complicated and branching path through microswitches and relay contacts to the other side of the supply, traditionally a yellow wire. There's going to be one route from the motor, through a relay (coin in), through the start switch, to get it off home. There's another through a cam switch that changes over immediately off home, that runs it through getting the reels started. There's another route through a cam switch that changes after the reels stop, through the win relay, that gets it back home at game over. Then there are paths that run through the randomizer. One of those is the problem.

 From your remark above, I would expect to find one route through the max coin circuit, possibly a relay or a contact on the step-up unit, and another route not through the max coin circuit.

Well, here we are in late May. And the slot machine works fine. The problem was in the coin step-up unit... Actually it was two problems. One was the 'spider' disc had a couple of contacts that looked like they were making contact, but weren't. And, on the back side where the leaf switches are, there was an almost invisible strand of wire shorting out a couple of the contacts! Not at the leaf ends but where they were assembled!
The very helpful Barry Fox was insistent that the step-up unit was a likely culprit, and although I had checked it before, I did so again. And that was it.
Finally.

 :105-   :3- :3- :3- :3- :3- :3- :3-
It's always nice to here when you get your machine up and running again.

Yes, Barry is very knowledgeable on the E and EM machines.
He is always willing to help out members with problems and is usually right on the money with his diagnoses.

I did a little research on these Classics. Turns out there were around 100 made and the MGM fire claimed over 60 of those. The rest were out for repair and out of that bunch, supposedly less than 20 survive. This comes from a usually reliable source.
I must say, the one I fixed is working better than it ever has.
(Goes back to fixing broadcast Beta decks, audio gear and jukeboxes...)

then I must be a lucky guy - I have had 10 of them and I know another dealer who had just as many - should have kept them and cornered the market.

Like I said... A Usually Reliable source. Believe it was whomever sold my friend his Classic.
To me, a run of 100 seems low. But having 20+ still around seems reasonable.

Hope you kept that cool car, Barry!

still have the 442 - no plans on giving it up in my life time.

this may be a silly one to some people but how can i fine out which model of bally one arm bandit i have got i know it says 1968 on the hopper motor but there is no number plate on it, the name on the front is lucky twins but that about all i can fine on it  :103-  :99-
thanks
shaun

Since no one more knowledgable than me (which isnt saying much) has responded, look around inside the machine. I've seen them engrave, stamp, or more commonly written in felt marker, the model # in such places as: inside the cabinet (front and center), somewhere on the inside of door, outside of hopper bowl, and almost always written on the reel mech.  You've got something funky going with that top box (just saying its different, not saying its bad). I can't really read it with the glare, but does that say "Change"??? Is the top box a change machine? If you get a chance, snap a pic of the inside. Where's Barry Fox when you need him?

You might want to drop this thread and post in Reel Machines - General Chat with a "Help ID this machine" topic...This thread is 2 years old and at this point, you're not really troubleshooting, like the thread title implies.  :88-

-Roslyn

thanks roslyn and yes it is a change machine on top i have 2 of them like it the other one is fully working the 1 in the photo needs a lot of work doing to it

It's from Britain and the change top is not original, so there's a very small chance it bears any resemblance to the machine that left the Bally factory. Since it used to be a hold and draw machine, the chances are it started life as a Sir Prize. You should find model numbers stamped on the switches at the back of the reels, it's very unlikely the mod crew had the patience to change those.

Hi and thanks in advance! I have a 809-b. I can pull the handle down with no power and the reels will turn, I can power the unit up and insert nickles and nothing but the reels will still spin wheel i pull down the arm.
I took out the coin hopper and put 110v on the motor and it will spit nickels out no problem.
Any help is always appreciated, Yes I checked the fuses there not blown.
And the transformer shows Orange -common   Yellow 50v Blue & Red 50v (front pins)
rear pins  White 25v jumped to next pin on right , Black 25v jumped next red 25V and empty pin right rear.
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