New Life Games Tech Forums

It won't accept coins, candle stays lit on top and flashes fast on bottom.  Display shows 1 in coins played and 1 in winner paid

Looking at the S+ manual, that candle combo of top light on and bottom light flashing fast, indicates that the change door is open. I'm  sure someone on here will reply with more help on your issue but hopefully this will help with a starting point of what's wrong.

Did you push the "Spin" button yet?

it hasn't lit up and nothing happens when it's not...

Does the "Coins Played" window number change at all when you open/close the door?
Watch it carefully when you close the door.
It should monetarily go out then come back on.
Please report back ASAP.
I'm here for about an hour.
I want to get your machine running the way YOU want it to............ NOW!
We don't need no stinkin' manuals!  :72-

One other thing... When turning on the machine the reels stop from right to left.  Is this normal?

Yes

When I open the door coins played goes to 0 and there's nothing in any other display.  When shutting the door everything is blank for about 10 seconds then I get the 1 in coins played and 1 in winner paid

 :97- Stayouttadabunker IS the human manual!!  :131-

 :72-


Good.
Your door optics work.

Sounds like I got the "best" working on it....... I really appreciate that...

Don't blow up my head - it won't fit through the doorway... :72-


Open the door again,
check to see if your CC has a quarter in it?
The coin in the coin comparator must match what you're trying to drop through.
This is a quarter machine right?
Has it EVER worked before in YOUR presence?

If not ---please tell us in details...we don't want to be guessing what you have or are seeing for 80 posts....lol
It would be fun to see your machine running in less than 25 posts!



Remember, the more you can tell us- the more we can help you!

Yes it's a quarter machine and the CC has a quarter in it.  It's an S+ Wild Cherry that I got last weekend.  It did show code 21 when I bought it but I put in new (used but good) coin in optics and it took care of that problem

OKay good!

But you still have some checking to do....here we go!

Open the door and press the little friggin' tiny little button on the coin-in optics board that's located under the coin comparator.
When pressing it, does it register credits onto the reel glass display?
It's the "Service Coin" button.

This test will tell you if the coin-in optics  boards are really any good.
Check your coin-in optics connector wires too.
Make sure the ground wire is broken...usually the black wire.

Are your coins falling through the slot and back into the coin tray or into the hopper inside the machine?
Make sure the "rake" on the back of the coin comparator works freely and is NOT binding or sticking against the opening where it occupies...
The coin mech comes off easily as it's held by 4 plastic "clothespins" - just pull the mech straight towards you and the clothespins will release the mech. Watch your fingers!
The two gray wires coming off the top of the coin comparator provide the power for the "Rake"
Also, turn back your "Coin Sensitivity" dial all the way counter-clockwise then turn it forward 1/4 of a turn.
This sets the coin acceptance sensitivity of you coin comparator.

It registers coin played but nothing in credit window

"check to see if the ground wire is broken" ?

Coins are falling back into the coin tray.  Rake appears to be moving freely.

Adjusted sensitivity no change.  Tried a different CC still no change.

Press the spin button with the door open to spin the reels.



Yeah...black wire...I think it's okay though or you'd have a "21" error.


Rakes good...coin-in optics might be bad.
Let's zero in for the kill now!

Open the door, press the Service Coin button on the coin-in optics board.
Each time you press it, the machine should "ding!" as it registers a credit.
With the door still open, press the "Spin" button.
Or the "Max" be button....the reels should 'spin'


If not, your "but I put in new (used but good) coin in optics" are no good.

Take it apart and cut the Q2 diode off of the board.

Reels won't spin with door open.  Spin button not lit.... :103-

You have credits on the display when you press the little button on the coin-in optics?
I hope you are NOT pressing the button on the MPU computer box?

Don't worry about the "buttons not lighting up....have you ever checked
each of the lamps with a multimeter to see if they're NOT burned out?
The machine can work without any lights at all.
Lights are just for show...


make sure your buttons are fully inserted into the switches under the button deck though.
They won't work if the switches are NOT being depressed when the button is pushed.
You can see the little red or white nib that goes down into the micro-switch's body when you push down on a deck button - a plastic tang pushes the switch "nib" to activate whatever it's hooked up to.

We have 7 posts left....these ones have to be good!  :72-

machine dings and registers credits. Reels spin.  All wires to buttons seated firmly.  All buttons have lit at one time or another.

I did press test button earlier to test optics and hopper.  Both passed.  I did notice that the coil behind CC and optics has a crack in the blue plastic cover?  Not sure if this means anything?

Why did you tell me it did wouldn't spin earlier? You WERE pushing the wrong button huh?
nevermind...You lying to me?  :97-   (just kidding ya...)
Remember what I said, the more you can tell us - the better we can help you.


okay good!

Cut the Q2 diode off the front coin-in optic board.
It will take ANYTHING after you do this!
It's fine - you're NOT in a casino...so what right?

The Q2 diode is a small little square-looking chip with 3 legs...(an ugly little monster)
This chip is located in the middle, in between the 3 eye optics.
The eye optics are easy to spot...they look like little lights soldered to the circuit board.
You can very easily bust of this Q2 diode with the tip of a small screwdriver or tip of an Exacto knife.
If you have bad eyes, use a magnifying glass to see your knife tip get UNDER the chip
and exert upward force on it to bust it off the board.
Once you d this, and re-install the coin-in optics back together....your machine will accept coins.
This will take you the rest of the night because you've never done this before.
Talk to you tomorrow!


Some reading...>>>

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=10902.msg94825#msg94825 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=10902.msg94825#msg94825)

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=12258.msg106516#msg106516 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=12258.msg106516#msg106516)

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=10370.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=10370.0)

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=9547.msg82577#msg82577

This won't hurt the optics board?

The reels are spinning after it registers credits.  Do I still remove the teeny tiny chip?

Thanks for your help!!

I'll talk with you tomorrow..

Your reels are spinning after you use the "Service Coin" button but they won't spin when the door is closed and  after you drop some real coins.
The coin-in optics are the boards that send the signals to the MPU registering credits.
You can register credits manually with the Service Coin button but NOT with real coins.
Plus, coins are dropping back into the coin tray and the number changes when you open/close the door.
This means the coin comparator is allowing the coins to go through it okay and the door optcis are functioning properly but your coin-in optics boards are NOT registering real coins!

There's 2 screws to remove the whole coin mech bracket from the plate under the coin drop chute.
Remove all three connectors by their housings...not by pulling on the wires!
A small 2-pin Molex for the coin-divertor solenoid, a coin comparator white Molex, and the reddish 10-pin connector that's on the coin-in optic boards.
The coin-in optics boards are connected together by a 4 wire ribbon cable. make sure it's not broken at all.
There's a three screws to remove the boards and coin optics gateway from the bracket.
Open the circuit boards under your magnifying glass and remove the Q2 chip.
Older coin-in optic boards use a Q4 chip.
No matter what, the chip is right in the middle of the 3 optics on the board.
It does NOT hurt to remove it.
What is going on is:
There's a short INSIDE that chip which is blocking the optic signal as your coins pass through between them.
Therefore, not sending back a signal to the MPU that a coin passed through!


Reading the articles I posted above will give you a much better understanding how these coin-in optics function.
I had some pictures somewhere but I think they're on my other work computer.
Don't worry much aboput the different machine they're talking about - your S+ coin mechanisms are similar on other different kinds of machines too!

One other thing I forgot to mention is that the insert coin light has never come on but as you said before the lights are nothing to consider at this point

 Bunker  Coin optics   ????????????????     Coins are going to the tray.                   

Yes...but he's already adjusted the Coin Sensitivity potentiometer pot dial, checked the magnetic coil rake divertor,
the rake wires, the coin mech wires, and checked the comparator coin.
The only other things he can do is tie back the CC "rake" !
( or remove the rake altogether or even... heaven forbid - bend the rake completely backwards!!!!)

Another thing to try is get into the machine tests and do the ABC optic tests -
but that would probably take about 25 more posts to cover.

Other things a more experienced S+ homeowner can do is adjust and balance the coin comparator coils.
But I have NEVER, EVER heard of an S+ homeowner having the proper tools to perform or even try this?  :72-
I've done it many times but it's usually not THE problem anyways.
Usually, it's a bad IC component on the interior circuit board of a 20+ year old coin comp.
For example, an old overworked, overheated, burned out-of-spec diode, capacitor, or resistor.

Normally, if one has extra parts, they could swap the coin comparator altogether with
either a known working CC, or a new CC circuit board.

It doesn't hurt for a slot homeowner to cut the Q2 chip off on the coin-in optic boards anyways - it can ONLY help.  :89-
The machine does NOT need that kind of security as it will never be on a "live" casino floor again.
Also, it never hurts the resale value of the machine either because any future, prospective S+ buyer
will have absolutely NO IDEA what in the world a "Q2" IC component is and what it's functions are to a slot machine.
He just wants to get it working accepting coins!

So here's what I did last night.
First I tied back the rake to see what effect that would have: It (of course) allowed coins to go to the hopper but maybe 1 out of 10 would register as accepted. 
I then proceeded to remove the Q4 chip on the optics board.  No problem removing the chip as it popped right off. I didn't bump or scratch anything else on the board.
Now I'm back to having the 21 error code that I had originally. Checked connections, wiggled wires etc but still have the 21 code.
Strangely I did self test for the coin in optics and values would change from 10-1,11-1,12-1 to 10-0,11-0,12-0 when sliding paper into the optics path so it seems as though the optics are working although the button on the optics board no longer does anything.
Not sure what to do next.  Should I order another coin in optics board? :103-

stayouttadabunker - I appreciate your time and all the help you've given so far.  I felt like I almost had it last night and now I've got that dreadful 21 code again...... :279-
Thanks again!

The problem is not the optics...I am battling the EXACT problem right now.  See my posts titled "Testing 10 MHz boards - Code 21" it's just a few topics down front his one in the S+ forum.


@Bunker - with cutting the Q2 (Q4) off of the optics, isn't there greater risk for hopper jams? Small coins in a large coin hopper? Sure, its not the ideal scenario, but we get hopper jams now from home users that don't sort their change jars and dump them in the hopper to payout a win...just a thought.

Let's hope someone has a "magic fix"...

Ok, I got it to work.... :3-......at least for now.  Here's what I did.
Turned the reset key with door open and the 21 code went bye bye.  When putting coins in they came back out to the tray so I wedged open the rake on the CC and Viola! It's taking quarters, spinning, paying off etc..
I put in more than the max #(5) of coins to see what would happen and it went back to the 21 code so I repeated what I did before to remove the 21 code and it's working again although not exactly as it should.
At some point sooner than later I would like to get the machine working as it should... just not sure what to do next................

I tried putting more than max five coins in again and it did not go to the 21 code although the extra coin obviously went into the hopper.  Must have been a fluke before.
I'd still like to get the CC working properly at some point to avoid someone putting the wrong coin in.  The coil/magnet (?) on the CC are not being activated for some reason.  :103-

A "21" error code is cleared by simply by opening and then closing the door - turning the reset key does nothing for that.

The rake works by the solenoid getting juiced up and it becomes a magnet pulling back on the rake to allow the coins to slip by into and through the coin comparator.
After that, the coin-in optic boards register the coins passing thru the optics
and send 1 credit to the MPU.
By shoving something under the knife - you're basically making pretend the rake is energized and pulled back.

Vice versa,  if the rake magnet does not energized - the rake won't pull in
and the coins get diverted by the rake back into the coin tray under the door.


Soooo...you need either a new coin comparator or the circuit board that goes inside the plastic casing.
Suzo-Happs.com sells the circuit boards but they're fairly expensive...>>>

http://na.suzohapp.com/gaming/coin_comp/35003400.htm (http://na.suzohapp.com/gaming/coin_comp/35003400.htm)

Yours is the 24volt ...>>>  35-0034-00  9270126    CC-16D 24VAC              $46.35   

I'd place an WTB ad in the "Classifieds" section of NLG for an S+, 24volt coin comparator
and hopefully a vendor will spot your wanted-to-buy- ad and get in touch with ya!

Finally, if you want your game to take more the "Max" bet allowed and have the extra coins go to the credit display -
I suggest that you pick yourself up an SP1137 "Montana Credits" SP chip! :89-
This chip sends all extra coin credits to the credit window on the reel display!  :71-



Yes and no...at some point, the homeowner will realize that they should be using just one coin.
Also, the hoppers are not really made for dimes or pennies....they will jam too much and bend out the knife away from the faceplate of the hopper wheel.
Once a homeowner finds that out - I'm sure they'll stay with tokens or quarters....  :5-

Secondly, trying to drop a dime through a larger optic insert guide that's sandwiched in between the coin- in boards that are designed for a quarter, will cause a lot of ABC optic misses and really bad coin acceptance.
Yes, a few will get registered but most will miss the optic beams.
That's due to the optics missing the small coins passing through.

To prevent hopper jams, just tell the customers to periodically dump the contents of their hoppers onto the table
and sort out the smaller coins from time to time.
Tell them that it's a service charge for you to come over
and clean their hopper out of small, stuck coins causing bent knives.
Believe, once they see your bill  :56- :148- - they WILL stick with the right sized coins!  :72-

Is it possible for a bad CC to indirectly throw a 21 error code?  I'm asking because I have an old CC off of a Bally E2270-112 that I tried and the 21 code came back. As soon as I switched back to the CC I'm using now the Code 21 went away.  I also tried a CC that I recently bought on eBay from Slot Machines Unlimited but it doesn't work any differently than the one I'm using that came with the machine.  It also diverts the coin to the tray unless I hold back the rake or remove it completely.

Thank you for your replies as well as the reading links....Very Helpful!!

Where on the MPU does the SP1137 get installed and where could I purchase one?  I'm liking the idea of getting an SP1137 chip instead of buying another CC/board.

[quote Where on the MPU does the SP1137 get installed and where could I purchase one?  I'm liking the idea of getting an SP1137 chip instead of buying another CC/board.
[/quote]


The GAME PROM, circled in red!

The GAME PROM, circled in red!
[/quote]

The SP1137 gets installed in the socket you've circled.
You can place a WTB ad in the "Classifieds" section of NLG for the chip.


Yes, especially if it's the wrong one.
Some CC's have the inhibit line.
You SHOULD have the correct harness for the S+.
Do not use the junky 3-pin connector coin mech harnesses.
( People always install them onto the wrong 3 pins!!! )
Throw them away and get the correct one.

Also guys, when buying a CC, please make sure they have the two gray wires ( 24V) coming off the top of them.
The CC's I see on ebay are mostly 12 volt CC's with the two green wires!!!
Those are from S2000's - totally different voltages!

Mark  Don't want to get in a pissing match over 1 volt. but S 2000 calls for a 13 V

lol  you're right Buzz!  :89-
Thanks for noticing that!

Just to clarify a few things that were said in this thread:   the push button on the optics board will only be able to be tested while you are doing 11_1 optic test. you can check the optic using the paper method  or by pushing the button. IF EVERYTHING IS NORMAL WITH YOUR MACHINE  and it will not accept coins, and it will work using the push button, then 99% of the time the CC-16 is bad for what ever reason.
FOR CVSLOTS; Q-4, Q-2 removal.  the only thing this does is to remove a ground that will disable optic A,  THE CC-16  WILL OPERATE AS IT WAS DESIGNED, IT WILL ONLY ACCEPT THE TYPE OF COIN THAT IS IN THE CC AS A SAMPLE.  NOW---- if the rake has been shimmed out, then all bets are off ,and the cc will accept whatever is placed into it, (within the size limitations of the sample coin) at this point it becomes a straight through path to the optics. So if the cc is operating as it should, no smaller coins will get into the hopper to cause problems.
As to the overcoin situation: its possible even when the cc is operating properly (usually real fast insertion)  BUT--- the machine will allow one coin over the max.  as soon as the spin is complete, the hopper will turn on and return the extra coin. with the cc rake shimmed any coins over the max plus one will generate a code 21.

Now as to your problem not accepting coins:  your original cc could be bad, but getting a second one and it not work??? might lead to a problem with your machine.  I would check two things that would rule out the machine: 1= inspect the cc harness, make sure all wires are connected  especially the yellow and the black, also check that the three prong connector is good as well as the connector that goes back to the machine( no wires being pushed through when the two connectors are made). 2=  if you have a belly door, remove the cc-16 assembly (bracket and coin optics) plug in the assembly outside the machine,  close the door as normal operation and see if the red/green led come on when the machine is ready to operate.

Hope this helps

Jim                 
 

Good post Jim!
I like reading your posts because you can condense/clarify them a lot better then I can.
It's just that I get a lot of questions at once and there's usually a lot more involved...!!  :5-

Trouble-shooting problems like this is always somewhat easier after a few posts when I can get the info out of the member!!!
I think that's why I came up with the line:

"Remember, the more you tell us - the better we can help you!"

Jim - :244- :244- :244-  I feel better now...thank you.

-Roslyn