New Life Games Tech Forums

 :131- Thanks to all of you I have decided on purchasing a Tru-USB Pro GQ-4X programmer.  I need to know what chips I need for a Bally 5500 and an IGT S+.
I read that that one chip would be a 27C64 but is there a speed or something that goes along with the chip?

Sorry about my ignorance

Also where and what's a good price for the chips?

For the S+ I recommend you go with the SST 27SF512 from www.mouser.com
You can get them for less than 1.50 a piece. you want the PDIP version.
They are called flash memory chips, instead of EEPROM's probably due to speed of them 70ns.

For the Reel Chip use a Offset of C000, and the S+ will be happy. with them. Game, Set or Clear chips no offset needed.
I use them in my S2000 as well when I have a reel chip that is not fast enough to function in my S2000, no offset needed.

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMutXGli8Ay4kDVQEhlsw5vzIIzhkXFhcco%3d (http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMutXGli8Ay4kDVQEhlsw5vzIIzhkXFhcco%3d)

 :138- WOW that is a great price.  I was poking around ebay and google and they were much more!    When I know which Bally chips to get I'll order.
 :3-

If you have the schematic to the Bally it will list which ones are used where.

I know some machine's ROM's, not sure if it is Bally or who, that when you try to read the chip to make a backup, it self destructs.
They don't want anyone copying them.

LOL - That reminds me of my satellite tv days - If you read the card improperly it would do the same thing -  fried  :98-

Actually that is a myth about certain  eproms self destructing when you try to copy them.
Some proms, flash devices, chips called pals and gals, micro-processors etc., etc.  have what is called a fuse and some have what is called a lock bit depending on the device type.
Some have multiple lock bits.  When the chips are tampered with or when somebody tries to read the chip in order to copy it, the fuse blows. The chip is still functional though.  Fuses and lock bits are just protection devices that are implemented in order to protect the proprietary information that is on them. If your eprom  blew it was due to some other mal-function.
Regular dip based eproms do not have either of these types of protection, but some flash based proms in the PLCC package do.  In a 32 pin PLCC package these flash based proms look the same as a 32 pin eprom in the PLCC package.

Eric

but once the fuse blows isn't the chip dead forever? Hence destroyed?

The personality eproms for the S5500 and S6000 (S=System) are mostly 27c256.  Make sure you install them in the correct direction.
FYI, if you save them as bin files, the file is 1/8 the size of the eprom 256k/8 = 32k

Thanks,
Wayne

Thanks that's great to know - it will be exactly what I am doing.

S5500 mains are on 27c512, same as the S5500 Saferam Clear chips. S6000 mains are on 27c2001 chips same as the S6000 clear chips.
Obviously the mains from a S5500 and S6000 are not interchangeable, however the personality chips are.  You could put your Overload kit into an S6000 (Top, Belly, Reel strips and personality chips) if it didn't get broken that is.

Thanks,
Wayne

thanks rub it in. Like it doesn't hurt me already.

Hey, I have one (overload) with a broken belly glass also.  No intentions of rubbing it in.  **It happens.  I am very careful moving machines, however once in a while I am rushing and that's when it happens.  My most painful one was my S-Plus Sizzling 7s 3cm, I went to move it with a cart from the side, forgot the player tracking plate was off, as I held my hand on the machine and began to tip it onto the cart, the machine twisted a little and launched the award glass onto the concrete floor smashing it into pieces.  It seemed like slow motion but I couldn't catch it without dropping the machine.  My favorite machine that I  play at the casino is the 3 coin Sizzling 7s.  Painful lessons usually teach us better practices.  I try to check for the player tracking plate prior to moving machines now.

Thanks,
Wayne

Just an alternate suggestion:  :71-

There's nothing wrong with using these chips, and if you're going to be using them in an S2000 later on then they are a good choice. However, the S+ 10MHz boards will accept chips as slow as 200ns. If you know that you will only use the chips with an S+ 10MHz board you can save money by buying the slower chips used. (For the 16MHz board, it's either 150ns or 120ns, I'm not sure which.)

I bought 50  27C512 -20 chips for $25 including shipping on fleapay. It was a couple of years ago. I have no idea what they sell for now, though...

<ADD> These chips would be too slow for any of the newer machines. I don't know the speed requirements of the 5500 and 6000. I own a couple of 5500 ProSlots, but have never changed chips.

Before I go ahead and place the order can someone confim that I have the right stuff?

   
Mouser #:    511-M27C2001-10B    <-------------------------------------BALLY 6000 MAINS AND CLEAR CHIPS
Mfr. #:    M27C2001-10B1
Desc.:    UV & OTP EPROMs 2M (256Kx8) 100ns
RoHS:    RoHS Compliant
   
Availability
12    Ships Now
   $2.80    $33.60
   
Mouser #:    556-AT27C256R-45PU    <-------------------------------------BALLY 5500/6000 PERSONALITY CHIPS
Mfr. #:    AT27C256R-45PU
Desc.:    EPROMs 256Kb (32Kx8) OTP 5V 45ns
RoHS:    RoHS Compliant
   
Availability
12    Ships Now
   $1.23    $14.76
   
Mouser #:    804-27SF5127CPGE    <-------------------------------------IGT S+  SP AND SS CHIPS
Mfr. #:    SST27SF512-70-3C-PGE
Desc.:    Memory - MTP 64K X 8 70ns
RoHS:    RoHS Compliant
Info:    View Additional Product Info
   
Availability
12    Ships Now
   $1.45    $17.40

If you want used chips  go to epromman.com  50 for $25.00

Thanks - I'm sending him an email now.

16pcs - 27C2001 <---- Bally 6000 Mains/Clear

30pcs - 27C256 <----- Bally 5500/6000 Personality

30pcs - 27C512 <----- IGT S+    S2000?


I think I am getting the hang of this.

Thanks!  I got buckets of them from Dennis for a fraction of the cost new.

Thanks again.

I need some 27c040 chips to be used as GameMaker Mains and have a couple of questions.

Is there any difference between the 27c040 and 27c4001? Mouser's data sheet links point to the same pdf file for both, but the file doesn't list the 040 anywhere.
Is there a Flash equivalent?  The only chip I found was SST39SF040-70-4C-PHE, and the problem is that even if it's the right chip, Mouser has a minimum purchase of 150. :60-  If this is the right replacement, does anyone know where I can buy them in multiples of 1? (okay, 6 or 8 actually..)

Okay, I was able to confirm that the 27c040 and 27c4001 are the same.

Here is the 27C040:

(http://i39.tinypic.com/27wxam8.jpg)


I found a 29F040 on the Futurlec.com site. This pinout matches the SST39SF040 exactly, and it states that it uses a 5v supply even though it doesn't have the "S" before the "F"
(It's also an easier picture to use here) Here is the 29F040:

(http://i41.tinypic.com/i581tv.jpg)


What concerns me is that on the old CMOS chip, pin 31 is being used for address A18, and on the flash chips pin 1 is used for this address.  (Write Enable and Vpp voltage positions are also swapped, but I don't think that this is an issue when the chip is being read in a board. The programmer will handle the burn with no problems.)

So is there a compatible 4M flash chip to replace the 27C4001/27C040?

I saw some UV ones at Jameco.com for around $5 ea. depending on the speed you need.

At least you don't have to min. buy 150 pieces to place an order!

I don't understand Stat?...

I looked at epromman.com and he has both 27C4001/27C040 too.   Remember they come used and need to be erased.

What I'm really looking for is an electrically erasable version of the older CMOS chip. Those pinouts suggest that the 4MB Flash chip won't substitute because of the swapped pins #1 & #31. Has anyone used a newer flash chip to replace one of these 27c040 chips? If so, what chip did you use?

ohhhh Now I understand!

I've searched and searched in trying to locate those chips for you Stat, but....  I've come up with blanks....
I hate to say it, but it might be best to give a couple of these chip distributors a quick 1-800 phone call to see if they could come up with a good referenced and cross-checked compatiable match for the 27C40 eprom flash based type prom you're seeking?
I'm sure that the secretaries that answers their main desk phones at these distributors could put you in touch with someone who knows what they're talking about?

I thought he was looking for blanks  :72- :72-

 :72- I was speaking figuratativilty          (huh? I can't spell today...it's friday  :25-)  .....arghhh! whatever....lol

SB, that was a good idea, but it turned out to be a bust. I called Mouser and they said that they don't have a cross-reference book (or computer program). He said that all they they could do would be to go by the data sheets just as I did. :25-

Of course, those aren't much good if you don't know the correct replacement chip number! :37-

It looks like I'll have to get the original UV chips for the 4MB applications. :60-
I wonder why SST made all of the smaller SF chips backwards compatible but not this one? After all, we're talking about the swap of only two pins, not a completely different configuration.  :103-

Using a low profile 32 pin socket and ZIF socket you could make an adapter to use SST 29f040? chips in place of the 27C040

Would also depend how much room you have above the original socket.

Optional install a very small DPDT switch on the adapter between those pins and you could have a switch in one position swap the pins for the flash chips and the other position be normal for your 27c040 chips.

That could work. Would I use a piece of prototyping board to reroute the pins? :103- (32 pin low profile socket plugs into the slot board, with the prototype board on top and the ZIP on top of that to the side? Or did you have a different approach?)

I was thinking just use small wire and solder to the 1 and 31 on ZIF
Insulate them with heat shrink

Carefully fold them under and run the wires to switch or the socket depending how you decide to do it
if you use the switch then from the ZIF to switch
connect the pins from the low profile to the common poles

then use 2 short wires to make an X between the ZIF pole and the remaining.
It is the same trick used in some toys and such to reverse the direction of DC motors

Let me see if character diagram will help
Double Pole Double Throw Switch (slide style)

1         2  one pin of ZIF pins 1 and 31 to each pole (1 to 1, 31 to 2)

3         4  one pin of low profile pins 1 and 31 to each pole (1 to 3, 31 to 4) Common poles

5         6 now make an X with 2 wires from these pins to 1 and 2 (1 to 6, 5 to 2)

One position of the switch it will be for the 27c040 and the other for the SST chip


Mount the switch to the ZIF so ZIF still functions then run the wires to the low profile and stack the 2 sockets. so that the other 30 pins make proper connections.
Wire wrap or such wire would be best. you want the sockets to be tight. test and secure everything together.

This is similar to stacking say 2 different PROMS in a game and changing between them by a switch. Except you solder the 2 PROMs to each other except the Chip Enable or such and run those to a switch that connects to the socket's Chip Enable.

Now I understand. Thanks Foster. K+ :3-