New Life Games Tech Forums

I just got my GQ-4X programmer and have a few questions.   

First:   If you remember I have two chips from eBay that I believe to be mislabeled.   One was supposed to be a SET15 chip and the other was an SS6173.   How can I verify what's on these chips?  I have a good SET15 - can I backup that good working chip to a bin file, then create a backup from the other chip then compare the files? 

Back in the old site I posted a file that I think would answer many of your current questions...

I uploaded it in the Submit Files section and it's called "Willem_Eprom_Programmer-_How_to_Rev-1-01.pdf"

Hope it helps

Select the 27C512
Insert good chip
Read the known good set 015 chip into the software.
remove good chip
insert the questionable chip
pick Verify (Green V icon) the software will compare the good buffer with the data in the chip it will list each error by address.
(the software by default does this each time you program a chip)

That my man is brilliant -  I will do that in a bit.

If you read the SS chip with the software (if you do not know the chip type remove label and double check it)
 near the end of the 8K block you will see S+..#### (#### is the SS chip number)

Here's what's wierd...  I read both chips:

LABELED SS6173 Has the proper hex code in the 8K range - but it doesn't work in the machine.   I guess it's just a bad burn.


I attached the latest read.

what theme is the chip

It was a Black Cherry 3 coin machine - 


I did what you suggested and put in the suspected bad set15 chip then put in the good set15 chip and verified and this is what I got:
Verifying...Code Memory
Device is verified
Elapsed time: 4.16 seconds.

Then it should work, as long as it didn't error on you.
or read each one and if the checksum is different then you know they dont match as well.

It's nuts though  - why would i put that chip in I get a 61-1 ?????????? :103-


There is still something strange......

which chip?

61-1 is the error you get after a game change.

Check out Ricks Faqs and follow the instructions from a game change.....

What I have to do is put this SET15 chip in and see if it works.  

What should I be looking for when I place it in the unit?  I haven't had a need to use one yet.  

I know when I put the SS6173 in - It doesn't work   -    No 61-1, no moving reels, nothing just nothing.

I've read it - and I've done it with working chips without a problem  - -

I have emailed you some set instructions.

Thanks! I'm trying to figure out if the chips I ordered were eeproms or eproms -  I thought they were erasable because they were used from epromman.com

It would stink if they weren't

If the chip has a little glass window its eraseable via UVlight. A Eprom (no window) is typically a write once chip. Cheap.
EEProms are Elecrical Eraseable.More expensive but handy for people like myself that screwup often.

Stupid question -  How could I buy these used?  If they are used aren't they useless ??????

Yes buying a non-eraseable eprom would be goofy. I doubt that anyone would have the brass to sell them.....unless they were NOS - New Old Stock that have never been written too.

That is funny.... For sale large quanity of used Eproms..... Cheap....  :72- almost as bad as purchasing low mileage condoms.....

I should have mine tomorrow!  :131-  :131-

Sooooooo Is there an easy way to erase an eprom?  Can't I just write all 0's in it.

I guess I'll be shelling out some cash for an eraser.   :37-

http://cgi.ebay.com/EPROM-ERASER-Ultraviolet-UV-Lamp-Light-w-Timer-NEW_W0QQitemZ110297053158QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item110297053158&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 (http://cgi.ebay.com/EPROM-ERASER-Ultraviolet-UV-Lamp-Light-w-Timer-NEW_W0QQitemZ110297053158QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item110297053158&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)

 :72- Don't feel so bad Munch, I had to buy one too :96-

I was running outta chips real fast...lol

As far as "Can't I just write all 0's in it."...I'm not sure if that would work...I think it's worth a try to waste a chip.

If it doesnt work, when the eraser comes in, erase it!...voila!... you've saved the eprom for another shot!

Yaa I think I can get one for $21 including shipping from ebay.

If you buy the Electrical Eraseable Eproms - about 4x the cost of one that is eraseable via Ultraviolet that is exactly what you can do.
You simply erase the chip which takes it back to 0's.

OPBell made a supurb post about how a Mosfet works - with them being the building block of an Eprom.
From his description. You would likely be able to reburn and change a 0 into a 1 but not the otherway around.

So if you understand that all numbers represented in binary you could decifer what your alternate values could be...

HEX to binary is a rather quick conversion. If you think about Hex being 2 characters each between the value of 0 - F  (0 - 15 in decimal) you can
use this for each nibble (4bits) of the binary value.

Binary is the representation of a 1 or a 0 representing a number
0000     =  0          1000 = 8
0001     =  1          1001 = 9
0010     =  2          1010 = 10 (A in Hex)
0011     =  3          1011 = 11 (B in Hex)
0100     =  4          1100 = 12 (C in Hex)
0101     =  5          1101 = 13 (D in Hex)
0110     =  6          1110 = 14 (E in Hex)
0111      = 7          1111 = 15 (F in Hex)

Ie 10 HEX would be  0001 0000  (16 in Decimial)
    12 Hex would be  0001 0010  (18 in Decimal)
    0F Hex would be  0000 1111  (15 in Decimal)

Buildig on StayoutofBunker's (Bunky's ?) early post about having burnt in the wrong spot on the Eprom, you could likely sucessfully re-burn into other spots of the 27C512 that have not already been written too.

This is also why Canadians tell tell their wives they are going for "A" beer or perhaps Eh beer.

Jay,
Isn't it the other way around?  :103-
An erased eprom is all 1's. You can burn it to 0. Never can you burn an eprom 0 to a 1.
Only the ultraviolet light can add the 1's back into the eprom.
I've never used electrical erasable eproms, but I would suspect they too would be all 1's when erased.

I was just looking at the other thread to confirm before posting, and Uniman beat me to it by a minute. :5- :97- (from the time I started typing, not the post time :96-)
An erased EPROM is all 1's (FF in every location).

So an EPROM full of 0's would be completely written and could not be changed until erased.

The writing of 0's is at the bit level, so of you look at Jay's chart, you could change a written value to something else, as long as the change only involved writing 0's to replace 1's.

For example: You could change the value of D7 (1101 0111) to 13 (0001 0011).

Of course, this is just classroom talk. On a practical level this would be silly, since you would almost certainly not be able to change every contiguous value to the one needed for your program to work.

I'm with Uniman in suspecting that the EEPROM would work the same way, but I'll leave that to Op-Bell to confirm or deny.
P.S. I just had to give Uniman another K+ for beating me to it. :30-

The man with dialup beat you again. :97-

If you look at IGT eprom files you will see that all unused code is purposely written to zero.
This way nobody can add code later.

Universal didn't do this. All unused code was left full of 1's just waiting to be written to. And that's what Ron Harris did.
He chose Universal machines because of this lack of security.

Leaving unused code all 1's is bad security.  :30-

One reason they are no longer around!

Cool - Learn something new every day.

Makes you wonder what data code Harris added to the chip to make it tell the CPU to hit the jackpot (playing certain amount of credits in a certain way). Of course, that was never revealed on the broadcast I had seen. :60- :60- :60-

Great posts  -- I know now when i changed everything to 0's in the eprom it wrote properly  :30-
well since I already have a boatload of the UV chips I am going to dig a uv burner up on ebay.  They are not that expensive. 

I have that same eraser and it works fine. I think a lot of us non-pros have it (Pros need something bigger & faster - stronger light). You can fit a maximum of seven 28-pin EPROMS in the tray at one time. Apparently, the Chinese don't have the Mayan concept of zero down, so they just left the zeros off of this thing. "3" means 30 minutes. :5-  They also don't care much about customer safety. No, there's no lead in this thing, but there's no safety cutoff for the UV light when you pull the cheap plastic tray out either. :60-  They also have a fancy way of letting you know that the lamp is on and exciting those chips: there's a hole in the front of the door!  ..Now dat's sum Hy-Tekc darr. :30- :30-

You will usually want to set the timer for 35 minutes to ensure erasure of two or three chips. I've used as little as 20 minutes, but no guarantees. The less written to the chip (the more FFs) the less time it takes to get it erased. If you're in a hurry you can always check the chips (blank test) and return them to the eraser if they're not done. You shouldn't be in a hurry though. You can just use more blank chips to correct your mistakes, etcetera, while you're erasing your prior errors.

Of course, if that's too slow, there are these personal erasers:

http://www.advin.com/uv-eprom-eraser-lv.htm (http://www.advin.com/uv-eprom-eraser-lv.htm)

I think I even saw one of these on Joey's workbench, but it might have been a different manufacturer. :103-
While these may be very good units, I don't think many of us home slot owners would be willing to spend over $200 for a "personal" eraser.

Hey, they copied that model from plans stolen from NASA.  :96- BTW a small bolt and electrical wire cap makes that hole now a handy dandy tray handle  :5-

 Dan (tacman)

If you used a clear plastic handle you could have your light and handle too.  :79-

OR.........I could hook it up to a remote control...... :97-      :99- me >>>I'm losing it......ARGHHHHH!!

LIGHTED HANDEL !!!!   :5- :5- :5-

(http://www.happcontrols.com/images/10/121708.jpg)

# Trigger players interest in your handle machines with our new illuminated handle ball
# Can be illuminated in any color by 2 multi color LED’s controlled from the host machine
# Flashing, glowing, or any light pattern is possible
# Lightens the dark gap between slot machines
# Durable sonic-welded construction ensures a long lifetime
# Supplied with a special drilled handle to connect the wiring inside the unit

http://www.happcontrols.com/gaming/accessories/121708.htm (http://www.happcontrols.com/gaming/accessories/121708.htm)

$50 dollars a ball PLUS Happs controls famous shipping charges.........whooo whee!

(Do I sound just a little bit SARCASTIC)?  :96-....just kidding around...


I wanna make one.....lol....gotta go "ball" shoppin'  :5- :103-  that didnt come out right...

 :72- :72- :72- :72- :72-

I think they're cool. With one of these, a flashing dbv sign, and a topper, a machine could attract all sorts of Riff-Raff, and maybe even Magenta and Columbia. :96- :47-
(this crowd might be too square for that joke. Personally, I'd take Columbia. or better still, Janet.)  :30-

Radio Shack has this extractor for $9

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103244 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103244)

I think I'll stop in later today

I use Result1 extractor.

http://www.myslotnotes.com/Bent%20Screwdriver.htm (http://www.myslotnotes.com/Bent%20Screwdriver.htm)

Ron

It looks like the gray piece on the left might be the right tool for slot EPROMs, but it's hard to tell.

It looks like it would work with the correct attachment.. The 28 pin adapter should suck the baby right out.

Yeah - I looked online and my local store doesn't have it.  I have to go a few more miles to get one.   
No problem since I drove 300 miles  each way to get my last slot!   :97- :97- :97-

Stat they are all too old for you now.....
I haven't seen Tim Curry in much lately. I have heard rumors of a remake replacing meatloaf with jack black.

"Oh shit! What a bitch! Quick, Magenta, Pull the switch!"  :79- :72-

Stat,

We are NOT square....you keep pounding us on the head with that frying pan  :30- ...we're flat now! :96-

Grrrrrrr all the EPROMs I bought have stuff on them..... It's off to eBay

munch,
Did you get the "pre-written" eproms from that "Eprom-man" guy?

I'd tell him to send me his eprom eraser.... does he advertise as the eproms as new,
pulls, or erased?

I did get them from epromman.com - He was very nice and is sending me the 30 chips that were not included in my order.  I guess he clearly states that they are used.     I just wanted to try and see if my backup would work.

I am still fuzzy on this:  If my original eprom is 27C512 and I read it and burn it to another 27c512 then why the need for the 00c000 offset?

If you read it as a 27c512 and write it as a 27c512 you don't need the offset.
Most of the "backups" from "orginals" come from 27c64's.

Potentially you could read a 27c512 as a 27c64 (just like your slot does) and would have a binary file that would require the offset upon writing.

I agree with Jay.
Correct me if I'm wrong with this...
If the file is from a 27C512 but doesn't have the data (when read) beginning on line "C000"- it wont work when copied to a 27C512 also right? That file would have be a corrupted file?

You'd have to first correct that file before copying?

Ditto Marc's question - also is there any way (other than destroying the label) to know what type chip it is?

Put it in your reader and select "ID".
It may say "no device selected"
If it does, select what you think it is, put it in the reader and hit "ID"
It will tell you.

 :97- :97- :97- :97- :97- :97- ohhhh craps....now I really feel stupid..."ID" button...duh :25-
Thanks UNIMAN!+ 

You learn something new everyday.........

Don't feel stupid, I fumbled with mine when I first got it two years ago.
I find it best to always ID the chip first before reading it. My older GQ sometimes does not see the eprom completly or correctly.
The ID response will be "device may be damaged" when there is a problem. Reseating the chip usually helps.
When I get the expected response, like "AMD27c512", only then do I proceed.

Yaaa thanks! K+
That will help a great deal.

:97- :97- :97- :97- :97- :97-

I figured Rocky Horror played mostly on the two coasts, but by now it's everywhere. The first time I saw the movie was in 1980. A girlfriend in high school introduced me to it, so watching the film always reminds me of those memories. :91- :91-  Back then we all used BIC lighters, but I understand that they are forbidden today due to fire regulations. Flashlights just don't work for me -- there's nothing quite like being in a large theater with 'candle' light from 300-500 lighters!

btw, what makes you think that I'm not pounding myself on the head? :127- :30-