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Tired of bent pins, I'm considering adding ZIF piggyback sockets to my game and reel chip sockets on my S+ board.  Anyone have any recommendations on whether I should or shouldn't do this?  I've found 28 pin Standard ZIF sockets for $4.50 at futurelec here: http://www.futurlec.com/SockZIF.shtml
Is that what I want?  JR

JR,
There's another thread that's been going that'll give you all the answers you're looking for on ZIF's.
Type in ZIF on the search box on top of the page....you'll see the latest stuff....

JR -  I was going to do the exact same thing.  There were a few issues that I came across:  The futurlec model you were looking at is longer than the current socket and will interfere with the jumper that's in front of it.   If you can stomach bending the jumper down there is a second issue:   It makes the socket much higher and you run the risk of hitting the back of the cabinet.  The third:  the pins on the ZIF are not that long and the socket sometimes falls out so other members crazy glue it in.

Those three things are pointing me in the direction of a proper IC extractor for easy "in and out"

Think I'll get an extractor, the one without the big red X.  Anyone have a used one for sale?

yeah the one in radio shack is no good too.   The item that "looks" like it just puts the chip in.  It doesn't take it out.

I have one of my S+ boards using the low profile zifs. They work great. My only gripe is the cost.
I have 3 S+'s and 6 boards. The boards I picked up on Flea bay for $19.99each and I think the two zifs were 26.00 with shipping (within the US).
I was not too concerned about ruining a board since I paid so little for it.

I used a dot of model Airplane glue at the end of a toothpick at each end. My rationalle is that if I needed to remove the zif socket I would still be able to get a jewlers screwdriver between the two sockets and pry.
The model plane glue doesn't have the strength of the superglue. I have not had any problems with it falling off nor interfering.

I would like to get zifs for all of my boards but its on my want-2-dos rather than my need-2-dos. I keep thinking someone is going to find a super deal on these and I can get the cheap some day.

Just to be clear My Need-2-dos fall somewhere lower than my Honey-dos and higher than my should-dos and want-2-dos.

Don't be scared guys!
There's differences between boards...you just gotta check and see what you have is all!
Check out these photos...you'll see the differences between the 10MHz and the 16MHz boards and where the ZIF sockets will go into.
You'll see the jumpers are on the very corners of where the ZIF would be placed.
The board with the big green ZIF socket is on a 10MHz board which had the jumpers soldered toegether with a small wire>>

Finally, the 10MHz board with the big green ZIF socket installed and the jumpers soldered together underneath the ZIF>>
click on photo to enlarge it:

Second photo is underneath the green blocks>>

Looks like I have a 10 MHZ board.  Guess I'll just keep using my trusty old steak knife and forget the Zif $$$ocket$.  Should I upgrade to a 16MHZ board?  Pros/cons?

Pros - Faster especially in counting credits.
       - Sound adjustment within the self test (no wheel)

Cons - Limited number of game chips available (Ie no tournament chips, no older 731, some special game chips for themes I dont have).
        - Irritating buzzing noise

         *** The 731 supports the alternate songs for games like 4th of Jully and Bulls eye.

Question: Could you not just put the ziff in backwards...... and mark it with a sharpie indicating which way the chip goes ?

Finally, if you have a board WITH the jumpers, no problem...
there's plenty of room...look carefully and you'll the jumper covers are actually thinner
than the board sockets.
Any ZIF socket (Green, blue,black,white with pink polka dots?) will defintely clear the bent down jumpers! :89-
The jumpers are nothing more than 3 wires sticking straight up from outta da board...there's absolutely no harm if you bend them down with the jumper cover flat against the board.
Look closely, on the reel prom , one unused jumper pin is sticking straight up! (no need to bend that one)
On the game prom, bend all three pins down flat...
 Sometimes there's a little yellow resistor like one one in front of that game socket in the second pic.
Again, no harm if you bend it flat down...

Thanks for the great pictures!

Okay, I'm getting the nerve to actually switch games, as soon as I get a kit. Here's my questions: I have one of the green block looking ZIF sockets. If your board is a 10MHz, can a 16MHz chip be used and vise versa?  I just checked mine and it's a 10MHz. I see from the photos that the reel chip says 16MHz. Thanks!!

Duhhh?? If I'm right, your board is a 10MHz with a 16MHz reel chip. I may have answered that question myself, but nonetheless, is that what I'm seeing??

Also, does the board actually need to be compleatly taken out of the machine for a chip change?

Yes, a faster chip can be used in a slower board, but not visa versa.
The 10mhz board is prefered by most, if not all.



Um,,,,,, how else do you plan to change chips? :103- :103- :103- :103- :103-

Begin Quote[Also, does the board actually need to be compleatly taken out of the machine for a chip change?]End Quote

Yes,
There's absolutely no other way possible....
unless you cut a hole thru 3/16" thick steel and install a door on the back of your machine.... :96-
If your machine is against the wall, you'd have to cut a hole in the wall too and
install the chip from the backyard of your house...I could go on and on but,
 my fingers are missing the keys from laughing as I'm typing... :72- :97- 
(sorry, I'm just kidding)
Pull out the hopper a couple of inches, reach in and grab the black knob and wiggle the knob upwards, guide the whole silver tray over the hopper and out of the machine....if you're strong, take the hopper out first and try not to spill all the quarters on the floor.

Hey guys, everyone started somewhere.  As stated the main board just lifts out, takes no time at all.  see pic.

W

You're right a69mopar,
I lost my britches there for a moment...
remember, please 5Aces, don't remove or insert the board while the power is on...
Once you have the board out, place it on a good bench and carefully study it it...you'll be amazed what all that stuff does esp. when you have a board schematics laid out in front of you...if you really want to get into it, try to learn what each component does. You'll soon have a super understanding of how a slot machine works!

The low profile from Jameco might be a better way to go.  Appears that it may clear the select pins ???

Mount it backwards so it clears the small yellow cap.

Not cheap though, $7.65 each or 5.44 in quanty greater than 10.

Ok, I've seen this subjet being bandied about several times, and it's prompted me to get off my butt and pull the board out of the S+ to show you all how it's done. :96- :96- :96- :72- :72-

This is with the Jameco Low-pro ZIF sockets. You'll notice how one has to be rotated 180 degrees from the other one to clear the jumper. Other than that, it's a slam-dunk addition.

LOL!! I should have asked that question a little bit different! What I ment was after the board is out, do you have to diconnect any wires/harness after it's lifted out of the back, or does it connect through PCI type plugs? After I read my own question I split my britches too! :97-

Slide it in, slide it out... :89- :71-

Okay, I now see how it's done!! I finally got the guts and pulled out the hopper and then the board. I always thought that big metal cover just came off and then the chips and board were just sitting behind it. But everyting is one big piece, board, cover and all. That's cool!! Now I see why you can take everything out and change the chip on your kitchen table. Whew!! I thought I was going to have to do the hole cut in the back of the machine like stayouttadabunker suggested!! :97-

Remember, there's no problem that can't be solved with the judicious application of explosives!  :97- :97-

True, very true!! As you tinker with these things, you start to see how everything is built to be fixed on the spot. It's amazing how everything just comes out and very little is needed to actually change or fix something inside the machine. It makes sense though, being that a broke machine won't make money for the casino and fixing it on the spot get's it back up in no time. If it were only as easy to do this with every other electronic device!! WOW!!

Now you need to bend a small flat screwdriver to use to take out the eproms.

W

Can I do this: I haven't found the kit I'm looking for yet. However, can I remove the reel eprom, insert that big green ZIF socket and put the original reel eprom back in without any problems or error code resets? This way, I'll have it ready for the new eprom and get some practice at doing this.

Aside from the physical issues that occur when using the larger ZIF sockets on the S+ motherboard, which have already been covered here, you won't have any issues or errors removing and replacing the same reel EPROM with the added ZIF.

Do these work for pulling out the EPROM? I found one by accident at a friends house and he said that's what it's used for.

They are for PLLC chips (the square ones with leads coming out on all 4 sides.

This is the correct tool for pulling the standard PDIP 28-40 pin chips that are in most slots.
It brackets the chip on both sides to insure that the chip comes straight up without bending pins and then presses down on the socket/board when you pull the trigger to gain even leverage.

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2mzrc6.jpg)

Actually, I don't even think those would work for the PLCCs, as the legs are too wide to fit in the corners of the socket.

They are made to pull EPROMS, but they're pretty much guaranteed to bend or break the legs. They are too cheap a design to do a good job. Get the one Stat has pictured in his post, you will not regret it!

Where is a good place to buy the correct EPROM puller? Anybody have one they want to sell?

Radio Shack:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103244 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103244)

Here's the correct PLCC extrator, if you need one of those:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062619 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062619)

While Radio Shack does have the correct DIP extractor, (I bought mine there), that link is not the correct one.
Thats the same junk extractor he has, the other device with it is an inserter.

If you are looking for this style http://www.ohiogaming.com/chippuller.htm (http://www.ohiogaming.com/chippuller.htm). I have them for $10 including first class shipping.

I was hoping I could find the other larger silver ones. My friend actually has both kind, but does not have this one:

That is for PLCC's not DIP's.
You will damage your slot eproms using this device!!!
ED

I got one of those with my programmer....
It's been in the plastic bag since day one...
It's never been opened...
If you use one of those on a e prom, all it takes is that one freaking time the e prom twists in your hand
and you'll be cursing at yourself why you so were too  :58- cheap to spend the money to get the right puller in the first place. :89-

It's called the Jonard EX-2, or the OK EX-2. If you do a google search for "DIP Extractor EX-2" you will get some hits.

Happ has them, but their shipping is a bitch. Here is the link anyway.
http://www.happcontrols.com/tools/92025300.htm (http://www.happcontrols.com/tools/92025300.htm)

I found them on this site, but I have never bought from them and have no idea what they are like to do business with:
http://www.specialized.net/ecommerce/shop/layout.asp?product_id=122X081&OK-Industries,-IC-Extractor-EX-2 (http://www.specialized.net/ecommerce/shop/layout.asp?product_id=122X081&OK-Industries,-IC-Extractor-EX-2)

Here is the least expensive site that I found. Again, I have no knowledge of this site or it's reliability OR it's shipping charges:
http://www.all-spec.com/1/viewitem/EX2/ALLSPEC/prodinfo/w3path=cat (http://www.all-spec.com/1/viewitem/EX2/ALLSPEC/prodinfo/w3path=cat)


I highly recommend this tool. It supports the chip walls on either side and pushes down on the sides of the socket to ensure that the chip is pulled straight out without bending pins. You squeeze the trigger like a gun, so your are not pulling the chip out with arm motion. I was just showing this to Buzz this afternoon, and I was able to pull three chips in about six seconds, all with perfectly straight pins.

It also has a pin to attach an alligator clip to ground for any anal types that are extra worried about static discharge.

Thank you StatFreak!! Those are some very helpful links. I never knew the "Exact" name for those pullers, so everytime I googled it came up with everything but the one I wanted. I figured that I had better invest in one of those and do it right the first time. The college I work at has an old electronics lab. We tried pulling eproms out of a bunch of old boards with the $.99 pullers and it was a hit a miss deal. We destroyed a few of them and I needed the practice anyway for the real thing on my machine when I go to change out eproms. Thanks again for the links!!

I actually got mine from all-spec.com...if you're going to do all lot of pulling...buy two...they wear out.

I just purchased one there tonight. The other site, http://www.specialized.net/ecommerce/shop/layout.asp?product_id=122X081&OK-Industries,-IC-Extractor-EX-2 has a minimum $25 order, or an $8 low order charge on top of anything below $25. And Happcontrols.com, NEVER AGAIN!!

What's your definition of a lot of pulling? Do you mean a professional slot tech or an active home user?

lol...how about a really extreme home user?? :72-

After over a thousand chip pulls, my bent screwdriver is still going strong. :89-

W

I've probably pulled chips about 200-400 times with my EX-2 and it's still in near mint condition. I would expect it to last at least 10 to 20 times as long (2000-4000 pulls), but I'm just guessing since mine really shows no sign of wear. That's why I asked the question.

Of course, if you drop a power supply transformer on it or put it at the bottom of your tool chest and drop heavy socket wrenches all over it O & O, I suppose it wouldn't fare as well.  :5- :25-

Okay, I'm almost ready to jump into this thing! I got the silver chip puller and two low-pro zif sockets. Here's the question: No game kit yet, but it's in the mail. Removing the board, can I also remove the GAME PROM, insert the low-pro zif socket into that one as well, without having any errors or resets? I may as well install the zif in the game PROM too, but does taking out the SAME GAME PROM and then re-installing it cause any errors? It will be the same game PROM but a different reel PROM.

Why not divide and conquer ?

What I mean is that you have a working game, by changing too much at one time if you have problems its harder to troubleshoot.

 My suggestion is that you pull your existing Game and Reel Chips, add the Ziffs, pop the chips back in.
You should not need to clear, or use a set chip or anything. It should work just as it is now.

When your game kit comes and you change it out. If you have problems then you know its the game kit and not the zifs....

Very well put! Being that the zif's are here, I just figured that I might as well pop one into the game PROM while I had the board out, so it would be easier in the future, if I decided to change that one as well. I was just concerned that taking out the game prom and then putting it back in, may cause me to lose my settings with the BV and what not. It will definitely be a new experience doing this, but it's not really a hard thing to do!!

make sure the notch on the chip faces the rest of the board...the notch less side of the chip faces the edge.
Always, turn the power OFF when removing or replacing the board...can we call this the MPU now?
The board on the floor is actually called the "motherboard" while the big one is the MPU.
If you have ANY questions, we are inviting you to please ask!
No question is too dumb or intelligent...there's so many knowledgeable help on this forum that a bunch of guys are willing to jump in at any time of the day to help ya!
That how everyone learns and is what makes this website so freaking fantastic!

Thank you VERY MUCH!! With this crew and their helpful, knowledgeable ways, it does make this site fantastic and so very enjoyable to visit!! Thanks Again!!  :131- :3- :131-