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OK Guys this one has me kinda stumped.
     When I first started working on IGT S and S+ games they had coin in switches.....Something many of you have never seen LOL anyway I am working on some later machines that have embedded WBA's in them and need to bypass (eliminate) the coin in Handling (optics & Comparator). I looked it up in my 1993 S+ factory embedded book under coin in handling and it shows the
wiring diagram for the coin sw with comparater going to pin4 and 10 of the p301 (12 pin) plug. The coin in sw is shown wired as Normally open with nothing connected to the normally closed side of the sw. However when I unplug this harness I still get a 21 Error code. Can anyone tell me a way to bypass the coin in optics so that the game will play and not look for a coin in signal ??
I am of the frame of mind that it is the later SP's that are causing the problems in this endeavor.
At any rate any info would be appreciated as always.
Slot Docs

Hello!

I'm just curious - why would you need to eliminate the coin in pieces?  Couldn't you just leave them in there and not use them?  Unless you don't want to have the parts in the machine...

I seem to remember an old post where someone had done this with a jumper wire on the comparator connector.  Can't remember if it was for a S+ or S2000 or if it was on the old forum - I will do some searches...

Dan #2

SlotDoc:   What are you trying to do ?  I don't understand ----do you have a switch, or optics, is there a coin comparitor or a mechanical coin mech?

Why do you want to eliminate the coin in circuikts or bypass them?


I think I have a solution,but I'll wait for your response.

Jim

Just to solve everyones curiosity,
This particular batch of games is going to a game room and all they use in the rooms is the BV and they use the games
set up as knock offs (where you key the credits off). I would like to be able to keep the coin in handling for future use
for machines that I sell for home use as an amusement game, or to replace bad ones when I need to on Service calls to
Games in peoples game rooms (home Use)
Slot Docs

Is this the switch you're trying to bypass?

hey There,
      Nope that is the service coin button.....located on the coin in optic assembly. I want to be able to remove the coin in optics
by unplugging them at the 12 pin connector for the coin in harness and still have the game function. That way I can use the coin in optic assembly, diverter, lockout, and or comparator for other games.
Slot Docs

oh!
okay, you want to get rid of all the coin mech and everything - just use the DBV alone. :89-
Will  IGT give you any answers?, I'd call their support unit...? :103-
There must be a way to do that because none of their machines use coins anymore. :60-

You can use a "dummy plug" to make the machine think that the coin gear is in the machine. You remove the entire coin mechanism wiring harness and plug the "dummy" into the end and it loops around. I will see if I can get a picture for you. april

That would be awesome April!
That's exactly what SlotDocs is looking for...

What he ^^ said. Thanks for posting April. :3-

You've got me curious as well. Is it as simple as looping a wire or two or are components needed to simulate a signal that the software is looking for?

Must be similar to the Bally plug in you can use instead of the hopper.  My first machine came modified so you didn't need coin or hopper.

Hey there April,
      Thanks for posting, That is indeed what I am looking for........a pin out of the device along with that pic would be fantastic.
Thanks.
Slot Docs

Here is a pic of the plug. april

hey there April,
      Again thanks for posting the pic......I have a question for you though. The pic of the plug you show has 15 pins
the coin in assembly connector on the S+ games are only 12 pin. This looks like the jumper used to turn 4 or 5 reel
Reel harnesses back into three reel harnesses. In other words end of reel Harness jumper. IE it would plug into a the 4th reel position on a 4 reel harness if that game was to be turned back into a three reel game or if it was a 5 reel harness being made
into a 4 reel then it would plug into the fifth reel position. I believe that it loops certain features of the reel circuits back.
Slot Docs

I have no idea what I'm talking about...lol.

I think this might be for a S2000 - to use the "coinless" feature.  Not sure if a S+ ever supported this because of the lack of a ticket printer.  But again, I'm not sure.

In a S2000 with this jumper installed, does anyone know if you are also able to remove the coin optics along with the comparitor?

Dan #2

In a S2000 if the connector is installed you can remove the coin comparator and optics and the machine will play as long as the coinless option is enabled. Hope this helps.

Which in turn begs the question:    Does any of the S+    SP eproms allow for a coin-less option?
And, which pins are jumped on a 12-pin molex plug?

This is what is installed in an S-2000 with out a coin comparator, and no coin head.

Jim,
Thanks for the picture! :3-
Is that harness plugged into a small board with one chip on it? :103-
It sort of hard to see from the flash reflection upon the chip itself...

Ok here's the answer people,
    Thanks to Jim looking into the schematic. Jumper Together pins 2,4,6 & 10 on the 12 pin connector where the coin in assembly plugs in..
Once again Thanks Jim much good Karma to you.......... :131- :131-
Slot Docs

Mark    its a IDX personality plug?????

Jim

It's quite possible Jim, but I haven't played with IDX's...I couldn't effectively give you a good answer on that.
My love is for the old S+'s and CC16-D   24VAC coin mechs....


Great job on the schematics reading, Jim!  :3- I've long wished for a better, clearer copy....  :37-

Well,
I made this coin-less jumper....plugged it in and got error code "21".

Did I jump the wrong pins? :103-

I have pin#2 going to pin#4 and pin#6 going to pin#10.
See picture diagram  I posted up>>>

If it's too small to see, click on the photo and it'll get bigger...

Hey Bunker,
      Jumper 2 to 4, 4 to 6, 6 to 10. you will have two wires in the same connector at pins #4 and #6.
so that they are all tied togother. Or strip the wire between the ones you have already and just tie the tops together.
Slot Docs

Thanks for the answer SlotDocs!....but, why oh why do I feel like the guinea pig? :72-

 :72- :72-  Just play "Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" by The Platters when you test your machine to make it feel right at home.  :25- :47-

SB did you ever win the auction for the free play?

No Munch,
the bidding got crazy...the winning bid with shipping was over 80 bucks!....nuts

Wow that is nuts!

yes...too much for my wallet...
BTW  Stat, you really oughta consider a stint in show biz....I'd buy a ticket to one of your comedy fests :96-

http://www.youtube.com/v/57tK6aQS_H0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1

Oh by the way,
    Nice diagramming job on the plug you made SB
Slot Docs

Thanks SlotDocs,
I wanted to be clear and precise in my question...you gave me an excellent answer -  which I will try tomorow...

 :98-

Good luck...let us know what you find :)

Dan #2

Okay,
I cut the loops and soldered all 4 ends together (same as connecting the loops)
Enabled the DBV with SET90 chip, and put in a SP1271.
Removed the coin mech harness and stuck the "coin-less" plug on the end of the harness.
Booted up the old S+ and voila!  Game ready!  :91-
Threw in a dollar in the DBV to get 4 credits - as the DBV is set for .25 denomination. :89-
4 credits show up in the credit display, played one credit at a time...worked perfect! :89- ...no error codes until......

I got a cherry on the payline. Worth 2 credits...hit the cash/credit button to see what would happen.....?

Error code "3200" pops up...
The MPU is still looking for the hopper even though there's none :8-

How to proceed? :99-

 

Thats the next trick emulating the hopper, or set your hopper limit to 0 so all cash outs become hand pay

Hey guys,
     Set the hopper partial pay to zero.........that will make all cash outs hand pays.
then when you cash out the machine will go into hand pay mode with audible alarm, use reset key and it will run off credits and return to game mode ready for a new bill.
Slot Docs

You could also set the hopper limit to 9999 and disconnect the cash/credit button.
This way you don't have to deal with the reset key. Not sure if this would bypass the hand pay for the top 2 awards though.

Awesome, I already have the "partial pays" set to zero, but I didnt think about the hopper limits as pointed out by Foster.
I will try that!


ADD>>>>>>>>    *********IT WORKS!********** :136-


Perfectly....now I gotta find an credit output open/closed signal for the printer :96-

Hello everyone,

 I came across this post, and was wanting to do this to my S+ 5X.

 The only problem is that I do not have the plug pictured in this thread in my machine, because it is a slant top.

 The coin comparitor, optics, and hopper all run through one plug.

Would it be possible to post the origin of those wires that were jumped to make this work?

or maybe the pins to jump on a slant top?

Thanks, sorry I am new to these machines. :99-

Does your slant machine have a Bill Acceptor?
The reason I ask is because if there's no DBV -
you won't be able to add credits to your game!

yes, it does have a bill acceptor. thank you

The machine has a DBV-45-SS that is functional in it, if the kind of bill acceptor makes a difference.

There must be a main molex connector coming from the MPU box up to the Coin-In stuff.
The main harness splits at the hopper?
Is there a another white molex connector mating the harness up to the coin mech?
Or is it all one continuous wire from the MPU up to the coin mech?

There is a main molex connector (20 pin) coming from the MPU, and out of that 20 pin molex connector the wires run directly to the coin in area, and the hopper, and has one harness that goes to another board on the side of the machine.

But everything is straight from that 20 pin molex comnector, to it's final destination in the machine.

Looks like you're gonna need a slant top machine expert
who might have done a coin-less mod.
I only did it for the S+ uprights.
It will require wiring schematics reading of a slant top machine
to figure out what wires need to be jumped to fool the MPU into
thinking the coin mech is still there.
Even once the bypass-plug is made, you still have to go into the options settings
of the slant and change some settings there as well.

I thinking it's possible that some of the vendors might have made this mod for a slant top machine.
Get a hold of April at SlotsUnlimited or Ken at Ohioslots.
They gave me excellent input last time I was doing this mod.

I'm sorry, that 20 pin molex is actually to the power supply to all those components.

On the top of the MPU there are several other molex connections that go to the power supply.

One of the ones not used is a 12 pin molex, but there is nothing attached to that socket.

Does the 12-pin molex look like the one in reply #22 post I had for the S+ upright?
If so, I'd jumped the same pins in the wiring diagram I had drawn up.
Only, tie them in together as was suggested by SlotDocs in reply #23.
It's basically 4 wires tied together...
I just threw a drop of hot lead solder to keep them together.
There's two ridges on the left side of the molex and this is looking at the plug
from behind where the wires come out of it>>>

Thanks stayouttadabunker, for trying to help me out.

I will try that,

yes, the plug looks the same, but has nothing in it currently.

So maybe I should just try to jump it there, and then disconnect what is currently going to the coin area. and not worry about where it is comming from?

I did try to jump them there, and seemed to have no effect.

I pulled the powersupply cover off, and it seems that the whole coin area harness goes through that 20 pin molex, and then goes to J4 on the backplane board. the rest of that harness splits off to other sockets on the backplane.

Replys #34,#35, and #36...you need to really read these and
understand how you can set your slant to do the same in order for the jumper bypasses to work!
Don't skip any instructions you may see in this thread....
They all apply to making this bypass work successfully...
if not, then I'd start planning on leaving the slant top coin mechanisms intact until
we get a better look at the wiring schematics for your slant machine.

Hey guys,
      The slant tops games use the S style of connector (same as hoppers) it would be possible to jumper the plug there
or use the wires just below the plug and use scotch lock idc connectors (suitcase style) on it to do the bypass, the wire
colors should be the same as in the uprights. I don't have access to that info right at this time but will check it out later
Slot Docs

Thank you, Slot Docs.

 The wire colors, or origins would be very helpful.

  With that info, I should be able to just do the bypass, as you suggested.

  Unfortunately, I do not have an upright to look at the origins of the wiring to that molex connector.
 

should be easy to do;  :5- go to the download and get the repair manual, go to page 21 , ABC optic.  :71- pull the coin unit out of the machine, remove the coin comp., unplug the 10 pin connector from the optic board, remove the two screws that hold the assembly together,separate the two boards, find the three output transistors on the schematic, outputs A B C  (collector of the transistor)  they go to the out put pins of that board. temp. plug the connector back in and see what wires are involved. then some where in the middle of the run over to the plug that mates with the cabinet plug, cut those three wires ( the reason we want to do it in the middle so it can reconnect at some point down the road) then find the ground pin ( 7)  see what color wire it is ( same process) then connect the ground wire to the other three and that should work! the three wires that will be connected to the ground will be on the side that comes from the cabinet plug,NOT THE ABC OPTICS PLUG.  :60- then ( because you observed everything as you were disassembling it ) re assemble and place back in the machine, and you should be good to go.  :103- You shouldn't have to make any adjustments, slant top and uprights use the same board and software just different placement  of the hardware  and small changes to other units to accommodate a sit down version.

Hope this helps   :96- 

Jim

Ok Learninginsa,
    Wire colors on upright are as follows pin 2 orange/with black trace, pin 4 orange/with red trace, pin6 orange with yellow
pin 10 green, pin 10 is the ground. at the plug in the upright there are 2 green wires in pin 10, but any solid green should
have the same function.....
Hope this helps you out
Slot Docs

Thanks you, stayouttadabunker,Jim, and Slot Docs.

 You all have been a very big help, and I got it to work.

 Sorry, it took me so long to get back on here to thank you.

 I was away from the computer, and under the weather all week.

Thank you again, for all your help with this matter.

NO Problem,

Glad to hear you got it going
Always glad to be of assistance

Slot Docs

Hi, I came over this thread. I have a question I hope anyone can answer  :103-

I have an old IGT S+ slot. I want to keep the coin mech and optics, and add an extra coin mech.

Why? Well, I want to use all kind of coins on the machine. I know it's possible, because i've seen it done before  :89-

How can I add an extra coin mech to the slot? just givin out N.O / N.C pulses after what the coin is worth ?

Erik

I can tell you flat out, you have never seen it done using a CC 16 D 24 volt Coin Comparitor !  S+ machine the comparitor does not send out a pulse when the a coin is passed through it. It reads the coin and compares it to the sample coin you have installed. If it's a good coin it then passes through the coin optics and is counted as one credit, the coin optics does not care what size the coin passing through is, it will only give one credit per coin. ( I didn't go into the optic shim issue )

It may be possible to use a IDK X-10 Xeptor I don't know quite how they work, reason being I have never had one that wasn't a piece of JUNK.  ( I throw them away )

If you accomplish what your idea is ( any and all coins ) what are you going to do about the hopper and pay out ?? 

The X10 acceptor is designed to do this.

The problem with using this with a S+ is that the coin hopper will Jam with the wrong sized coins on any kind of cash out.
You can set hand pay to 1 coin, crank the hopper limit to 9999 and disable the cash out button by yanking the switch wire but you can still run into problems,

For instance on some games if you accidently put in 4 coins rather than 3 (on a 3 coin game)
Some games will run the hopper to kick back a coin.

So if you setup your machine for nickles and dropped in a quarter into the x10 it could try and spit out 2 coins.
The hopper having a bunch of the wrong kind of coins can then jam.

You would need to find a game that uses montana credits. Montanna credits allow the game to keep extra coins as credits vs popping them back out.

Here's my ide :96- The extra coin mech drops coins into a coin-box in the slot-stand.
The extra coin mech takes all types of coins and the slot gives them value / credits depending of what kind of coin it is.
This will work paralell with the original coin mech (where one coin is valued one). The slot pays out standard coins from the hopper.
I've seen this be done on the old ferry between Norway and Denmark.
I've made a sketch in paint to explain what I mean, sorry for my bad picture.

Sorry for my bad english, I'm an Norwegian.

Erik

The Coin Comparator does not signal a S+ anything about the coin.
It just compares it to the sample coin and either lets it go to optics or rejects it.

The S+ optics signal the mpu as it passes through each optic (they are only about 1/4 inch apart and staggered)
Once the coin clears the optics then credit for the coin is given to the current game to be played or if allowed to the credit meter (depends on which game (SP) chip used.
Most casinos in the US the S+ could only accept coins up to the max bet per game, extra coins had to be returned to player (either by the coin comparator being inhibited or at end of game play if the coin got by the comparator - fast feeding)

Only platform I am familiar with that even signals a coin has been accepted by the coin comparator is the S2000 (if the comparator does not signal that a coin is good and lets the coin to the optics the s2000 goes into a coin in error tilt)

Sounds like they have a different type of coin mech for the other coins below -
similar to the ones they use in soda and vending machines.

Those coin mechs tally up the values of the coins inserted much like in the way of a bill acceptor unit.
When the total amounts come up to the value of 1 credit, the machine spits out the soda or candy and change is returned.

I imagine this type of unit can be hooked up ( in parallel ) to the lines of the S+ coin-in optic or bill acceptor wires?
I've never tried it though...  :128-

Here's something I've never thought of though...>>>
Say you want two $1.25 soda pops right?
You throw in a $5 dollar bill into the bill acceptor and push the soda button.
One soda pop should come out.
Now, does the machine spit out $3.75 in change or can you push the soda pop button to get another soda pop
and the machine then gives you $2.50 in change?  :129-

You can not wire 2 or more sets of optics in parallel
each set of optics would be holding the optic input lines low
even if one set gets a coin the other optics are holding the inputs low.
Machine never detects the coin passing through one set of optics

As far I know soda machines basically sort the coins then add them to accepted value for the current purchase.
The each denomination of coin takes a different path to either coin tubes for giving change when needed or coin drop if a valid coin.
while taking the different paths they trip a switch or other coin counting device.

Sorry the S+ itself is not capable of handling more than one denomination of a coin, unless you can crack the BV protocol and have the coin system act like a Bill validator.
IGT designed the S+ and S2000 to use only one type of coin or token at a time and not mix them.

A S+ quarter hopper can handle quarters, 0.984 inch, and 0.955 inch tokens no problem.
Now getting the coin comparator to take all three (standard CC-16) will be a chore once you try doing quarters.
no problem doing both token sizes unless you have the wrong counter weight installed.


I do not mix token sizes I came across a couple of the 0.955 inch tokens and tested them with a 0.984 inch token in the comparator.

I do not think you could wire the optic inputs in series either the optic boards have logic chips on them.
If it was an S2000 it might be possible but I don't think I would even try it.

That might be one main reason why I haven't tried it other than the fact I've never thought of it... :72-

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=7238.30 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=7238.30)
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=2044.45 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=2044.45)

Read them and tell me that it's not possible :89-

Gee...we built those freeplay things like 2 years ago...
I think mine is collecting dust on a shelf somewhere...  :5-
It's not really like what you were asking to do...
I thought you wanted to have a separate coin mech accept different coins into another box?

But if you instead of connect this "free play board" to a "free play button", connects it to a coin mech giving out NC pulses. That would work right??

Never tried it like that...
Let us know if it works?

I don't have a "free play board"  :30-

If your collecting dust, could I buy it from you?  :71-

Someone having a free play board to sell me ? :37-

you could theoretically use one of those free play boards to replace optics and if you can understand the code modify it so additional switches trigger additional code in the Microcontroller for the proper number of credtis
Example machine is a quarter denomination so the switch below the coin comparator in the door, triggers the optics inputs only one time (just like one coin passed throught them, remember the machine cant tell what the coin is.
The bottom comparator is configured for half dollar, so the switch below it triggers the optics just like 2 coins would going through optics one at a time.
If you did it with microcontroller that it would work, but you better have anti stringing and such in place for the coin comparators
that is one thing the optics in an S+ or S2000 can detect is some one trying to string a coin back through them.
A physical switch can't detect stringing

 

Hello ERSK3 and welcome to the forum

In the initial thread for my freeplay board it was suggested that it could be run in series with an existing coin mech but I never tried it. The processor board holds all the inputs high and the coin mech board / freeplay board pull them low with a transistor so it may be possible to run both in series.
To be honest the whole project kind of fizzled out as I never got round to developing it for anything else than the S+/PE+ platform and not everyone has the skill/parts and equipment to DIY and being a continent away made supplying built boards difficult. I have however found a nice little product on EBAY that will make the whole freeplay project a lot easier and am expecting delivery soon.

The code is very straigtforward and was written in a free demo version for a commercially available basic compiler for Microchip PIC devices. The only problem is that its limited to 50 lines of code but I think it should be possible to add desired functionality within these limits.

Ian