New Life Games Tech Forums

I just picked up one of these slots and it is the first time I have worked on one.  Here is what it does and does not do.   When it is plugged in the Tilt light comes on, the deposit coin is on, the 1st coin play is on, you can put a quarter in and the coins do go to the hopper.  1st one in there is a loud click on the inside any coin after that nothing happens they just fall into the hopper.  Handle is always locked. I found one blown fuse and replaced it.  Not sure where to start on this one. 

Thanks
Gary

Is there any numbers showing in the doors win meter? We're looking for an error codes. First of all check the condition of the power cord. They get torn up from where they come out of the machine. Then check all your circuit board plugs connections.

Gary

Weird thing just happened.  I open the door and released the handle, pulled it won 2 quarters, 1 came out and now it keeps blowing fuses.  Most of the time it is the 2nd one from the front.  Sounds like I have a short somewhere.  Also there is no numbers showing up in the win meter.  Work is done for tonight until I stock up on more fuses.

Gary

Best way to troubleshoot a short on these machines is to remove the reels, hopper and un-plug the door harness connectors.
Put in a good fuse and see if it blows. If so, power down and un-pulg MPU and I/O and check again.
Once you have it to where it does not blow the fuse with power on start plugging stuff back in one, by one. I usually start with the door harness one connector at a time until the fuse blows again. When it does that it the component to look at.

It's common for the door wire harness to short out on the door near the hinge area.
Good luck and keep us posted.

It is not blowing a fuse at this time.  I found a broken wire on the hopper.  Slot was taking coins, but the handle was still locked.  I got the reals to pull manually, got a winning combination, hopper started to pay out,  then slot went into a tilt situation.  Now I am unable to clear the tilt with the button.  When the hopper was running there was a nice green light show going on in the back.  Don't think that is normal, but I can not find any wires that look burnt.  One more thing, the little red light behind the hopper was on and i had to press the button to reset it. 

At this point I have a tilt that I can not clear.

Gary

The handle locked/not releasing problem may be the handle release solenoid and linkage is gummed up and needs to be lubed and freed up with WD-40.

What are your error codes in the display?

Is the fuse on the hopper burnt?

Gary.. If your machine is a Bally EM then the machine has timed out. There should be a flat piece of metal that runs under your hopper to the reset button. Push it in and it should clear the problem. The machine will time out if there are not enough coins in the hopper to complete the payout.. You might want to check back behind the hopper and timer for any loose coins. That could be where your short is too..

Gary

first thing!  you have a ELECTO-Mechanical  1090  Bally slot machine.  it will not give you error codes!  the red light that was on in the back of the machine is part of a timer mech., it is turned on the same time the hopper is turned on, if the hopper hasn't finished paying out the payout in the required time the timer will come on and remove all power from the machine, this was a safety feature put into the machine so the hopper would not pay out all the money if the coin counter circuit failed.

there should be three fuses mounted to the backwall, (some machines had four) the first one or two is the 120 vac line voltage, usually black and white wires, the next is the 50vac (orange wires) usually the coils,  and the next is 6.3vac- blue wires (general  illumination Lamps and lamps in general) .

the "green light show" is probably the payout relay switch mounted on the back of the hopper.( it had a big wire wound square resistor mounted to it) the green color is due to the relay contacts "arcing"

you should check the to see the condition of these contacts, if they continue to arc like that they will eventually burn up. check alignment and gap and make and break of these contacts, they should be cleaned as well.  some people say the carbon build up is good for the contacts, but if they are arcing like yours I would clean them. two schools of thought to cleaning,  1= burnishing tool, 2= paper soaked in isopropyl alcohol and placed between closed contacts and moved back and forth.

the fuse that is blowing will lead you to the problem area. if its the 50 vac fuse, its usually something to do with a coil , if its the 6.3, its something to do with the lamps, if its the 120, the flour. lamps timer, or the hopper motor.

Hope this helps

Jim   

it is the 50vac with the orange wires on it.  Sorry for the dumb question, but what do you mean coil.  I see a lot of relays in the slot, but not sure what you mean by coil?

Gary

I figured out what the coils are on another post.  there showed how to test using long wires and attaching to a yellow and orange wire.  I have to get some clips and make new cables.  Mine are not long enough. 

Gary

I tested the coils by attaching one lead to a yellow wire and one to an orange. The top coil engaged when the power was turned on, but the lower one with the large blue (whatever that is) did not.  So I would assume I have a bad coil.  Does anyone know where I can find one? 

It is a Bally G-40 120000

I have seen them on EBay, or you could contact Barry Fox at Foxsslots. He can be found on the home page under Sponcers. You could also do a Google search using Bally coil and the number. You might be able to buy it through a sight that has pinball parts. Some of those coils were used in both there slots and pins.
Gary

I don't think that coil is bad, that coil is fed by 115 vac.  Its called the delay relay unit  ( safety timer)  it consists of the following components: ASW-2659-55=DELAY RELAY,G-40-12000=COIL,E-105-132=RESISTOR 47 OHMS, 1 WATT, DIODE, IN2070/750MA,  BLUE THING IS A CAPACITOR,  30MFD/150VOLT.



JIM

Well that is good and bad news all at the same time.  :279-  Good news is I won't be spending money on something I don't need, bad news is I am back to square one on why the fuse continues to blow when the hopper kicks in.  Can I jumper the 150V that comes into the slot and test that coil just to make sure it is good?

Does the hopper motor run at all or just blow the fuse? You can test the hopper motor with jumper wires and 115v. Remove the hopper from the machine a nd bench test it. I have found them bound up due to lack of lubracation.

Gary

Hopper runs and kicks out a few coins then fuse blows.

before I offer any suggestions,  its the 50 vac fuse that is blowing,  and it only happens when the hopper is running?  what amp rating is the fuse?  I think it should be a 8 amp fuse.

the wire that was loose, did you find out where it was attached? 


Jim 

Have you manually tried turning the hopper to see if its binding. Release the brake on the motor with one hand and turn the hopper star. Should rotate easy. Just a thought.. Could have a grounded wire some where in the hopper or with the cabinet beau plug that the hopper connects too?
Gary

Thanks. I will take a look at that tonight.

hopper works great when connecting the motor to 115v.  nice and smooth, kicks out quarters perfect.  Is their an easy trick to tracing out a possible ground problem?

Tried something different. I removed all of the quarters from the hopper to see what would happen.  when I turned it on, it continued to try and pay out.  the hopper just continued to run and did not stop until the red light safety in the back went on.  press the reset hopper tried to pay out.  So I tossed 1 quarter into the hopper.  the second it hit the switch the fuse blew.  Quarter never made it out of the hopper, still stuck under the switch.  I see there is a screw missing from the switch, could that be the problem?

It could be.. That screw is to adj the switch.. See if you can find it in the hopper? I could be causing your short if its stuck in a relay. Lift the coin lever roller and watch the relay to see how it's working.  Take the hopper and turn it upside down and shake it to see it the screw fall out. Threads in the lever look shinny like it did have a screw in it. There should be a nut too that locks the screw in place.

Gary

I can't find any screws in the hopper.  i tried it again and exact same thing, once the coin hits the switch fuse blows.  I can see how it pushes down to cause the relays to make contact, but they look like they function correctly. 

Sounds like your coin out switches are shorting to case when a coin pushes down the roller.  Try putting a piece of tape under the bottom switch. Nothing should short to case.  Nothing. Ever.
The only thing to case should be your green ground wire coming in from the 120V plug.   All these circuits should be isolated from case.  Find my post on checking for shorts, that might help.  Will get back when I got time, very very busy right now.
Good diagnostics on your part BTW!!! Good pics too...!

Still unable to trace out a short in the hopper.  I did take a video of where I think the short is taking place, but still I can not figure out where the short is.

here is the video

http://youtu.be/OpUf63HW1hs (http://youtu.be/OpUf63HW1hs)

Gary

Gary,

would like to help solve your problem, Bally made too many machines, in my mind I'm still trying to figure out what type of machine you have. I'm thinking you have a Bally 1090 fruit machine, which was a EM (electro mechanical ) three coin multiplier.  most of the machines I worked on had the coin counting circuits separate from the hopper. The counting disc was located behind and to the right of the hopper. It has what appears to be a bunch of washers attached to a rod on the bottom of the unit. it also has two coils on it , one steps up the finger wipers and the other resets them to zero. usually the hopper switches you pictured  activate this counting mech. Try unplugging this mech and see if it still blows the fuse. Again I am assuming it is the 50 vac fuse that is blowing? 
Pictures of your machine ,the hopper, and overall placements of the component inside your machine would help immensely.   

Hope this helps

Jim

I will post pictures of the slot tonight.   thanks again.  Gary

Ok, let's see if I understand.
1. The pinwheel turns during a payout?
2. Everything is ok until a coin goes under the coin roller?
3. When coin passes coin roller then it blows fuse?

As soon as the coin hits the roller to activate the switch counting the coin the fuse goes.  Most times the coin does not come out.  It is still stuck under the roller.

I have another thread that has pictures and video.  Search 1090-18

Stick a coin under the roller so it holds the switches down, and then ohm out each one to see if they are shorting to case.
here's a link for checking switches.  http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=17603.0
I think you may have a switch leaf which is touching another switch when it is not supposed to.  Check your payout relay switch stack very carefully, sometimes a switch may be bend up or down too much, and touches something it shouldn't.
Keep at it....

Double checked the hopper and can not find a short to the case.  I did some more testing and found that if I connect my meter to the orange wire where the fuse continues to blow and touch the case with the other wire I show a reading?  Is that right?

I was asked to post a few more pictures of the slot to help determine the model of it

Gary     in your first picture, the unit in the back on the rightside of the machine, it has two plugs going to it, they are plugged in to the bracket to the left of it.  pay attention or mark one of the plugs so you get them plugged in the right way. remove the plugs, unscrew and remove from the machine,  right side fits into a flange, the other side is secured to the cabinet base with the screw.

examine the unit, look for coins in places where they shouldn't be. manually test the coils on the one side of the unit, the one on the top will step the wiper fingers and count up for each time pressed, the one on the bottom will reset the counter.

you can also test these coils with your jumpers.


Jim

Gary, nice work so far, good photos, always glad to see photos.
Anyway, the fact that you have contact between the orange wire and case shows you have a short.
first thing I'd do is unplug the (2) door plugs and test it again.  If the short goes away it's in your door.  Someone may have intentionally put in a short to prevent cheaters from getting to the machine.  They usually put it on to one side of the coin lockout coil, behind the coin acceptor.  If so, you will see an extension of the orange wire from the coil that is screwed into the case.  If so, remove the screw, and cut off the extension.
Yes, I'd say you for sure have a short.
Fun, huh?

Just an update for tonight.  I think it is in the reels.  If I unplug the large connector that goes up to the reels the short goes away.   Also,  I tried spinning the reels and while they are spinning there is not short, but when they stop it comes back.  It seems like when reel 2 stops the short comes back.  Tomorrow night I will see what i can find.

Look at your "C" stack of switches.  They are above and just behind the clock and fan assembly on the left side of your reel mech.  You may find that that large spring which is attached to the variator bar is touching as the reels index and the clock unwinds.  That will give a short with those symptoms. Seen that many times.
Good trouble shooting!!! +1.

Well I was able to trace down a short to the case.  it was in the reel assembly.  I attached to pictures.  Not sure the correct way to fix the problem, but I put a piece of tape on the switch so it would not make contact with the case.  Problem is I still have my issue.  Once a quarter this the exit switch from the hopper fuse goes.  Good news is I got the handle switch to work and now the lights for # of coins in work and I can see the switch moving in the back for the number of coins in.

Gary

Another thing I noticed.  Just below those three white wheels in the back there are 3 relays.  One of them is black and the plastic cover does come off.  Is there a way to test them?  Also, do those white number wheels ever move?  I have not seen them move at all and was wondering if there is a problem with that block of parts.  Is there a way to test it outside of the slot?  Can I jumper the wires to make the solenoids activate for testing.  I tested the hopper with a jumper from orange and yellow wires on the slot?

Thanks
Gary

Gary,
did you ever  take out and test the counter unit?   I believe that is what those switches activate.    those drums with the numbers on them are for multiplying  the coin count output.  depending on how many coins are played determines what drum is in play,  an example would be, to pay out 50 coins, the hopper switches would start counting the coins, that output is steered to the drum according to coins played, so for every fifth coin into the drum it would output one pulse to the actual counter, thereby getting more out of your counting disc.

what does you machine look like overall?  does it have a top box, is it a low boy,?    just trying to imagine what the machine looks like and what other components might come in to play.



Jim
     

It is a low boy.  I took the unit out last night and check for an grounds to the base with no luck.  I want to test the coils, but I am not sure how much voltage to apply.  I think I have 50v from the orange/yellow combination or is it the full 120V.  I did find a quarter stuck in there when I took it out, but that was not it. 

did you see the picture I posted where I put the tape to stop the ground short?  Is there a good way to fix that? 

Gary

the counter unit can be checked manually and electrically. the coil that has all the washers attached to it is the step up coil, everytime it pulses it will advance the wiper arms one space until the number of coins it should payout, then the wiper arm should be off the foil ring and onto a dead spot thereby stopping counting. the other coil on that unit is the reset coil, when the unit is being kicked off that coil is pulsed to reset the counter back to zero, so the counter is ready for the next payout.  you can move the shaft of the coil to start the action that would be done by applying voltage to the coil. so basically you could step up the wiper fingers to a certain count see if the wiper fingers fall off the ring at the right time and then reset the counter using the shaft on the reset coil.

you can use the 50 vac to test these coils.  both are 50vac coils, both should have a orange wire attached to one of the terminals.



Jim 

Thought I would share my findings so far.  the lower coil with the large blue capacitor will not engage, and while testing it the capacitor blew out.  So I have both parts on the way.  I should have them by Monday and will post my results once they are installed. 

I'm guessing a coil with a blue cap on it is your payout relay coil, which is a 120V coil.  I wouldn't jumper it, but that's me....  Also, check to make sure that if it is a polarized cap, that you install it in the right way. I don't remember if they are or not....
Also, in your picture (Short2) just to the left of your yellow handle are your C switches.  Just to the right you can see that big spring on the variator bar.  Push the variator with that big spring back and see if it contacts in any way your C switches, which will give you an intermittent short.
Also, the rods that push against your switches to close them are insulated.  If any of them are cracked, you can have a short.  I suggest putting some heat shrink over them, if you see any cracks or bare metal.
Good pics by the way, that is really helpful.

Well I had to stop working on the slot for awhile and now I am back at it.  I have attached a photo of the switches on the hopper were I can see the electrical arc.  so  I place a piece of paper between all of them and found it I block the bottom two and the hopper runs there is not a short.  the hopper does run now but times out because the slot is not counting them on the way out. 

I was able to trace the wire that comes off of the switch to the plug in the back of the slot and found that it is connected (somehow) to the large orange wire where the fuse continues to break.  Now I don't know if that is correct or not? 

If you look at the second photo where my red tester is.  that port does connect to the orange wire where the fuse is located.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Gary

Back working on this slot again.  I still have the short when the coins try to pay.  I don't have any drawings for the wiring so I have started my own by tracing them out.  Here is what I ran into when I traced the gray/black wire from the coin out switch.  Not sure what the proper name is for this part, but to me it looks like the coil is bad.  Is there a way to test this coil?  If I need to replace it does anyone have a part number for it.  I can not read any of the numbers off the coil.

Thanks

Please note my post of Feb 8 is WRONG.  I don't know why I thought that that coil is 120V, must have been a brain fart of some kind...sorry.  Oh well.
You can test your coil with a VOM, or just use two jumpers from your transformer to tickle it and see if it steps.  The discoloration does not mean it is a bad coil.  Run jumper from solid orange on the transformer to the orange on the coil.  Run other side from yellow on transformer to other side of coil.  If it kicks, it's good.

Again, sorry about calling the payout relay a 120V coil, it is not, it is 50V, and just goes to show my ignorance.  The hopper delay relay coil is, I believe 120V....

I checked to voltage from the transformer and it was 50V.  So, I hooked up the wires as stated and nothing moved.  Only left it plugged in for about 2 seconds.  Bad news was there was a small amount of smoke that came from somewhere, but I dont know where.  At this time I figure I need to replace that coil?  Any ideas where I can get one and do you know the part # on it?
Gary

Did you check the other coil on your board there to see if it worked also?  I usually clip one end of the jumper to the orange, and then just touch very briefly the other side.  If you hold it on there too long it may smoke it.  But a second or so shouldn't be too long. Did you check the plunger of the coil (it's a solenoid) to see if it moved freely or was stuck?  It's good to check your solenoids manually to see if they're stuck or not.
Don't know the number of the coil, sorry.  I'm thinking B25-925A, but that might be some other coil....

No I did not.  I was not sure if I could use the same test on it.  I will be testing both of them tonight.   I saw on ebay that foxslots has some relays posted.  I hope the he can help me out with the right part.