New Life Games Tech Forums

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Is there something bugging you about the posts? Have these helped you? Am I leaving out important information? Is there something you have a question about that isn't answered here? Please let me know.

I post on these forums:

NewLifeGames.net
Neo-Geo.com
KLOV.com
pcenginefx.com (currently down)
and a couple more obscure ones...

And have fixed games for those forum members plus for customers off of my website. Many of these game boards have very little repair documentation available - no schematics, no troubleshooting guides, etc - just like the slots that most of the members here like to play with. This is my way of paying back the gaming community - posting how boards have been repaired and by posting how-to guides along with hardware documentation.

This thread is for the members here and anybody that found these threads by searching Yahoo!, Google, etc... who have found them helpful. It's also for folks that want to tell me if I make a mistake. All I ask is that people don't tell me it stinks but rather why it stinks so it can be improved.

Thanks,

Raymond

WoW...The CoCO...I have one of the first (silver) units with cassette, single side 5" floppy drive (cost me hundreds at the time)...My favorite game was Dungons of Daggorth !!!

Mine is still working fine..although I did have to also take apart the keyboard for cleaning sticky keys...

BTW..I have the origional Technical Reference Manual for the Tandy 1000TL if someone ever needs it...and I'm sure I have it for the CoCo 1 but it might take me a while to dig that up

THANKS channelmaniac for sharing your knowledge and keeping this infomation a part of this forum!

That was the computer I started with back in the early 80s. It was also my first shot at hardware hacking and repair. It brings back LOTS of memories!

The day it was out of warranty I ordered a 64k memory upgrade kit for $59.95 + shipping and installed it myself. (I was in middle school!)

A few months later I was building a custom game cartridge and plugged it in with the power on. OOPS. Dead computer. I ordered a replacement 6809E CPU and my uncle replaced it. It was soldered in so he removed it and socketed it as I didn't have THAT level of soldering skills then. ;)

My uncle was one of the guys that helped to shape my life and love of electronics. He had a TV repair shop and showed me the finer arts of troubleshooting: Break down the circuitry into blocks and use your 5 senses. Breaking it down into blocks lets you narrow down where the problem will be. Using your 5 senses will allow you to notice things that could be the problem. These techniques work wonders when you don't have schematics. Master them and you'll be able to fix many different things. He was right.

I remeber my first lesson in this. I had a color TV that had no vertical output. It was nothing but a flat line on the screen. I had schematics but no idea were to start. I learned about the sections of a TV: tuner, power supply, IF, horizontal oscillator, horizontal output, vertical output, and the high voltage sections. In this case he said "Change this tube. Also, see this resistor? Check it. I bet you'll find it bad." He was right, it was charcoal. I replaced it and the tube and the set had a beautiful picture.

BTW...Did ya all know there is a Emulator out their that can be used to run CoCo games and software on your current computer???

Yup!

There are at least a couple of different ones including one written totally in Java. I used them to test some diagnostics software before deciding which version to put on an EPROM and build a cartridge from. It comes in handy when testing old hardware and chips.

OMG !!! ...  You mean the kit where you "piggyback " the memory chips !!!   I didn't wait for the warranty to run out...

Remember the POKE and PEEK commands...boy I was smart...hehe

Nope!

I had the last revision of CoCo1, the NC board. It was the one that didn't have a letter designation on the board.

It required the removal of 8 4116 chips, removal of 8 capacitors (snip snip), moving of 3 jumpers, and soldering together two pads next to the SAM chip before installing 8 4164 chips.

Wasn't too bad at all.

Sad thing was, less than 3 years later Radio Shack was selling sets of 8 4164 DRAM ICs for less than $10 on one of their special purchase deals.

I miss those deals. They had a keyboard that was the same size/shape of the CoCo's but had real keys on it. It also had that flat plastic ribbon cable just like my NC revision CoCo1 had. I bought it. It fit and worked great! It had 2 function keys just like the CoCo 3 later came out with. My guess is that it was a keyboard they decided to not use on the CoCo 2. I loved having a better keyboard. :D

Great!!!    :3- :3- :3- :3- :3- :3-

I like modifications a lot (as soon as they work same or better than original of course  :25-   :72-)

I see myself posting in this topic in the future  :89-

Question:  can any kind of mod be posted here??? just related to slots??? just related to electronics??? 

Cheers ;)

Actually, there's a whole forum subsection that anyone can post in for any topic - http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?board=76.0

But nobody is actively using it yet... :(

Perhaps you could kick start it?

Yeah for sure!!!  I'll give it a try cause i have some time now...

I'll search for some contents in my files  :71-

okay,
now....do you solder 1 resistor (rated at 150ohms) onto EACH  LEDs or do you only use 1 resistor (rated at 150ohms) for the whole string of LEDs?
I'm installing LEDs in a topper.
I need to use 50 LEDs to complete it.
I'm stringing the LEDs in a series configuration.
I am using household current (U.S.of A.)

Also,which leg of each LED does the resistor get soldered to?
The side that has the "bowl" or the other smaller side of the LED?
Or do I only use 1 total resistor for the entire topper string?

I don't know what these 5mm white LEDs need for power.
The only thing I know is that they emit bright white light using clear glass and the light isn't diffused (confused?) :72-

I am.... :5-

Anyways, everytime I turn the power on....POOF! smoke escapes...
I end up checking every bloody bulb and resoldering the burnt out ones.
But for a brief second man....it is bright!

All of the LEDs go in parallel. Then you add up the current needed to drive a group of them.

Why only a group? They'll all have slightly different resistances which means slightly different current draw and brightness. Doing them in small groups is better for that.

Take 10 of them for example... at 2.1v and 20ma each. That's 200ma total current draw off of, say a 12v power supply.

12 -2.1 / .2
or
9.9/.2 = 49.5 or 50 ohms. You could take 2 100 ohm resistors and put them in parallel for 50 ohms.

BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

You'll need to also calculate the heat dissapation for dropping 9.9 volts across the resistors. If you use resistors that are too small they'll burn up. Those forumlas I don't have off the top of my head. I'd have to go look that part up. ;)

RJ

Are LEDs not normally 1.5v - so would you not string 8 of them in series and run them off of 12V ?
Alternatively if you then had 40 of these would you not then put 5 strings of 8 in parallel ?

problem is: I don't know if these LEDs are 1.5V...there's no writing on them at all. :103-
So, it's a crapshoot everytime I turn the power on...most times some LEDs go poof! :37-
Then I gotta start all over again. :8-

I actually have the same problem with xmas lights...you cant tell the difference between a 3.5V, a 6V or a 12V
bulb. You look at them and there's no writing on them either.
If you stick a couple of 3.5V replacement bulbs in a 12V string of say 150 bulbs....they get way too bright, hot and blow.

I'm becoming a master of blowing fuses and or xmas bulbs and LEDs???

If your doing a lot of this kind of work I might suggest you get yourself either a fancy power supply that has a knob on it. That way you can start at 0 and vary your voltage upwards. A 12v bulb will just barely glow with 6v.
If you do a lesser amount you can probably pick up one of the voltage selectable wall warts from Radio Shack for like 12 bucks. It will do 3v, 6v, 9v, 12v by using a slide switch. Might save you some aggravation (and bulbs).

sounds good . Thanks Jay...I'm going shopping! :72-

The problem of putting a string of 8 in series is that they still would pull too much current. You have to limit the current or you'll pop 'em.

This is a good one ....  :89- :89-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250299277978 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250299277978)

 :72-          $289.95 plus shipping  ....whew! For that price....it better be! lol thanks Joey.!

Let's say I use it as a yardstick for what I can afford....

 :97- :97- :97- Sorry about that I forget some times that this is just a hobby for some and 289.95 is kind of out of the ball park for just tinkering around.

I guess it's to many years of working in the casinos with unlimited budgets...  :71- :71-

This is a good one at a good price http://cgi.ebay.com/BK-1630-Power-supply-0-32VDC-0-3A-regulated-with-Meters_W0QQitemZ180321381745 (http://cgi.ebay.com/BK-1630-Power-supply-0-32VDC-0-3A-regulated-with-Meters_W0QQitemZ180321381745)

(http://i6.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/0e/64/9b36_2.JPG)

 

Thanks Joey....lol By the way, this the beautiful topper I'm working on....I finally got it to light up!
My workdesk is a little cluttered up...lol

Click on photo to enlarge it!

RJ,

Help me here..... I think I need a Electronics 102 class (subtitled: How to Keep the smoke in)

I thought Current was drawn not pushed ?
I can see if you put a LED inline with a existing circuit it would be subject to the drawn load but if it was the only thing on the circuit how is it possible for it to draw too much unless the voltage is more than the device can handle ?

Nice looking topper.

Thanks Jay! (I wish it were mine though ...lol....I'm fixing it for a member)
It has a yellow/orange star too...I'm working on that at the moment!
Also has a blue column and it tops off with a two stage candle light.

Thanks for posting these repair logs. I've recently dug my old colecovision out of storage.  I powered it up and it worked, but had some issues.  Your repair logs helped me get the Coleco working again and I think it is running even better thanks to better memory and a new bios.  Thanks again for posting these repair logs.

Lucky kid!  ...or is that how you're getting reimbursed for allowance money you hand out to him?   :97-

HAHAHAHA

No, he has the key to his crane game. He gets to pay me back $50 for the crane and the cost of the new locks I put in it.

I'm not charging him for the coin mechs or labor.

He's already paid me back $14 towards the $50. He's learning about debt, paying debt, and how to maximize his monetary income. He gets $3 a day for getting zero Xs on his behavior sheet. (He's HFA - High Functioning Autistic) so he's been EXTRA good in school to take that money and pay down on his crane.

It's his best behavior in a while. ;)

RJ

VERY NICE WORK RJ !!! :3-

Thanks!

The kid's smart as a whip, just not very good at interpersonal skills. He tends to think he's equals with people and still has to learn authority concepts. ;)

He has his own savings account to save for a car, likes to buy & sell things with me at a local flea market for extra money, is learning how to haggle on price for things at flea markets, and can read jewelry hallmarks pretty well. One of the things I like to do is go to area thrift stores and buy the gold/silver items they have in their cheap jewelry section. I showed him how to read those and he's got a collection of gold/silver on his own.

He's a wheeler/dealer like me. :D hahahahaha!

Not bad for 10 years old, huh?

Dayum!...I had the impression he was an older teenager.
Sounds like you've done an outstanding job working with him to get him to this point.
At this rate you'd better watch out, he'll take over the whole shebang by 16!...LOL
Some time soon he WILL be equals but at 10yrs old still a whole lot of lessons to be learned.
As far as learning authority concepts, its funny because I'm sure my District Managers and
Vice Presidents think the SAME ABOUT ME!!!  :25- :30- :97- :97- :97- 
<<<I've just got that problem where if it don't make sense (stupid), I tell them my thoughts about it :79- >>>

Once again, GREAT WORK RJ....keep it up! :3-

channelmaniac, I like to read your repair notes here being that I have a few of the old classics
missile command,space invaders,nintendo multi game upright,and also a mame machine.
Right now between my slot projects I have a sit down pole positon 2 with some video problems more like double image on the screen
but I think if I reseat some of the proms it might clear up anyway I wonder if you ever might buy some of the cheap mother boards on ebay
and fix them for resell as these classic game boards fetch over $100 working as I read some of your fixes it must take alot of time to hunt down
these problems....rock on brother

Thanks for the props!

You'll want to check the socketed chips first for corroded legs or poor connections. It sounds like one of the address lines isn't making good contact.

I have a partial Pole Position wiring harness here. I just need to buy some JAMMA fingerboards to adapt the harness to my testbed to start repairing Pole Position boards. I'm always willing to tackle new projects as long as I can get it hooked into my testbed.

I've been learning older Konami games (Track & Field and Hyper Sports) along with other rare games but I don't always have adapters. Right now I have adapters for Konami, Phoenix, Galaxian, Pac, Jr., & Ms. Pac Man, Nintendo (DK/Jr/3/Popeye), Galaga, and Sega System 16.

Buying broken and flipping repaired boards is something I've done with Pac, Galaga, Sega System 16, and Neo Geo boards. I haven't tried other classics yet. I need to put an order in with mikesarcade.com for some more JAMMA adapters like Dig Dug and Centipede. ;)

RJ

Any guide to what the LEDs mean on the board?  I'm trying to diagnose this n/w board I have.

No, sorry.

Good Tips,

Been there, Done similar!

Nice "manicure" for a previously dead board!  :3- :3-

Thanks for sharing all of your tips! K+  :88-

CaptainHappy :95-

Thanks Cap'n!

When the guy sent me pictures I thought.... Yeah, I can fix that. I told him it wouldn't be pretty but it really turned out to be much better looking than I expected.

I thought it would be a perfect board to show off a neat repair technique and help others too. :D

Am I losing it and posting in the wrong spot, or did the picture and tips disappear???

CH :5- :95-

You're losing it. ;)

I moved your post to the Feedback Thread. :D

 :5- :5- :5- :72- :72- :72- :5- :5- :5-

CH :95-

I recently repaired 3 C64 computer boards for a customer. Here's what he posted on his web site:

http://robert.hurst-ri.us/2009/09/05/arcadecomponentscom/ (http://robert.hurst-ri.us/2009/09/05/arcadecomponentscom/)

 :88-

Thanks!

All of us already knew that you are the best! :3- He was lucky to find you. Great job channelmaniac :89-

We are lucky to have such a dedicated member among us.  Another K+

Ron

The feedback was well deserved. I'm sure we all agree with it and as said previously it's an honour to have such a skilled tecnician with us.  K+

Thanks,
Wayne

NICE work as usual channelmaniac!    :3- :3- :3-
You continue to rock!  :131- :131- :131-

WOW!

Thanks for the kind words guys!

 :131-

Lot,s of times errors can be clear by holding in 2 red buttoms behind coin box,    having a xl with a hard drive is a very good thing  .We had 50 on route we had in  nj   ,We  bought 1 in w/s nc auction  2007.5 force we love it and grand kids perfer that over the wiii game

Thanks!

I see a harness in there but no buttons. I'm wondering if someone swiped them when they took the coin box.

Of course, I'm wondering how you found out that particular 74LS14 component was "bad"? :129-
Was it like burned/ melted , scorched,  blown up?  :98- :128-

Well... on that particular game, the inputs to the gun weren't working right and the data line from the gun went right to the 74LS14 with no input protection against static electricity - no caps, no resistors, so the chip was the only path. It made sense to change out that chip first. ;)

Raymond

Thank you for the excellent reply on how you worked that out.  :3-
It does make a lot of trouble shooting sense.

Hi,just joined to say thanks for the skilled repair info :131-
I fixed my first board (shinobi system 16a bootleg) using your post on page 1 (Troubleshooting CPS 1 audio problems). I've read here or somewhere these Cps1 boards are based on the sega system 16 hardware,so i thought i'd follow your advice,even though there not the same boards :89-

I carefully ran thru your guidelines,everything kinda checked out to my unskilled eyes. Then i got to the YM2151,tested the IRQ,RD,WR with my logic probe,they were stuck high,so i cut out the on board Z80A,solder suckered the holes,installed a 40 pin socket,and stuck my newly acquired sharp Z80A cpu in,fired it up and to my surprise it worked  :95-

Thanks for the post!

I'm glad these logs helped you fix your system :D

There's a huge sense of satisfaction in bringing a dead system back to life!

If that Z80A dies again, replace it with a Z80B - The B version is what should be used in the System 16 boards as they run pretty fast.

Raymond

k+ Raymond.  your karma level should be way higher,  you deserve it.

thanks,
Wayne

:205-
K+ to everyone here! This is a perfect example of what NLG is all about!

CaptainHappy :95-
:nlg- ADMIN

Good job Ray!  :3- :3-

I can't give you another karma because I gave both you and shagster a K+ when I moved shagster's post into this thread earlier. :5- :96-

Stat :31-

K+ Channel! Great job!  :3-

Thanks,i'll check that out,if i have any problems with this one.I still got three spare,got'em from ebay cause they were cheap and new.I was wondering about that at the time i ordered the Z80A,but i thought maybe thats why they used a Z80A in place of the Z80.I dont wanna ruin these,so i'll deff replace it at some stage.Also replaced a couple of caps on it too,there was a broken resistor on the top right of the board,which maybe took out the cap right next to it,dunno! It checked out bad on my blue esr meter anyway.The resistor was the cause of a few graphics glitches,but they cleared right up when replaced.Cheers again man,that was the clearest and most concise info i could find,great for us noobs ; )
Found some info about op amps,but that just didn't check out.Great resource ; ) 

The resistor probably didn't cause any issues with the cap. Old caps dry up and their ESR rating goes up.

The funny thing is that many caps that test bad on an ESR meter will show right on a capacitance meter. It goes to show that you can't just rely on a cap meter when working on monitors, boards, power supplies, etc... places where a bad cap will cause strange issues. If the ESR reading is off, replace the cap.

You did it by the book there with your ESR meter! Most people don't even have one but it's indispensable for working on boards. I bought the older model kit from Anatek and have used it a lot over the years. I'm cheap so I couldn't see myself spending 150+ on an ESR meter when the $80 kit would work just as well for my needs.

Oh, and one other thing you should look at when troubleshooting audio issues on a Sega System 16 type board... They use these funny looking small plastic cased rectangular crystals on the board for the D/A playback chip. They are typically orange or blue in color and are easy to break off the board. If you get a board that is missing some sounds such as the speech or digitized sound effects look to see if that clock crystal is broken off the board.

RJ

I know what you mean,im cheap too :31-.I got the blue esr meter in kit form on ebay,from a guy in the uk.Cost me 70 euros plus postage,didn't think that was too bad.

Got another board with sound problems,it has in game sound effects but no music.But i think thats related to the op amps.Kinda fudged that one up a bit,trying to take off a part that looked dodgy.Soldering iron didn't get hot enough and i pulled the via out of its hole with the part,trying to save it,should of just cut it out in hindsight.So i gotta somehow fix the via,then get to the op amp.When i pulled the via,i think it pulled about a mil or two all around of the trace inside the hole,so i think i need to widen the hole to get at the trace inside now :25- Wouldn't mind but i bought the board working,played it a couple of times and the music just fizzled out one day.Dunno about fixing other boards just yet,this ones knocked me back a bit.But i'll get to it some time :89- Then later i'll prob need to pick up a eeprom programmer,and a scope and learn how to use them first :25-

Before the scope, I'd recommend a logic probe with audio capabilities. That way you can look at the signals coming out of the audio chips to make sure they are there before going into the op-amps. The audio capabilities lets you "hear" (albeit in a 2 tone hi/low distorted logic probe sound) the outputs.

If not that, then an audio probe. Those will be much cheaper than a scope.

It's easy to repair the traces since the only things on the inner layers of that board are power and ground. Pick up a small spool of 30ga Kynar wire wrap wire and a small bottle of non-metallic green nail polish. Use the wire to bridge the missing trace and use the polish to tack it down to stay.

RJ

I have a Capanalyzer 88A which works great.

Thanks,
Wayne

I have the older version of this:

http://www.anatekcorp.com/blueesr.htm (http://www.anatekcorp.com/blueesr.htm)

Hi RJ,
   That one looks pretty good and cheap too.

another k+ for you...
Thanks,
Wayne

hELLO


this post is for channelmaniac  , i read lot post from him , don't know if it's the good place for ask too ..anyway


i have mv1fsz board and  my player one has the start button stay on 1 position ( not 0 ) so board not working

i don't know which IC is controlling the command buttons or pin 17 ( start 1 and 2) 
if someone could tell me than after i will removed and change this IC ...


thanks so much
johann

Hi Johann,

Follow those traces from the edge connector through some protection devices (SIP packaged devices) to pins 69 and 71 of the NEO-C1 chip.

Somewhere you'll find a bad trace, protection device, or a blown C1 chip.

RJ

Hi channelmaniac

ok ok thanks , i will try to do what you told me ....but not sure i wil  find where are the pins 69 pin71 of the neo C1 chip ;-(
i hope i will find out tomorrow when i will check what you told me today ;-0

thanks for your personal answer too channel maniac

don't you think it wil be good to show for everybody a picture of one board and show what exactly each IC is doing for the board ?
for exemple YM for the sound ...IC7425 control the 6 buttons ..etc
      Cause i read so much your post and sometimes iam losing with all you tell and some IC i don't know for what they are doing
i have around 20 boards ( most are F1SZS now and i tryed to repair , before i payed for that but bad work and very expensive so i decide to ''try '' to resolve alone so iam a rookie and not so easy too

thanks for all
johann

hard to understand why anyone would put $$$ in old neo geo board when you  can buy a 1 slot  new board for around 100 bucks  and buy a game cartage with 100 games for same cost

Because a typical board repair runs between $45 to $55 plus shipping... and with the repair you know what you are getting.

Used Neo Geo boards may have bad caps in the audio section or leaking batteries just the same as ones that are being repaired. A repair service brings the board up to being fully functional. Additionally folks may want to keep the 2, 4, or 6 slot board in the cabinet as that is what it was designed for and what the marquee is for.

Some of the Neo Geo cabinets also have memory card slots and headphone jacks on the front which will be empty if you replace the board with a simple 1 slot - especially a 1 slot board with no support for an external memory card/headphone board that is used on a 4 or 6 slot cabinet.

I suppose I could state the same thing about some slot games. :) hehehehehe!

Sadly, we did not design in good buffering for the memory slot connector so that is always one to watch for in a watchdog condition as the address and memory busses go there pronto.

It's interesting that a standard memory card can be used... and addressed from the main system address and data busses. ;)

wow, those do not sound like easy fixes at all, with the exception of maybe the 2 player not working.  Sounds like you are very talented at what you do!  I sent ya a PM on the Neo Geo forums for some help on Psikyo board I'm working on fixing with BustedStr8 right now :)

Thanks,

Some of them can be a real pain to fix because of poor handling/storage. You'd be shocked at some of the boards sent in for repairs.

- channelmaniac - Sent you a PM and a Message on your contact us section of your site.

Looking forward to working with you on Two Neo-Geo MVS 4 slot Repairs.

Message me back when you get a second..


THANKS!  :95-

Hi Gary,

I PM'ed you back. The day job has had me out on the Left Coast last week and the Right Coast this week.

Raymond

I just wanted to say thank you for putting up your Neo Geo repair logs.  Had I not gone through them, I would have been pulling hairs chasing a non-existent "Watchdog" issue.

I repaired another bad MV4F top board I acquired that had trace damage due to improper shipping precautions (seems to be a common problem with the MVS boards I have...).  The bottom board however rapidly clicked through the speakers when powered up and the screen display would flicker in unison.

I started probing the AS745 chips and after not finding anything conclusive, I re-read the repair logs and found an issue you previously encountered which had the exact same symptoms.  I then thought to hit the Player 1 button and saw that the board wasn't reseting at all.

As I was checking things out in the audio section just as you had, I noticed that the 12V capacitor was "ballooned".  I really don't know why, but I touched the capacitor and gave myself a 1st degree burn on my fingertip just to confirm what was plainly obvious at this point...  For lack of parts on hand, I swapped an existing capacitor from an audio channel with the 12V capacitor and everything minus the right audio channel came up fine.

Since I started pulling capacitors off the board, I figured I'd order a cap kit and do the rest of the audio caps as well.

Again, thank you very much!  Now I just need to figure out what I'm going to do with two extra mainboards...

The best and the cheap way WD 40  never fails

Thanks!

OK I'll go along that WD 40 will clean a board, now what do you use to clean the WD 40 from the board ?    WD 40 being a oil base product and dirt/dust tend to stick to a oily/ greasy serface what have you gained ??

At least the board wont squeak  :96-

NO, After the WD40 you put it in the dishwasher.
 :290- :290- :290- :290- :290- :290- :107- :18- :hide1-

You can use a simple, safe degreaser that won't eat plastics or take painted letters off of chips.

WD40 won't eat plastics like Goof Off does. Goof Off also takes letters off of some chips.

Just been reading some of Channelmaniacs repair logs, some really excellent information for people wanting to repair their games etc :3-

Thanks!

I share information to try and help others. :D

 :244-  Thank you for maintaining this thread.  C64 was my first computer.  Now that I know I can get help with one, I might try to hunt one down and reminisce my teenage summers glued to the computer. :71-  Inspired by Zork, I actually wrote my own text adventure game around age 12. :5-

Thanks!

I try to share my knowledge on various systems. On the C64, I copied the code for the PLA chip and have it on my site freely available for download. That code has been incorporated into MESS to improve emulation. Of course, I sell freshly programmed NOS PLA chips on my site, but the code is there for anyone to use to program their own PLA.

I love these older systems! There's just something about them that brings back a lot of memories of being a kid in the 80s. :)