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**Video Slots** Gaming machines => IGT PE and PE Plus Poker Games. => Topic started by: Mikalnm on March 30, 2009, 06:51:05 AM



Title: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on March 30, 2009, 06:51:05 AM
Here we go again!  Recently I attempted to make my own harness to connect a Keno Interface board to my PE Plus Upright with IBA.  Basically, I had at least one of the wires wrong and blew a fuse on my machine.  If anyone has this harness (60993600 I think), I would like to buy it!!.   But, with your help, I may be able to wire it correctly this time.  So this is what I have.  I know that the harness connects to J207 on my machine.  It uses 4 of the 6 positions in the molex connector.  I am assuming that this is correct??  Red/Black wire is +VB, Red/Orange is Light Pen +, Red/Yellow is SW 20 (whatever that means) and the Green wire is Light Pen - Ground.  So, what order do they go on the interface board Below?  For simplicity sake since I am apparently brain dead, lets go 1 to 4 starting on the left.  Thanks in advance for any help.
Michael :103-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on March 30, 2009, 02:22:28 PM
I have collected all of the parts and this is on my list of things to do for my PE+ as well....

When you get this right please document it for others......


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on April 03, 2009, 08:44:24 AM
Hello All, Not much action on this post so far??  Any advice will help.  So I got out my CHEESEY Multimeter and figured out that Position 3 on the interface board is the ground.  So, any ideas for 1. 2. and 4.? Thanks Again.
Michael


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: knagl on April 03, 2009, 08:34:02 PM
A friend of mine has a shop with a lot of random parts.  Next time I'm there I'll ask him if he has the interface board or any information about it.  :71-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on April 04, 2009, 10:20:11 PM
A friend of mine has a shop with a lot of random parts.  Next time I'm there I'll ask him if he has the interface board or any information about it.  :71-
Thank You


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Jim on April 19, 2009, 10:55:37 PM
Michael   went thru some of by books and came up with the following, this is from a slant top manual, it should be the same, the plug number may be different but the inputs should be the same.E.G.  earlier posts indicate P-207 on the upright mother board. On this the plug is P-197, still a six pin plug with only four being used and the same ones you described.

J-197  6 pin molex
Pin 1   +VB     goes to Pin 2  input to pen amplifier
Pin 2   Light Pen +     goes to Pin 1 input to pen amp.
Pin 3   Light Pen SW 20   goes to Pin 4  input to pen amp.
Pin 4   Light Pen  --     goes to Pin 3  input to pen  amp.
Pin 5   N/C
Pin 6   N/C

Hope this helps     Jim


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on April 20, 2009, 02:08:03 AM
I think there are too many threads of the same stuff going on. I documented the harness yesterday.

Here is the other thread.
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=2499.msg22070#msg22070 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=2499.msg22070#msg22070)



Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Jim on April 20, 2009, 03:27:08 PM
Jay     sorry for the duplication     After looking at your post and comparing it to mine, there is difference , or I think there is   :5-   the outputs from the connector don't  match up pin for pin  , as they go into the pen amplifier board. According to the schematic layout , the pins don't go  + 1 2 3 4 -, they go  2  4 3 1  ????  Are my eyes crossed from looking at this too long, or can't I see the forest for the trees???   :99-


Jim 


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on April 20, 2009, 04:12:18 PM
No they are not straight through...

I was not sure what order the pins were actually defined so I simply
labled them like the following

SLOT:

1 2 3
x x 4
In this manner.

S     C
1 --- 1
2 --- 4
3 --- 3
4 --- 2

On the contoller end I used the + (on the left) as number 1, and then 2,3,4....

Your scematic above lables the pins in a different fashion .....

I will post a picture of the harness tonight.



Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on April 21, 2009, 08:54:23 AM
Hello All,  This is how I have mine wired now.  It doesn't work.  I do get an intermittent change from 0 to 1 during the self test input test, but the pen will not select any numbers.  The pen and/or pen amp board could be defective (E-Bay Purchases).  Or, most likely, I still have something wrong.  Looking at my primitive diagram, can anyone see where I went wrong.  Many Thanks to ALL!!


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Jim on April 21, 2009, 11:32:35 AM
If you would follow the diagram I posted you would probably get it to work,hopefully  its not toast from crossing wires!!!  As Jay stated these double posts are confusing!!!!

Listen, molex plugs are labled, hard to see, need a magnifying glass to see, but they are labled.  schematic wiring is the same as the resistor color code,  in our case e.g.  20 -- 22, means    red/ black   22 gauge wire,    23---22  means  red/orange   22  gauge wire,  24 -- 22  means red/yellow  22gauge wire 55 --22  means solid green -- 22gauge wire.

Molex Plug                   Light Pen Amplifier
Pin 1     red/black          Pin 2   +vb
Pin 2     red/orange       Pin  1  +LP
Pin 3     red/yellow        Pin  4  SW 20
Pin 4     Green              Pin  3  -- LP

As you found and stated pin 3(on the light amp) was a ground .

Hope you get it working, hope this helps

Jim


                          


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on April 21, 2009, 08:56:52 PM
Sorry about the two posts.  I started the other in the classified section as a Want To Buy a Harness.  I did not know this would be confusing. 
OK, I have purchased an IGT Keno Pen Harness.   One Last question.  Two of the positions (3 Red/Black and 4 Green) have and an extra wire with molex pins.  Where do the wires need to go? Any Ideas?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on April 21, 2009, 09:00:26 PM
The gnd can probably be chasis grounded.
I have the factory harness (will post a pic tonight) and it only has the 4 wires between the two connectors.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on April 22, 2009, 05:11:28 AM
Here is the Harness in Pictorial....


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on April 22, 2009, 05:12:07 AM
More


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on April 22, 2009, 05:13:10 AM
last one


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on April 24, 2009, 01:27:01 AM
Thanks for all the help!  I think I have everything wired correctly now, but I still can not select numbers.  Perhaps I have a faulty Light Pen?  How can I test the Light Pen?   Besides installing the EPROMS, Keno Pen, and Interface Board,  is there anything else that is needed for this game conversion?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Jim on April 24, 2009, 01:30:51 AM
Its not necessary, but most keno games have a erase feature,just in case you make a mistake when you select your numbers.

Jim


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on April 24, 2009, 01:37:48 AM
If you open your door and press the self test button there is a light pen input test.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on April 24, 2009, 11:18:17 PM
Yes, there is a lightpen test.  However, It only tests the switch (which does work).  Is there a way to check the optic function of the pen?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on April 25, 2009, 02:02:15 AM
I have not hooked mine up yet. I am thinking a flashlight might change a 0 to 1 much like a door optic does when you intermittently hit it with a beam of light.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: stayouttadabunker on April 25, 2009, 03:10:37 AM
I wonder if you viewed the end of the pen with a video camera, would you see it lit or flashing then?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: StatFreak on April 25, 2009, 03:34:12 AM
I wonder if you viewed the end of the pen with a video camera, would you see it lit or flashing then?

No, probably not. You are making a very common incorrect assumption: that the pen does something to the screen.

The pen is passive -- the screen does something to the pen! Unless they designed the PE+ differently from other light pen devices that I've worked with, the way that it works is that the computer calculates where the pen is pointing by keeping track of where the photon beam is in its scan of painting the monitor at the instant that the beam affects the pen.


I don't own one of these machines, but it seems odd that they wouldn't have a test for the pen itself.  :103- It would be an INPUT test, though, not an output test.
Just thinking out loud, they might have an alignment procedure. That might be another avenue to try.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: stayouttadabunker on April 25, 2009, 04:29:04 AM
That's pretty neat....you learn something new everyday! :89-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on April 25, 2009, 05:28:05 AM
In Mame you can hook up arcade Guns and play games like house of the dead and I am sure most of my generation will remember Gunmoke.
If you use a LCD screen they don't produce the scanlines necessary to operate the gun.
Same technology as the light pen.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on April 29, 2009, 12:43:07 AM
Hello All.  Has anyone ever successfully converted an IGT PE Plus Upright from Multi Poker to Keno?  Or is this a myth? I still can not get the light pen to select numbers.    Does the Super Board require any jumper changes?   :103- :99-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on April 30, 2009, 03:20:12 AM
Hello All,
Still no luck with my Keno conversion.  Does anyone know if any jumper changes are required?  There is an open socket on my board U21.  Anything needed here?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on April 30, 2009, 03:22:54 AM
Keno Game Stuff


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on April 30, 2009, 03:24:33 AM
More Keno Shots


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on May 01, 2009, 04:08:50 AM
Ok - I just tried to get Keno running on my PE+ upright and NO GO.....

I have 3 light pens, 3 interface boards.
The Keno game &  board I have been playing with came out of a working Slant Keno with one of the light pens and a factory harness.
This would lead me to believe that all the necessary jumpers, switches etc on the MPU board ott to be correct.

I tried various light sources to get the 0/1 indicator to go to a 1 with the light pen and this has been to no-avail.
I can't believe that all three sets are bad.

There is only 1 connector open on my wiring block and the Keno pen harness mates to that just perfectly and only 1 way.

My theorys thus far are that I am using the wrong spot on my system but for the life of me i don't see another that would look like ti fits.
There is a jumper or something else missing on my upright that would be configured on the standalone version of keno.

Thoughts ?



Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on May 01, 2009, 04:28:33 AM
Came across this document......

I don't like the opening note that says before attempting to retrofit please contact IGT. Makes you go Hmmm....

And where is this elusive Section 2 they speak of....



Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on May 01, 2009, 05:10:21 AM
From the slant top manual, Trouble Shooting.

Issue: Light Pen will not mark spots.
Solutions
1. Clean the light pen.
2. Replace the interface board.
3. Replace the light pen.
4. Check related wiring & connectors.
5. Adjust the master gain on the lower
monitor. If gain is already at max:
replace the monitor.
6. Replace the processor board.
7. Replace the mother board.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: StatFreak on May 01, 2009, 05:16:35 AM
From the slant top manual, Trouble Shooting.

Issue: Light Pen will not mark spots.
Solutions
1. Clean the light pen.
2. Replace the interface board.
3. Replace the light pen.
4. Check related wiring & connectors.
5. Adjust the master gain on the lower
monitor. If gain is already at max:
replace the monitor.
6. Replace the processor board.
7. Replace the mother board.


Wow! What's 8?  Replace the entire machine with a Game King?  :7-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on May 01, 2009, 05:21:37 AM
Welll I am getting interested in #8. because you have two people with multiple parts not able to get this thing to recognise the spots. I have not cranked the gain on  my monitor but its not dull either. I am going to give this some soak time. I am still bothered by the Retrofit comment from that earlier attachment. Sounds like there might be something missing.



Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on May 01, 2009, 09:01:28 AM
Jay, Thanks for all of the info.  I was thinking of taking all of this keno crap I purchased (3 light pens, 4 interface boards, 2 sets of software, 1 dedicated keno main board, 1 complete wiring harness) and dumping it on EBay for nothing just to get it out of my house.  This deal has been driving me nutty.  Please keep me posted if you find out what step we are missing.
Thanks Michael


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: stayouttadabunker on May 01, 2009, 12:31:45 PM
Could it possible to add a properly sized touchscreen glass sheet to your Keno's instead of using the light pens?
I don't have a keno game, but I was just wondering if the keno's were at all compatible to the newer touch screen technology at all.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: rickhunter on May 01, 2009, 01:30:21 PM
The PE+ platform never incorporated touchscreens, so there's no software available to drive the touchscreens. 


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Jim on May 02, 2009, 12:44:27 AM
We may have found the missing link, I think if you put a 6N137 in U-21 that hopefully will get it going!

Jim


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on May 02, 2009, 03:36:49 PM
Jim,

I just checked my Keno Board and indeed U21 is indeed empty.
Your scans/posts of the schematics do seem to point towards this as being the missing link.
Awsome Find !

What still perplexes me is that the superboard that my game set is in came out of a Keno enabled machine.
None the less I will try and get a 6N137 and give this a go.

K++ for the research


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on May 02, 2009, 05:38:30 PM
Here is a data sheet on that chip.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on May 03, 2009, 01:43:33 AM
Hello All, I put the 6n137 in socket u21 and I still can NOT select numbers.  I thought Jim was on to something and hopefully it will work for Jay, but still no go here.  Does anyone have any other ideas?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on May 03, 2009, 05:15:26 PM
Active Components is the only place in my town that was open on Saturday that sold chips. They were out.
I am gone for a month so I won't be able to play further until I am back.
Sorry.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on May 09, 2009, 06:44:56 AM
Hello All.  When I first purchased my PE + machine, I was searching around for information and ended up in a virtual PE Plus world.  This place was a site that discussed machine emulation.  I actually learned valuable info on how to reset my machine after game change and some other stuff.  My question is:  Can these folks that emulate PE Plus Games on their home PCs perhaps figure out what steps are necessary to complete my conversion to Keno?  I mean if there are any jumpers, switches, or other changes needed, these folks that emulate these games should know.  Right??  Any thoughts??


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on May 09, 2009, 09:05:59 AM
"These" People.... Is
Jim Stols (spelling ?)

"Stolistic" is a member of our site, perhaps PM him.

I just emailed my wife and asked her to check if Active has gotten any more of the 6N chips in.... when I get back (May 24 - June 5 ish) I intend to get back on this.

Our other slot tech extrodranier.... "Jim" who posted the schematic might be able to give you some set points to test with a multimeter to determine if your Keno Pen board is fried or bad.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Rep on May 10, 2009, 06:19:57 AM
I believe it's "Stolis" Jay, but no matter. Stolistic wrote the MAME driver so he knows the PE+ REALLY well, Jim is another guru and a great guy, has been nothing but helpful to me as well as other members (as has Stolistic). I'd wager to say if between the 2 of them they can't get you up and running nobody can, they're awesome!


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Stolistic on May 11, 2009, 06:50:41 PM
I skimmed the schematics and could not find any jumpers that were not accounted for specific tasks.  I also strongly agree that U21 requires a 6N137 to trigger pin 3 on the 6545 video processor.

MAME code has to convert mouse coordinates into screen positions and writes the values directly to the emulated CRTC chip.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Jim on May 14, 2009, 12:59:10 AM
I'll pass this along for consideration:  as Stolistic has stated the output from U-21pin 6 goes to a pull up resistor  r-49  10K from there it goes to pin 3 of U-76 a 6545. the input to u-21 is from the light pen , I think any time the pen is close to a light source it will trigger u-21 and place a ground on pin 6 .  then when you press on the light pen it sends a signal (SW-20) . thru r-1 a510 ohm resistor and  on to pin 2 of u-3 an opto ILD2. the output pin 7 puts a ground on pin5 of resistor pack 6( also a 10K pull up) which goes to pin 5 of u-9 (74HC573)  the combination of both of these signals should produce a number pick. these can be tested, however it won't be easy, you'll probably have to extend the test points by soldering wire extensions on to the test points and exposing them outside the card cage. very risky, but with some care and determination it can be done  the major concern is that you don't let the extensions short out against anything else. You should be able to observe the change when you use the pen.   I don't have any poker machines to test with,if I did I would have you send me the parts and I would test them.in lieu of that, this is the best I can offer.Have you tried to turn the deselect to off and see what happens?? (as per one of your pictures).   THIS IS ONLY MY THEORY AND I COULD BE WRONG.

Jim


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on May 15, 2009, 10:01:56 AM
Thanks Jim, I understand your test, but I will have my local Wiz place the leads so I dont screw it up.  Also, Yes I have tried with deselect on and off.

I'll pass this along for consideration:  as Stolistic has stated the output from U-21pin 6 goes to a pull up resistor  r-49  10K from there it goes to pin 3 of U-76 a 6545. the input to u-21 is from the light pen , I think any time the pen is close to a light source it will trigger u-21 and place a ground on pin 6 .  then when you press on the light pen it sends a signal (SW-20) . thru r-1 a510 ohm resistor and  on to pin 2 of u-3 an opto ILD2. the output pin 7 puts a ground on pin5 of resistor pack 6( also a 10K pull up) which goes to pin 5 of u-9 (74HC573)  the combination of both of these signals should produce a number pick. these can be tested, however it won't be easy, you'll probably have to extend the test points by soldering wire extensions on to the test points and exposing them outside the card cage. very risky, but with some care and determination it can be done  the major concern is that you don't let the extensions short out against anything else. You should be able to observe the change when you use the pen.   I don't have any poker machines to test with,if I did I would have you send me the parts and I would test them.in lieu of that, this is the best I can offer.Have you tried to turn the deselect to off and see what happens?? (as per one of your pictures).   THIS IS ONLY MY THEORY AND I COULD BE WRONG.

Jim


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 06, 2009, 10:55:12 AM
The Mrs. confirms that I have had 6 chips show up at the house.

I purchased two different versions of the 6n137 chip (3 each).
The main difference appears to be the forward voltage.
One was 0.65c the other 0.75. The total cost was 4.44.

The shipping was 19.00 to Canada so my rationalle was that I could perhaps save a few cents and only get 1 of each or perhaps only one kind
but if there was a question as to if the chip was good or perhaps if one or the other didn't work then the penalty for shipping + wait time would be a killer.

I arrive home at 00:54 on Friday June 12th. When I get up in the morning I intend to play a bit and will report back.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on June 07, 2009, 02:42:21 AM
Hello Jay,  Thanks for the update.  Still no luck here.  Hopefully, you will get yours up and running.
The Mrs. confirms that I have had 6 chips show up at the house.

I purchased two different versions of the 6n137 chip (3 each).
The main difference appears to be the forward voltage.
One was 0.65c the other 0.75. The total cost was 4.44.

The shipping was 19.00 to Canada so my rationalle was that I could perhaps save a few cents and only get 1 of each or perhaps only one kind
but if there was a question as to if the chip was good or perhaps if one or the other didn't work then the penalty for shipping + wait time would be a killer.

I arrive home at 00:54 on Friday June 12th. When I get up in the morning I intend to play a bit and will report back.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 13, 2009, 03:45:25 AM
Well it took me almost all day but I finally got to go downstairs and play.....

I inserted the opto-coupler and the game did not work.

I am now able to do a light pen test in the setup menu and have it go from 0 to 1 when I press the light pen to the florescent in the belly door.
I have 3 light pens and 3 driver boards, all 3 of the boards work but only two of the pens.

I got the notion that perhaps I would try the second opto coupler with the higher forward voltage and see if that made a difference. It didn't.
I then tried pressing the light pen to the screen and again it went from a 0 to a 1, so I figured I was getting closer.
However when I press the light pen on the slot stand - it also goes from a 0 to a 1.

I would conculde  that it is picking up the mechanical closure of the pen and not the light.

I have one of the light pens soaking in some water to perhaps clean the optics. Who knows what they may have been exposed to in their service life

Suggestions welcome.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: knagl on June 13, 2009, 04:34:36 AM
Is there more than one input test item for the pen (ie. one for the physical switch in the tip and one for whether or not it's seeing light)?

Was that test that you mentioned NOT changing from zero to one prior to the 6n137 chip being used?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on June 13, 2009, 11:54:53 AM
Hello Jay, Welcome Back.  I want to add my 2 cents worth.  The only test that I have found is for the switch on the end of the pen, nothing for any optical input.  On my machine, depressing the switch on the light pen, will toggle the 1 and 0 in self test both with and without the 6n137 chip in. 

Somewhere in my research I came across a keyboard type input device that mounts on the belly door of a PEP upright.  This bulky thing was used instead of the light pen to select the numbers.  When you set up the keno program you select between the keyboard or pen as input device.  Have you ever seen one of these keyboards?  I am curious if our machines would accept input from the keyboard.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 13, 2009, 02:15:45 PM
The setup screen gives you the choice between tablet and lightpen.
I have seen them pictured on dedicated keno machines. I agree they look big and bulky.
Never been up close to one.

I am not sure if my lightpen interface worked before the 6n chip was inserted.
However it has answered the question that the interface from the MPU back to the pen is working.... at least electrically.

This would lead me to believe that the problem is related to the 6N chip that we are using.






Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on June 14, 2009, 07:55:19 AM
Just a thought?  Any chance the keno program requires a certain Cap Prom for the light pen to read the screen location properly?  Maybe a jumper or switch on the monitor board?  Anything that may change the screen output to something the pen optics can read and plot?  I remember reading something about when a retrofit from poker to keno is attempted one should contact IGT.  What is the secret step??  I wonder if any of the monitor or video gun game gurus have any ideas for us?  ARG!  Also, Has anyone ever seen a keno game specific manual from IGT?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: TZtech on June 14, 2009, 08:29:55 AM
Hi

I have  never seen or worked on these before. Have checked IGT and there is not much there either. What i did however notice is that the PE keno seems to come in a dual screen configuration. Have no idea how the PE board drives a second screen.  Let me know what SW you have and i can look  on the PSR what  CAP prom is recomended.

It does seem strange that there is no test for the actual light switch part of the circuit - You could however try and place the game in game mode and then press the pen against a strong light source (Ie engage mechanical switch) As there is no timing involved my guess is that it would pick a bunch of consecutive numbers (Uneducated wild idea but may as well try :>)

Regards
Ian


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: StatFreak on June 14, 2009, 09:51:48 AM
It would more likely produce an error. To the pen and software, the screen isn't lit up; it is dark with any given single point being lit for perhaps as little as 35 nanoseconds about once every 60th of a second. (I'm playing a bit loose with these numbers and basing them on a computer monitor at 800x600 at 60Hz because I don't know the scan rates and resolution of the PE monitors, but the principle is the same.) The computer is expecting a very brief flash of light within those parameters and will be trying to determine the time between the pen pulse input and the beginning of the monitor's sweep cycle -- by looking at the horizontal and vertical counters on the video card -- to determine the pen's position on the screen. A continuous beam of light could not be translated into any position. If you could pulse the light within the expected windows of duration and rate that the program expects to see, then it might accept the input and mark spots according to the evaluated positions at each pulse.

Perhaps the pen's hardware could be tested by looking for a voltage change at the output of the pen's PCB when light is applied and removed from the pen.  :103- Another issue could be that the pen will only respond to a narrow range of light frequency and/or intensity, but not necessarily.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 14, 2009, 01:39:04 PM
What there should be is a light pen calibration screen just like there is one for a touch screen. As images move to different locations if you mess with the symentry. I guess the logic here is that the keno spots are so big that your monitor would really need to be screwed if the spots were in signfigantly different locations.

What we do know is that we have a wiring harness that comes off of the metal can that presumeably interconnects back to the motherboard and MPU. This is connected up to a small lightpen driver board via 4 wires, there are several ics, caps and transistors on this, on the far side of the board is a 3 pin (2 wire) connection to the light pen and a fiber connector that loosely resembles a LC connector (albiet this predates the LC spec by 20+ years).

The fact that the light pen works at least mechanically (you press it down and it activates the mini switch inside of it) subsequently the 0 flips to a 1 on the self test screen you can draw from this that the wiring and driver board is ok. I have gone one step further in that I have 3 pens and 3 driver boards so its unlikely (but not improbable) that at least some of my gear ott to be good.

This then leads me to believe that either the 6N opticopupler chip is either not the generic ones that we have purchased.
I am going to explore some other possibilities. For instance I have the harness hanging out of the belly door connected to ths board.

Perhaps the driver board needs to be mechanically grounded ? I have also followed the dot on the chip (no knotch) and aligned it so that it is at the same end as the knotch in the IC holder. Could IGT have been as evil as to mount this contrary to spec ? I have not had any more time to play but will likely have some time Monday morning when the kids leave for school.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: StatFreak on June 14, 2009, 03:40:42 PM
What there should be is a light pen calibration screen just like there is one for a touch screen. As images move to different locations if you mess with the symentry. I guess the logic here is that the keno spots are so big that your monitor would really need to be screwed if the spots were in signfigantly different locations.
...

I'm not sure that a pen would require any calibration. It shouldn't matter how you adjust the symmetry or other display controls because it's looking at the digital clock timing to determine where the electron gun was in the sweep cycle when the pen picked up the "hot" pixel it was pointing to. If a particular trigger point (like a button or a keno number) began at line x at pixel y, continued to the right for n pixels, and continued from the the same pixel y for n pixels for the next m lines, it wouldn't matter if the display positions, H or V size, etcetera were changed since the same pixel would always be drawn at the same "time" in the sweep cycle and the computer would know what the pen was "pointing" to.

That differs from a touchscreen because touchscreens work as a static overlay (IR optical, capacitive, or whatever) whose XY coordinates are physically fixed at the time of installation. They therefore need to be aligned with the image being displayed because they actually have nothing to do with the image; the computer has to have calibration references to determine what part of the video map was underneath the location that was touched.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: knagl on June 14, 2009, 09:54:12 PM
A friend of mine has seen (and tossed) a bunch of the keno "keyboards" in his shop.  I'll see if he still has any.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 15, 2009, 12:03:35 AM
It would be interesting to see what chip he has in his PE+ boards and if he is aware of anything special to make the Keno run.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on June 15, 2009, 08:22:09 AM
Hello, the game EPROM has XK000011 printed on it 09/09/99.  It looks like the CAP has 1267 printed on it but it is very hard to read.  Thanks.
Hi

I have  never seen or worked on these before. Have checked IGT and there is not much there either. What i did however notice is that the PE keno seems to come in a dual screen configuration. Have no idea how the PE board drives a second screen.  Let me know what SW you have and i can look  on the PSR what  CAP prom is recomended.

It does seem strange that there is no test for the actual light switch part of the circuit - You could however try and place the game in game mode and then press the pen against a strong light source (Ie engage mechanical switch) As there is no timing involved my guess is that it would pick a bunch of consecutive numbers (Uneducated wild idea but may as well try :>)

Regards
Ian


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: TZtech on June 15, 2009, 01:04:28 PM
Hi

According to the PSR thats the correct CAPX.
CG2120 specified for the graphics EPROMS.

SET004 specified set chip.

Regards
Ian


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 15, 2009, 02:00:27 PM
Its not the game or cap that I am interested in, but rather what is in U21.
The tech manual posted by Jim pointed to a 6n137.

We now have two different people having using the stock version of this chip with the same results.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: TZtech on June 15, 2009, 06:36:54 PM
Hi

Parts lists says High Speed 6N137. No manufacturer specified but the high speed specification may be where your problem is. Will check tomorrow on my spare boards at work to see if any have this part.

Ian


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Stolistic on June 15, 2009, 06:57:34 PM
Anyway you can verify that pins 7 and 8 (on U21) both have power when the machine is on?  Pin 7 is used to enable the output and will not pulse pin 6 unless it has power even if the pen is sending data.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 15, 2009, 07:04:04 PM
probably easier said than done as the MPU slides into the system. I am sure I can cobble something up.
What should the voltages be ?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Stolistic on June 15, 2009, 07:09:33 PM
What should the voltages be ?

non-zero! lol... Your spec sheet looks like it should be +5V (on both).


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: knagl on June 16, 2009, 12:19:29 AM
It would be interesting to see what chip he has in his PE+ boards and if he is aware of anything special to make the Keno run.

He's never had any of the light pen versions -- just the keyboard.  I did ask him a few weeks ago if he was aware of anything special that had to be done for the light pens, and he said he didn't know anything about them as he's never dealt with one.  Sorry.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 16, 2009, 03:15:53 AM
Well I have some semi-postitive news to report

I just played 4 games of Keno on my PE+ ....... WOO HOO.

How you might ask..... well I will never tell......and not just because I am a jerk, its because I don't know. UGGGH !!!!

One of my 3 boards has a small metal board on its back with 2 off sets that holds it in place.

On the top Right hand corner closest to the machine interface, on the bottom of the board is a etched ring.
This particular board has what appears to be a ground wire coming from it, and is screwed against the board where this etched ring is.

Anyways I had my belly door open as that is where I have the wiring harness running through and I set the board down in that space.
Given that it has a metal back plate on it i didn't think this would cause me any grief.

I had just switched light pens and wamo I played a game of Keno. I cleared the numbers, put another couple coins in, changed light pens and it played again, 2 more games .... cool.

I then picked up the board thinking that I was a genius and the problem all this time was that we were missing a simple ground.

I ran a ground wire from this lead to the machine. NO GO. I placed the board back into the same spot, no go. I wiggled, changed boards, loosened the offsets and tightened them.
I double checked that the ground wire I had was giving me a good chasis ground all over the machine with a multimeter.

Changed light pens, NO, changed boards, N

Ideas ...thoughts ?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on June 16, 2009, 10:14:41 AM
Wow, thats great news, we must be getting very close!!  Did you power down your machine when you changed pens ??


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: stayouttadabunker on June 16, 2009, 12:29:11 PM
I've been following this thread forever it seems...lol

Without looking at this board Jay, I'm thinking that some component is warming up then loses a contact...
then it starts arcing inside the solder joint giving intermittent results...
That happens to coin comparator boards a lot...old solder working loose? esp. at the connectors?
Put some pencil tip solder heat on those old header joints might get your board back in business?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 16, 2009, 12:51:58 PM
I would be all over that, but I have 3 boards and 3 pens.... so I don't suspect all are bad.
One of the pens is bad at least mechanically but all three boards flip 0/1 on the light pen test which we know is a mechanical test.

The boards look practically new, no cold solder joints etc......


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: stayouttadabunker on June 16, 2009, 12:59:47 PM
Then it's got something do with the ground somewhere I'd suspect...
man....these are the toughest fixes to find...argh!!!! :8-
I'll bet you just about leaping outta your chair when you played the 4 games...would of liked to see that! :89-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on June 17, 2009, 02:35:16 AM
Hello Jay,
What if any jumpers do you have on E1-E5.  And, I wanted to know if your machine was on or off when you did the Pen swap right before you were able to select numbers.  Thanks


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 17, 2009, 02:54:22 AM
The pen is a 2 wire connection + 1 fiber and as we know the mechanical aspect of it makes these 2 wires simply a switch......so I had no fear in swapping it while the power was on.

I do however have some good news to report. I got it working.  :136-

1. The wire (ground strap) that is connected to the mounting hole with the trace on it needs to be grounded to the chasis.
2. The metal collar bolt for the pen also needs to be grounded. I presume when you drill a hole and mount it,  a natural ground is achieved.
3. The U21 likes to have the highspeed Opticoupler. I bought two types and both work but the highspeed one seems to be more reliable.
    This is Jameco part 113911 @ 0.69c each.
    The other one part 1548131 seems to like to have a much more signficant ground and sometimes I have to select a number twice to get it to register.

I leave tomorrow morning for my next rotation..... if you have any more problems they will need to wait 17days until I am home LOL.



Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Brianzz on June 17, 2009, 02:58:52 AM
I do however have some good news to report. I got it working.  

Oh yeah? How?  :96-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 17, 2009, 03:01:56 AM
I accidently posted too early. See previous post.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Brianzz on June 17, 2009, 03:57:55 AM
 :72-

well, at least you're persistent or is that consistent  :103-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 17, 2009, 04:25:35 AM
My parents used to use words like encorageable and autistic..... for many years I thought they were encouraging me to draw..... then someone pointed out that I was wearing hockey equipment but not playing hockey, none of the other hockey players on our "special" bus seemed to notice.....  :72- 

Most of the voices went away right after the ailen abduction, albiet the tinfoil hat does help too if you don't mind the odd jolt of lightning every once and again when it rains.  :25-

I actually only have about 4hrs into this project, finding the time in 20min blocks was the hard part. Just too much going on this time of year.....

I really do want to thank JIM who pointed out the U21 and Jim S for all of the ideas. Of course the rest of the gang was here encouraging ???? me along...



Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: stayouttadabunker on June 17, 2009, 12:41:19 PM
I glad you got it going! Good job! :3-
I wonder if the fix was because of the U21 opticoupler or the grounds...or both... :129-

Still, I'm happy the pen's working...can we see a video of the machine in action 17 days from now? :79-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: knagl on June 17, 2009, 07:17:07 PM
Hey hey, congratulations on solving the mystery and getting it to work!   :3- :3- :3-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: StatFreak on June 17, 2009, 08:57:23 PM
Great detective work Jay.  :131- :131-  :3- :3- :3-
I'm looking forward to seeing your pictures when you get back from your rotation. Try not to rotate too quickly! :72- :40- :86- :96-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on June 18, 2009, 09:03:10 AM
Hey Guys!  Please dont forget about me.  I still can not get mine to work.  Remember, Jays superboard and software came out of a working keno machine.  I am trying to convert my multi-poker superboard to run keno.  I have tried 3 pens, 4 boards, and everything is well grounded.  I get the 0/1 toggle on selftest and my 6n137 is inserted properly in U21.  Any chance there is a jumper or switch or anything that needs to be changed on my board?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 18, 2009, 01:45:22 PM
No jumpers need to be changed. I compared my board to my other multipoker superboard.
In your picture you have 3 boards on your belly door, the center one with the ground strap is like mine with the ground strap.

I connected that, the coller from my light pen to the braided ground strap on the bottom of the belly door.

Pull the jameco spec sheet on the 6n137 that I used and compare it to yours.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on June 19, 2009, 07:59:58 AM
OK Thanks will do. 
No jumpers need to be changed. I compared my board to my other multipoker superboard.
In your picture you have 3 boards on your belly door, the center one with the ground strap is like mine with the ground strap.

I connected that, the coller from my light pen to the braided ground strap on the bottom of the belly door.

Pull the jameco spec sheet on the 6n137 that I used and compare it to yours.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on June 19, 2009, 06:27:36 PM
I know I had stated that my set supposedly came from a working Keno machine but the observation that we both made is that mine did not have the U21
chip that is required to make this work ..... so I think we are both working from the same point.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: CaptainHappy on June 20, 2009, 01:55:03 AM
Jay,

Off topic, but you gotta tell about the current CAT Avatar!!! Is it a suicide bomber?? :97- :97- :97-

CH :95-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: stayouttadabunker on June 20, 2009, 02:17:06 AM
lol...He used to have cute little kitty's...now they turned into suicide bombers??? :72-


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on August 05, 2009, 06:32:08 PM
Hello All,
Thanks for everyones help.  My machine is up and working great!  I finally got the proper 6n137.


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on August 05, 2009, 07:46:00 PM
Ok - cough up the details. Was it the same 6N that I found to work or what did you do different ?


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: Mikalnm on August 06, 2009, 12:00:49 AM
Hello, The 6n137 that made my machine work is marked 0825.  Now that I have it working, I find the game silly for home use.  Anyway, thanks again for your help.  Do you have any non-poker games for the PE+?  I think I will try the Red White and Blue game next if I can find it .
Michael


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: jay on August 06, 2009, 12:17:48 AM
I have only black jack.
It doesn't require a super board.
It supports progressive contributions but you can never win the progressive.

I also have STUD poker which is rather boring as you are really just betting on the turn of the last card and you can use the double down option on most games for the same thrill.

Stolistic has created a MAME version of the PE+

If you are not familar with MAME - it stands for Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator.
Typically you use it to play all of the orginal arcade games like Galaga, Centipede and Pacman on a PC
These are the real deal as they use the ROM files from the orignal games.

I have a MAME cabinet with 23000 games on it. Many are duplicates of each other like 1941 is avaialble in about 12 different languages. Then there is 1942 in the same 12 languages etc.
When I say cabinet this is all the real arcade controls wired into the computer so this is about as close to a real arcade as you can get without buying an actual PacMan cabinet. I dont know about you but I don't have room for my 50 favoriate games.....(or at least that is what my wife tells me). 

In any respect Jim has written a couple of his own PE+ games
The first was 3 card poker and the latest is a horse racing game.
I am not sure if its available for download. He has posted some screen shots on this site.

However if it is downloadable you should be able to burn it, and play it on the PE+

 


Title: Re: PE Plus Upright IBA Keno Pen Harness
Post by: stayouttadabunker on March 10, 2011, 06:52:05 PM
I leave tomorrow morning for my next rotation..... if you have any more problems they will need to wait 17days until I am home LOL.
I glad you got it going! Good job! :3-
I wonder if the fix was because of the U21 opticoupler or the grounds...or both... :129-

Still, I'm happy the pen's working...can we see a video of the machine in action 17 days from now? :79-


We're still waiting for the video clip of the keno pen in action man...!
It's waay past 17 days!!!  :97-