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I am trying to get these up and running but do not know what kind they are. They do not have a white test button. They were built in 12/98. Can antbody help me with these. I have a set of clear chips but I do not think they are for these machines. Need help. Will post pictures later.

Looking forward to the pics.   If they are S+ sometimes the test button was mounted behind the on/off switch.

Hi that is where they are. I looked all over the machine but never thought to look there. Now I might be able to clear them and get them working. Thanks a bunch.

Haha!    S+'s...my favorite machines! :96-

Now my only problem is the chips are too slow for the boards. They sold me 10 MHZ chips and I need 16 MHZ to get the reels to spin. Is there a way to tell if the boards are 10 MHZ or 16 MHZ.

my machines to fix.

pictures

pictures

machines

machines

machines

I don't know if there's such a thing as 10MHz chips...
maybe smaller chips (256K as compared to 512K).
The games you have here are mostly games that need 10MHz boards.

Take a look at the photo shopping I prepared for you.>>>
   
There is no plastic blue volume knob in the large circle...
the two smaller circles are where the jumpers would be on a 10MHz board...
on your board however, there are resistors there instead.
 Your board is a 16MHz S+ MPU board!
(Click on the photo to make it bigger!)

Hi I had the same problem with my sizzling seven games. When I installed the 16 MHZ chips it worked. Before the reels would only spin 1/4 turn than I would get a 41 or 42 or 43 error. That is what is happening now with these games.The chips are two slow for the board.

The reel chips are interchangeable but you need to use a 16 mg game chip. I had quite a few of them a while back and that is the difference. I do not know how many you have but I changed the ones I had to 10 mg boards.
Darell

by the way some self test buttons are on the back side of on off switch.
Darell

I'm a little confused here....
Is it the Nm speed of the chip that determines whether you can use a 16MHz board or not?
Because I know that if I use the wrong chip on a 16MHz board, the reels will tilt.

What I think is the chips are to slow for the board. It is just the game chip I think that needs to be faster .I might be wrong. When I replaced my chips for my sizzling sevens I replaced both game and reel to 16 MHZ.Any help out there.

Hi did find out that the reel chips make no differance at all. Just the game chip has to be 16MHZ or high speed. If not the reels won't spin and error code will show up. The chips that work well with 16 MHZ boards are 1306 and 1272.These are high speed chips.

Okay,
I did my research and found that the 16MHz boards
are running chips that have Access Times of 120Ns (nanoseconds) or 150Ns...
while the 10MHz boards are running chips that are usually around 90Ns or 100Ns.

All chip manufacturers have slightly different ways of marking their chips (devices or packages)
but all of them seem to have some sort of number after the chip type and
seems to be in this sort of pattern:

One of mine for example was a M27C512-90B1 and installed on a 10MHz board and
would NOT work on a16MHz board.
The [M27] was the "Type" or model.
The [C] was for "Supply Voltage of 5V".
The [512] was for kbits (64x8).
The [-90] was for the "Access Time" or speed of 90Ns.
The was package of the device, whether it was a 28-pin device or a PLCC type of device.
The [1] was the Temperature range of the chip and [1] meant 0 to 70C.
   
-45=45Ns                        10MHz boards
-70=70Ns                                  "
-90=90Ns                                  "
-10=100Ns                                "
-12=120Ns                                             16MHz boards
-15=150Ns                                                     "         
-20=200Ns                                                     "
-25=250Ns                                                     " 
-30=300Ns                                                     "

In conclusion, I believe that you need a chip with
a minimum Access Time of 120Ns in order for it to operate properly on a 16MHz board.

Can you see what is written on the 1306 and 1206 chip devices?
I'd like to verify if the Ns speeds fit my little chart posted above?

Hi no they are just 1311 numbers on them. I think they are coppies.

ARGHHH!!!!! :37- :8-

I should point out that on the 10Mhz vs 16Mhz issue, it's not just the speed of the chip, but you also need an SP that is compatible with the 16Mhz board.  Also when talking about access time on memory chips, the lower the number, the faster the chip.  IGT recommends 120ns or faster for the 16 mhz boards, that is not to say that a 150ns chip wouldn't work, it may but you are likely to get errors on some of them.  Also note that the chip speed designation can be confusing at times.  In the old days when there were no chips faster than 100ns, the naming scheme was


27c512-xx where xx represented the speed used to men add a zero and you get your speed.  so a 27c512-20 was a 200ns chip.  Now if you get a chip with a-70 on it, it's a 70ns chip, not a 700ns chip. So be careful.  I try to stick to chips in the 70ns range for 16 mhz boards and pretty much anything works with the 10 mhz boards.

In the case of the reel chips, you might get read errors on the 16 mhz boards, if the reel chip is too slow.  I've sucessfully sued 200ns chips for the reel chips with no issues (other than the annoying static).  I've had failures with bad eprom data with chips in the 300's.  Just my experience, YMMV.

16 MHz would be one clock cycle every 63 ns.  10MHz would be one clock cycle every 100 ns.  If the processor fetches a new instruction from the eprom every clock, then something around 63ns would work (for 16mhz).  If the setup is two clocks, then 120ns would work.  I don't know what the processor model is, so I can't say any more than that.

Cheers,
-Greg

Most of the CPU's are micro controllers from the P80C32 family.
Some are Intel Signetics, or Siemens circa 1980,Philips...all in the PDIP packages...old stuff really.

This is an example I pulled off a website somewhere>>>

http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/80C31_80C32_1.pdf (http://www.nxp.com/acrobat_download/datasheets/80C31_80C32_1.pdf)

the Game chip has to be a compatible version, e.g sp1274 etc. A 16 meg board needs the appropriate chip.  see the quick paste below..

SP1136 Type 37          (Needs Set 91 to enable progressive)
Sp1145 Type 0,1,4,5 16MHz   YES    ID-023    SET088/89/90/91, $0.01/0.05
SP1146 Type 2,21 (Haywire, Haywire DLX) 16MHz   YES    ID-023    SET088/89/90/91, $0.01/0.05
SP1147 Type 0,1,4,5 16MHz         
SP1148 Type 14 Tournament         
SP1160 Type 0,1,4,5 10MHz   YES   ID-023   SET088/89/90/91, $0.01,0.05, 9 Paylines
SP1166 Type 37 (Needs Set 91 to enable progressive)         
SP1174 Type 0,1,4,5,12,14 10Mhz   YES    ID-023    SET087 $0.01,0.02 Supports 9 Paylines Tokenized
SP1175   YES      
SP1176   YES      
SP1184 Type 44 (Barcrest Hot Rod) 16MHz         
SP1191 Type 37          (Needs Set 91 to enable progressive)
SP1192 Type 37          (Needs Set 91 to enable progressive)
SP1206 Type 0,1,4,5,19 10MHz   YES    ID-023   SET088/91/101/102, $0.01/0.05
SP1207 Type 2,21 10MHz         
SP1213         
SP1216         
SP1227 Type 0,1,4,5,19 10MHz      ID-023   SET088,91,101,102,116 $0.01/0.05 9 Paylines
SP1228 TYPE 20         
SP1229 Type 2,21 10MHz         
SP1240         
SP1242         
SP1249         
SP1252 Type 2,21 16MHz   YES   ID-023   
SP1253 Type 0/1/4/5/14         
SP1264         
SP1271 Type 0,1,4,5,19 10MHz   YES   ID-023   SET088,91,101,102,116,121 $0.01/0.059 Paylines
SP1272 Type 0,1,4,5 16MHz         
SP1274 Type 2,21 10MHz (Haywire/Haywire DLX)   YES   ID-023   
SP1306 Type 23 10MHz    YES   ID-023   SET088,089,090,091,101,102,116,121

Oh, I see that Rick already mentioned this.... :88-

Thanks for the datasheet.  It looks like the processor takes 5 clocks (minus a fixed setup) to read instructions.  The data sheet shows 207ns address to valid instruction for a 16mhz clock.  You still need to subtract out what the address decoding is between the processor and the eprom, and what the data muxing is from the eprom back to the processor (maybe 50ns total?).  I would need to see the schematics to go any further.  It seems like a -90 eprom would be plenty fast enough.  Am I missing something else?

Does anyone know if the 10mhz board is identical to the 16mhz board (except for the speed)?  (same addressing, connectors, etc.)

Cheers,
-Greg

(I'm really gonna have to get some of these to play with)

I have not had any luck using the 16 MHz board and getting a decent sound out of a Haywire game (does not sound the same as a 10 MHz board).

Ok.  From that I would guess that the actual program is different between the 10 and the 16, that it's not just a speed compatibility issue.  (sorry for the thread detour).

Cheers,
-Greg

The 16mhz code set is different as it includes additional options to control the sound and I believe credit count speed.

Even using the SP 1146 Ken, the 16 meg board was used in many Haywire Dlx games in the day, I bought one from Chris (cp on here) back in the 90's and found the board today while looking for some other boards, I don't know if there is any other SP for type 2/21 on the 16 mhz board, I always used SP 1145 and 1146 in non Barcrest games, always on fast chips, even though there are a few others, you do have to tolerate the noise in a quiet room, but on Slant Tops you get the reel stop sound, unlike the 10 mhz, MGM properties put 16 mhz boards in all their Slants if I remember back then

Jim,

I think .. I was using the 1252. Next time I get around to I will try the 1146.

Thanks,
Ken