New Life Games Tech Forums

My transformer in a '78 Stern "Stars" is humming rather loudly now. :103-
It's even louder when certain appliances come on...
I wonder what causes this?
I'm afraid it's gonna blow up...boom! :5-
I'm thinking of getting a replacement before it does go... :89-
Anything more modern perhaps, like an ATX that has power outputs that are compatible?
Where's a good transformer supply place?
Here's a picture of the thing...
mine's not this rusty but pretty much is the same thing.
I snapped this picture offa fleabay
the bottom pic is from a pinball website.>>>

There are places that can rebuild your transformer if it is rare and not replaceable. You might want to inquire and go that route

Yes,
I've think I've found a pinball wizard guy in Poughkeepsie,NY by the name of Steve Young
who owns a website called the Pinball Resource.  (pbresource.com)
I believe if he has the capabilities to make coils, he would probably know a lot about transformers.
He makes custom coils and does all his own special wire windings.
I think he would know exactly what length windings are needed 
for a transformer to put out certain voltages.
I'm just guessing when I say that all he needs is my old transformer unit to wrap new wire on!
I will give him a buzz tomorrow and see what he can do.

Does BUZZ know that you are thinking of getting his coils wound???  :208- :208- :208-

CH :95-

Shhhh! ...don't tell Buzz that yet... :96-
CH, you don't miss anything! :5- :131- :72-

Rebuilding transformers is a very common process, it's done all the time for vintage ham radios. The reason is because a lot of companies don't make them any more and it helps the enviroment because it's 1 less piece of junk in the landfill......... They take all the pieces out of the laminated core and dispose of the wire. Then they rewind the core with the proper magnet wire(it's very thin) and then place the core back in. A lot of places rebuild motors also. Caps are usually the first thing to go as they dry out.

Oh, I've done that (replacing caps, diodes, resistors,etc...)
but I have yet to find a website that could tell me why
the transformer hums like that.
There's no moving parts in it but it hums louder than
my grandfather's fluorescent kitchen light at 11PM... :72-
I'm hard of hearing but whenever I went there,
I could always hear that light when it was on.

Stern and bally were the same if you get the number off top i,ll check and see if we have any that old 

It hums because it can't remember the words ....... happens when you get old.....  :72- :72-

If the humming is coming from the transformer its usually because the coils are leaking.... on older windings the insulation breaks down and you are getting minute amounts electricty jumping between the windings.
If you think about the big monster movies and they have those two spikes and you see the humming electrical arc rising between them.... its the same deal here except at much much smaller amounts. Could be happening in multiple places.
As its used,  more of the insulation will burn away and eventually the coil will smoke. Good call on getting it rebuilt now.

Thanks guys...I thought  that was it... :89-

SS, I'll get the numbers tonight when I get home and post them here...

Again, thanks for the insights guys... :131-
I feel a lot better knowing that at least I was on the right track and got some back-up from you's.

Okay, I pulled the transformer out and laid it on a piece of plywood on top of the machine.
The rectifier board is still attached to it.
I didn't see any numbers on the iron core but
there were some on the "paper" that's wrapped around the windings.
If I were to carefully remove the paper...
would the re be a good way to check for shorts on the windings?
or is it more likely that the shorts would be deep inside under the upper layers of windings?
Here's a couple of pictures which can be enlarged if you click on them...
The first one is the numbers ("16B-3"  with  "37-7742") and the second one is from the underside of it really.
I used my better camera which has more resolution and pixels.>>>

Before going hog wild with the transformer, did you check the diodes to make sure they weren't leaking? Was there an oversized fuse in the machine?

One of the transformer experts can speak up on this... but maybe you can ring it like a flyback to check for bad windings?

The 4 diodes next the the rectifiers each checked in at around .463 and
I was getting null readings with my test leads switched around.
All fuses are correct...I don't take shortcuts there...
wanna see a bad, cheap fix photo from Steve Kulpas website? LOL

check this out....guaranteed you'll smile when you see these
Look at the tinfoil in the fuse holder? :30- :25->>>

http://stevekulpa.net/pinhacks/pinhacks.htm (http://stevekulpa.net/pinhacks/pinhacks.htm)

Well everyone knows if you let the smoke out, it's not gonna work anymore.....

No smoke yet...LOL
This is totally precautionary measures so far...
I know, I know>>>"Don't fix it If It Ain't Broke"
I don't want smoke though! I hate fires!

Now I gotta dig around and see how I can rig it like a flyback...
I learn something new everyday...thanks Channel!

I am a musician and a DJ that preforms at many live events and I've used the tinfoil trick before - but only in emergencies and only temporary.  I also would never be surprised if it blew up the equipment I was doing it to - but that hasn't happened yet (knocking on wood).  I always have a piece of tinfoil in my cable case...

Dan #2

Some of those repairs are just groovey!!!  :208- :208- :208-

Thanks for the link,  :3- the pictures were easy to read, just like a comic book! Made me laugh like a comic book too!  :97- :97-

WE HAVE NEVER BEEN OUT ON THE BOAT IN THE OPEN OCEAN HAVING A PROBLEM AND SOLVING IT BY WRAPPING A FEW STRANDS OF WIRE ON THE BLADE STYLE FUSE RIGHT BEFORE SHOVING IT BACK IN!!! OK MAYBE WE HAVE, BUT SINCE I AM TYPING HERE RIGHT NOW, I CAN SAY HONESTLY WE HAVE NEVER BEEN PERMANENTLY STRANDED OUT ON THE OPEN OCEAN!!!

CH :95-

I,ll look for  trans  i know i have on from a bally mr/mrs pacman pin when we moved  i know the where aleast 5 we had

LOL...a pack of assorted fuses couldn't cost ya more than $4.00 ? C'MON!   :97-

Some of the pics look like my soldering and wiring jobs. They look good to me.    :98- :154- :140- :5-

 :72- ^^^What he said^^^^

I will quote this tip from a pinball site>>>

Mr. Pinball Tip:
Transformers rarely fail. If the transformer buzzes very loudly, gets very hot very quickly,
and its output voltages are wrong,
then the transformer is probably going bad and should be replaced.

Most problems attributed to the transformer are really a failure elsewhere.
Cold solder joints, broken wires, bad fuse holders, bad wall plug, broken switches, and
bad connectors symptoms are often mistakenly blamed on the transformer.
Be absolutely certain that the transformer has failed before going to the bother of replacing it.


Sounds like this guy really hates replacing transformers... :96-

But he might be right like Channelmaniac in pointing out that the problem may lie elsewhere....
Guess what...I think it was!

It was getting a little cool in my garage lately so
I picked up a 1,750 floor element heater and stuck it near my legs while I played.
When it was on, the machine would start buzzing...
when I turned the heater off...the loud buzzing went away.
I think the heater was trying to rob wattage or something from the pinball machine's transformer?

I'm bringing it in the house tonight and see what happens...plus, it's warmer.... :96-
I think I better get a 20Amp circuit breaker, pick up a roll of 12AWG, a few wall sockets and
install it to my garage for the heavier load items such as
a floor heater and air compressor? :5-

I found out something else too...
I found it in an IGT manual somewhere.
You should not hook up my than 7 slot machines on one circuit/line.
It too much of a load on the house wiring...
not that I have 7 slot machines... :72-
 

I know, but if the bin with all of the goodies like that are in the back of your vehicle from some recent work that morning, they don't do you any good during sea trials!!!   :30- :30- :30-

I tried to buy some off of a passing sea lion, but he was greedy and wanted 400 Clams for some fuses!!! :96- :96- :96-

I did not have enough Clams, and was afraid of getting a loan from the local (LOAN) Shark, as at his interest rates you would never BITE into the principal!  :25- :25- :25- I just did not want to be one the LINE with him if he FLOATED me a loan! :60- :60- :60-

I asked for some help from another cute little sea creature, but he suggested that I get KELP (help) from the OTTERS!!!  :99- :99- :99-

So instead we FISHED around for a sacrificial wire to HOOK up to the fuse temporarily so that we could still have a WHALE of a good time!!!  :131- :131- :131-

 :208- :208- :208-

Hopefully someone reads this and remembers that you need a TRANSFORMER!!! I won't tell you to check Michael EBAY for one! :81-

CaptainHillarious :103-

Now as I re-read the above post, I feel really silly as I assumed quickly that your comment "LOL...a pack of assorted fuses couldn't cost ya more than $4.00 ? C'MON!" was in reference to my post below, but it was in reference to another post!!! OOPS!!!  :25- :208- :30-


CH :95-

ABALONE! That loan SHARK was just being SHELLFISH and trying to SPONGE off of you. What a COD. I would have SUCKER punched him and then EEL hauled him. You OTTER have slipped a FIN to the GROUPERS to BAIT them into KELPing you MUSCLE the Sea Lion into lowering his price, just for the HALIBUT.

But look on the bright side: your FLATHEAD could have blown a SEAL and left you FLOUNDERing without PORPOISE. Then you'd have had to CORAL a mechanic to TUNA your STINGRAY. Holy MACKEREL, I'm not trying to be KOI with you. Do you think that I say this to every BULLHEAD that comes down the PIKE? I'm not talking GIBBERFISH and don't want to SKATE the issue. At least you got home without the need of a STURGEON.

That whole story sounds F... well, it sounds unbelievable!

The last few posts are bloody amazing.... :131-   :96- :72-

Reminds me of a song full of fish puns I once heard on Dr. Demento.

I miss that radio show.  :8-

http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radio/B000056W0C/ref=pd_krex_dp_001_004?ie=UTF8&track=004&disc=001 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radio/B000056W0C/ref=pd_krex_dp_001_004?ie=UTF8&track=004&disc=001)

I knew that Stafreak would fall for the post HOOK LINE AND SINKER!!! :208- :208- :208-

CH :95-

SHEET :96-, nothing gets BASS you SEA H. :200-  I thought I SMELT a RATTAIL. :20-  MINNOW I can't SEA BAIT like that and KNOT come up with at least one BARB.

SF :31-

I can't think of any nautical jokes, but I love the pictures on the pinhacks page. One about 2/3 of the way down, the EPROM hack, nothing to do with transformers or fuses - there's another thread on the site about this. Notice the EPROM type is a 2716 made by NEC. Originally it would have been a Texas Instruments TMS2716, which has a slightly different pinout and can't be programmed by any EPROM programmer made in the last 20 years. If you need to replace one you have little alternative than to use a proper 2716 and rewire the pins.

I tend to agree with Mr Pinballtip about the transformer - they rarely fail, and the problem is very likely elsewhere. That is if there's even a real problem. The trafo looks in excellent condition in Stout's photo, no blackening or visible signs of distress. Think about what a transformer is - a big powerful alternating electromagnet with a substantial quantity of thin iron plates. Everything in a transformer wants to shake in time with the magnetic field - each of the laminations, the coils, the frame, the screws, and any other metal close enough to feel the field. As they get older, inevitably something in there starts to work a bit loose and it begins to hum. The chances of you being able to find the loose part and fix it are slim. The magnetic field strength depends on the load current, so if a fault develops a previously quiet trafo may suddenly start to buzz fiercely, which is a sure sign to look for smoke. But if the buzz just crept up gradually, you can either live with it or not. A lot of transformers, especially in domestic equipment, are vacuum impregnated with varnish to stick everything firmly together. If you send your transformer to be rebuilt and the shop has the equipment to do this, it may well come back looking like it tripped over and fell in a glue pot. That may in fact be the only treatment it receives.

I agree with you Op,
I think I may still get the transformer "re-glued" at a shop...lol
I think my floor heater (when on fully at 1,750 watts) was what pushed the
laminated plates to their limits and caused the transformer to buzz like that.
I also think it was due to the large temperature differences from the cold garage and switching on the juice.
The transformer works great now that it's in the warm house!
It's not loud at all now.

oh, speaking of hacks, I love the last picture of the "Golden Arches".... :96-

Op...

I have a programmer (Data I/O Series 22) that will program the TMS2716 chips and I have 60+ of those chips here in the bins. ;)

RJ

Shhh!  :58-  You'll have lots of friends! That's good to know, though. Series 22 - was that made in the last 20 years?

As far as I know, the only programmer in current production that can do those suckers is the Unisite XPI, which brags that it supports every programmable device ever made back to the 1702.

I'd love to find something that can do the 1702... that's the one big hole in my programming capabilites.

Between the Data I/O Series 22, it's add-on PROM module, and the ROMMax from eeTools, I can do most older PROMs and EPROMs.

If I recall correctly, it involved driving the data lines with minus 48 volts for logic 1!

Last item on this page (http://www.arlabs.com/adapters.htm)

DAMN!

$695 for that 1702 adapter? Insane.

I'll dig around surplus stores the next time I'm in San Jose...

You could probably make one if you could get your hands on the schematics?

PE+ CAP chips?  :71-

Got a part # on the IC chip?