New Life Games Tech Forums

Hello all, first time caller long time listener LOL yes another newb here. i come here seeking the wisdom of all the brilliant people in this group. seriously now, my question is, I just made what I thought was a good buy from Craigslist 2 days ago and now need some help. I have a Bally pro 5500 "WHITE LIGHTNING" game that had a dead battery so I looked around and found on this site the instructions for a remote battery setup that uses the 3AA batteries and a diode so I ran out to Radio Shack today and got my supplies and went to work getting it together and checked the voltage from the 3 batteries and it was reading 4.6 volts. I did a complete saferam clear and the machine powered up for the 1st time in a couple years and seemed to be working OK but it does like a system reset about every minute. so I guess I am wondering if the higher voltage may be to high and causing this issue or is it probably something else. the people I bought the machine had said it has sat for about 2 years or so if that matters. well I hope someone can give me some clues as to where to start.
thanks in advance, Jerry

Hi jpjackpot and welcome to NLG.  :88-

If you did the mod correctly the diode will reduce the voltage somewhat and there shouldn't be an issue. In addition, the battery is only used when the power is off.

Can you be more specific about what you mean when you say "system reset"? Does the bill validator cycle? Do the digits in LEDs blank out (credit meter, last coins played, etc.)? Do the reels spin slowly (with that grinding noise) and reset their position like they do at initial power up? Are there any tilt codes?

thank you for the welcome and the quick reply, I used the 4 place battery holder and the 1n4004 doiode in the first location with the cathoid end towards the wires. i also put a molex type connector on the leads coming from the battery holder and the is where I get my 4.6 volt reading. ok when I power on the machine it seems to start up fine no errors at all but when it sets for about 5 min. it starts to act up. it will give 1 beep and then you hear the bill validator cycle through but it still has no codes showing on the meter. no real spins so it is not like a complete restart but you can even be in the test mode and it will still beep and reset on you. well I am off to work I can get some pictures tonight of anything you may need ifthat will help.
thanks again Jerry

OK so I think I stumbled on to something here, when I bought this game last week the belly glass light was flickering like the bulb or starter was going bad so I went and bought a pack of FS2 starters and put it in the correct socket, powered up the game and the light still flickered as before so I removed the new starter with the machine still on and the game does not do it machine reset like it does with the lamp starter in place. to confirm this I powered down the game and put a starter back in place turned it back on again and it went right back to doing a reset cycle every minute or so. does this make any since to anybody please let me know if you have any ideas

So what your saying is that with the belly light OFF - the machine plays without incident. 

When you power up the light the machine will reboot every few minutes. 

Does the belly light flicker when the machine reboots?


My first thought would be the power supply.  However I believe the lighting wiring is separate from the electronics wiring in the power supply.    I've had a totally dead power supply a couple of times but the machine bulbs still came on.

It sounds like a power supply problem. If you can get a known good PS and swap it out, that would be my first suggestion. If there is a problem with the PS, I would suspect the capacitors first.

Perhaps one of our members might have another suggestion. :103-


<ADD>Munch, you beat me to the post! :5- :72-

Just so you know the power supply in those things die all the time. 

I have a spare at all times just in case. 

what would be a good price for a new power supply I do not have a good one unless the one out of my 6000 machine is the same. i have attached a picture to show what I mean. if I leave that fs2 starter out than the machine is fine and functions as normal when I put it in the belly lamp flashes and about every minute the machine beeps 1 time and then the DBV will reset. thanks guys for the help here

6000 is the exact same unit - give it a try!

well I may tear into it tomorrow then and see if that helps. I have to be getting ready for the NEW YEAR tonight. but thanks again I do appreciate your help.

If the PS doesn't fix it, You may as well look for a short in the wiring that goes to the lights, or change the ballast, it could be shorting.

w

And if you have not already tried this, change the bulb. Have heard even though the
bulb seems to work, a bad one causes some crazy problems. Just a thought.

Ron (r273)

You seem to be quite thorough, but if you haven't done so already, I think that you should try a69mopar and Ron's suggestions BEFORE swapping power supplies, since it would be a much easier fix. I would try a couple of the starters that you bought and a new florescent bulb before pulling the main PS. I would also look at the ballast for that bulb before the PS, since the problem is related to that part of the machine and replacing it would be a less expensive solution.

Exacyly Stat, I would check the ballast first since it could be shorting when it gets warm.  Many machines will restart when there is a short, including s2000 machines, I've had that happen before.

Happy New Year,
Wayne

well just to give an update, yesterday I went ahead and changed the bulb and starter before I messed with anything else and I am very surprised (shocked actually) but the game seems to be working perfect now. I would have never guessed a bulb would cause such a problam. unless it is just a huge coincidence and I have a intermittent problem that is not acting up at the moment. if so I will continue on down the list of suggestions you all have made. thanks again everyone for all the quick replies. Jerry

 :105-

Glad to hear that your machine is up and running Jerry! :3- :3- :3-

Don't forget to post some of your big hits in the "Best Hits at Home" thread. :71- :71-

You might want to reconsider this. First off the battery voltage will be a tad high if you used 1.5 volt cells. There are so many 3.0 and 3.6 volt cells available.
Second (and this is a big one) if the original battery was NOT rechargeable, the blocking diode is already in the circuit. There is no need for another one.
but here is another problem. Your average SILICON diode has a forward voltage drop of 0.74 volts. That means your voltage will be 4.6 - 0.74 = 3.94Volts. If there is another diode on the board (Im sure there is) your voltage drops another 0.7 volts to 3.3 volts (still OK). Remember this is backing up a 5.0 Volt buss.
But there is another problem. the Druid at Radio-Crap that asked if he could help you (they usualy cant) What Mr. Radio-Crap DIDNT tell you was the 1N4004 diode is a 400 VOLT diode.If you look at this diode's forward voltage drop you will find it's really a "Stack" of diodes. This is how they get that 1000 volt rating. So if the 1N4004 is 2/3 or 4 diodes in series inside that plastic piece, your forward voltage drop can be as high as 0.7 volts X 4=2.8 VOLTS! Motorola specs the 1N4004 at 0.93 to 1.1 volt of forward drop.
While you are running 500Volts...1.1 volts doesnt mean squat.
The fix?
*IF* you really need that diode in series, use a 1N4000. this one is a 50 volt diode, less voltage drop. You could use a 1N4148 (signal diode) since the current is so low.
Do yourself a favor, get a CR2032 3.0 Volt Coin battery and a coin cell holder.Get rid of the diode. This setup will last you for a LONG time. Coin (Watch) batteries are everywhere (WAL*MART).

Kirk

The documentation of the battery fix, which was originally from CFH, is posted here (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=148.msg663#msg663), including pictures and KirkLasVegas' suggestion of using the 1N4000 or 1N4002 instead of the 1N4004. :71-

 :103- OK so I am confused, I really know nothing about electronics but where does this voltage drop take place because if you look at the pictures I have posted here you Will see I put in a plug in my wires and this is where I checked my voltage with the batteries and diode in place and it reads 4.6 volts there so does that mean my 1n4004 diode is not working because I see no drop at all or do I have it in backwards? I did order a couple saft batteries I may just go ahead and solder one on. oh and you are right about Radio Shack I asked questions about diodes and he had no clue at all.   :60- LOL

Nice install....
Here you have 3 choices, ALL will work...
1> CR2032 Coin battery (WAL*MART watch section)
2> Type 123 Photo battery (WAL*MART photo section)
3> "AA" Lithium battery (WAL*MART/7-11/corner gas station)

Choice 1> It's small,cheap,easy to replace, has the shortest backup time 3.0Volts
Choice 2> Needs leads soldered to the battery,Will outlast the machine, 3.0 Volts
Choice 3> Drops in your holder, good backup time,cheap to replace, voltage 4.5 Volts

If the 5500 had a LITHIUM battery in it before, you DO NOT need the series diode, remove it.
If the 5500 had a Ni-Cad    battery in it before, you DO need the diode in series,leave it in place.

Radio-Shack Motto " You have questions? We have batteries! can I interest you in a FREE phone today?"

I would reccomend upgrading the battery to a high performance, but compatible battery for only a few dollars more, this will solve the problem with S5500 machines going through batteries   The High Capacity TL5903 would replace the TL5104 which is the same as a saft LS14500.

(http://media.digikey.com/photos/Tadiran%20Batteries%20Photos/TL-5903%5ES.jpg) 

http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1094-battery-lith-aa-3-6v-hc-cylinder-tl-5903-s.html (http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1094-battery-lith-aa-3-6v-hc-cylinder-tl-5903-s.html)

Thanks,
Wayne

Thanks for the great link wayne!!! :89-

that will certainly do the trick too :)

Kirk

Guys, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that is a standard SAFT full AA 3.6v battery. The 1/2AA size is what Bally used in the machine to begin with. I have been using the above batteries and I can assure you that despite the extra miliamp hours, it will need replacing every 12 months or so for the average home owner that plays their machine on weekends and turns it off most of the week.

If you are going to go that route, use a single AA battery holder instead of the 4-pack holder, but keep it on an extension outside of the box so that you can change it with the power on. That way, you will be able to avoid doing a clear and setup as long as the old battery still has some charge. When I get the 81, I replace the battery with power on, then recycle the power on the machine. So far, my machines have always come right up with no error and the settings intact.

The only reason that I have not switched over to the alkaline solution with the diode is that I was able to buy ten of those full AA SAFT lithium batteries for next to nothing from All Electronics a little while back. I'll probably switch after they're gone, since I can by 40 AA alkalines at Costco for about $10.

For what it's worth, I have to change the batteries on my two 5500 ProSlots like clockwork, but my three S-pluses and my Wms Dotmation have never required a battery change since I bought them. I've had one of the S-pluses since 2000, and it remained unplugged for almost two years before I was able to get it working. As far as I know, it's still running the original battery that was installed in 1994.

Hi Stat,
   I must keep my machines on more than you, my batteries last longer than that, although my remaining S5500 machines are packed behind about a hundred S6000 machines and may need batteries by the time I uncover them.  I dont use the saft batteries anymore, and use Tadiran batteries instead.  I have used the TL5104 for a long time then found the TL5903.  I like to use these  in Gamemakers and S5500 machines, and you are correct the original S5500 battery was 1/2AA LS14250 or equivalent.  Here is a little info on the TL5903:
The iXtra Cylindrical Cell Series are built for long term high performance. This is achieved through higher energy densities which can range up to 710Wh/Kg and 1420Wh/L, and are the highest capacity by weight and volume compared to any known battery technology. In addition to their high capacity and longevity these batteries can perform under extreme conditions. With a potential operating temperature range of -55°C to 150°C, these are the ideal batteries for harsh climates where battery replacement can be difficult.
The TL-5903/S is AA cell with a rated voltage 3.6V from the iXtra Cylindrical Cell Series. These batteries are found in a variety applications such as RF systems, Automatic Meter Reading, Wireless Security and Tracking systems and many more.

Special Feature:

    * Fast voltage recovery after long term storage and/or usage
    * High energy density
    * Low self discharge rate
    * Bobbin construction
    * Hermetic glass-to-metal-sealing
    * Non-flammable electrolyte

In any case there are many options to choose from here, and to each their own.  I'm surprised no-one has designed a battery charger equipped S5500 mod yet, or maybe Bunker has........

W :96-

My batteries in the Bally ProSlots haven't died on me yet.... :96-

Hey Stat,
   Maybe you should try this one, 3.6v 19Ah
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1107-battery-pak-lith-3-6v-leads-conn-tl-5930-f.html (http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1107-battery-pak-lith-3-6v-leads-conn-tl-5930-f.html)
(http://media.digikey.com/photos/Tadiran%20Batteries%20Photos/TL-5930%5EF.jpg)

W

I replaced a few of my S6000 already with the Tadiran TL-5903 and a single double AA holder $1
the problem I had with digi key was they said no shipping battery via mail so the next tier of shipping was double the price
I said the hell with it and went to rat shack which stocked the 5903 for $16.99 which was less than I would have paid digi key for 1 shipped
just a thought in case anyone wants the battery asap I know I've seen 5903 cheaper via my travels on the net
yes rat shack is still good for some things needed same day.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3795415 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3795415)

 :200- :97- :208- :97- :200- :97- :208- :97- :200-

That thing looks like it wants to be lit and blown up!   :12- :12- :12- :12-  :208- :208- :208- :208-

A D cell lithium huh? :128- :103-  19Ah.. that's 19,000mAh ... :128- 
Maybe I ought to look into it?  :79-  :127- :5-

I thought about pasting you from a pic onto it, but didn't bother.  These are less than $20 each, and may be worth it if they fit in the space.  There are also C cells that I believe are 12Ah, that would definitely fit.  They come in different configurations including with axial leads I believe.  I would likely look at putting a C battery holder on the board, I think it would fit nicely.

Thanks,
Wayne

www.mouser.com (http://www.mouser.com)       #667-TL5903P     AA/2.4ah       page 2073  in catalog     each= $8.05

Jim

http://ca.mouser.com/catalogviewer.aspx?page=2073 (http://ca.mouser.com/catalogviewer.aspx?page=2073)  The c cell is on the same page and is 8.5Ah

W

The D cells are on this page as well.
A69mopar, I could not open your link without MicroCrap Silverlight, which I refuse to install. :30-

Here is the pdf link for those with the same issue:
http://ca.mouser.com/catalog/catalogUSD/640/2073.pdf (http://ca.mouser.com/catalog/catalogUSD/640/2073.pdf)