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Well,it finally quit working  :37- . I had this game for about 15yrs and the only thing as far as repairs was a contact sticking or burnt bulb ,so guess I'm lucky. As of now,the only thing that powers up is the backboard lights  :99-. So reading Clay's write up on the repair guide  :97-...half of the words I dont even know  :30-.

So,as soon as I grab my volt meter and get some readings I think I'm gonna need some help.

Check the fuse and holder for the 25 or 50 volts used for the relays and scoring motor......

Kirk

check slam tilt on front door  theres nothing you can,t fix on em pin,s or slot,s

Betcha the power supply pin molexes are shot...
Maybe it's time for new receptor pins?
Jiggle the molexes around a bit and see if your game boots up?

Theres  no power supply  back   then transformer only

oh okay...thanks for pointing that out steve... :89-
mine's too modern perhaps...   LOL
I have a 1979 Stern Stars.

Anyways, with randy's machine -
I'm suspecting some type of dirty wire contacts somewhere in there...
perhaps a blown capacitor?

Thanks for the help guys. Just found my meter  :37- (only have 4!!!) Be back soon...

Blown capacitor? These old EM machines are AC relays.there is no power supply

Check the contacts fot the start sequence relay all the tilt relays and even the contacts for the start button and also where the pinball drops in the bottom up to the plunger.  Also woulndnt hurt to manipulate all the contacts on thwe relay banks.  After of course all fuses have been checked.    Good luck  Oh dont ya luv it when they just stop working for no reason at all.  Gives ya something to do.  Long live the EMs  Gotta love em  :30-

If he has no relays or solonoid action its the 24 or 50 volts from the transformer.They are known for bad fuseholders.the pwr transformer has only 2 windings,lighting (6 volt) and 24 or 50 for the rest of ityou can advance the score motor by hand and see if it starts for one cycle.I used to work on EM pins WAY back when...

Ok,a few questions....On the transformer I have the 110 at the bottom,but nothing at the top. In the second piicture you can see the relay/switch that has "reset" wrote on the board. If I press that the lights on the playfield come on. It has a slow blo fuse in the back which shows 110 but the three fuses in the front are getting nothing

I really dont see how I can advance the score  :60-

Is this what your talking about? Back right

The relays under the reels do the score but if your not in game mode they may not work

I did try moving them,nothing

try  turning the score motor under playfd it should run when you turn it by hand

Thanks for the replies Steve. Are you talking about the wheel above in the pictures or the other wheel ? The one above I can not move ,the other one  I can spin(the one with all the cvontacts),but nothing happens

Oh,one other thing. The Tilt is lit up and I know before when it would tilt out the playfield would also go out until you played a credit

Okay, I'm not pinball guy and don't know anything about this game, but if the playfield normally goes out when the machine is in tilt mode and the tilt light is lit, and the playfield lights up when you press the reset (and presumably goes out when you let go), then it sounds to me like you have a short in your tilt circuit. Something is keeping the game in a tilt condition at all times.

Just an observation from reading the thread. :71-

Lets try this again, typed up a in detail directive..and the system lost it....

I used to work on Gottlieb Wedgeheads, 2 and 4 player EM's as well as their electronic machines (Electronic horriblious)
OK....First off you MUST have the 50 volts AC for the relays. I HIGHLY suspect those fuses and holders! TRUST NOTHING! check the fuses and holders with a Ohm meter. Check the transformer output winding with the Ohm meter, then measure it on * AC * with power on the transformer.
You KNOW the primary is working as you have 6 volts AC for the general illumination! comes from the same transformer!
I have NEVER seen the 50 volt transformer fail...EVER! they are bulletproof.When you can measure 50 volts between the common on the transformer and the 50 volt fuseholders then the machine will run or you can troubleshoot it.
Place my bet on the fuseholders/fuses....


Kirk

Wrong...absolutely wrong. The "tilt" is lit due to the Tilt relay relaxed. The "Tilt" light stays on until this relay pulls in..and it cant without the 50 volts...
That circuit is doing what its supposed to do....

 :131- :131- :131-  K+ Kirk


I try to be wrong at least once a day; I have never failed yet. :89-
Stat :31-

I agree with Kirk, no sense moving forward until you know if you have the correct voltages. According to your picture the 115vac comes into the bottom of the transformer, the two voltages come off the top. if the solid black wires in the middle are the center tap, then you should be able to measure the 6vac general illumination from the solid black and the black with white tracer. If that voltage is ok then measure from the solid black to the red wire and you should read 50vac. If you have the voltage there then just physically trace the red wire to its fuse block or distribution point. keep your meterlead on the center tap and follow the 50vac until you lose it and then see why it went away.

Jim  

Thanks for the help Kirk, In the picture of the transformer I have two connections at the bottom(which were the 110V) and three at the top and two whites on the backside...which ones should have the 50V? And when you say ohm out the fuses,I assume you mean the three in the front,right? Only other fuse I see is one near the transformer.

Ok,ignore the above  :96-. Thanks Jim.

not 100% sure which wires have what voltage, but you get the overall picture, if its 25vac versus 50vac  either or  its there or its not.   Bally used two voltages in there EM series, blue=6vac, orange= 50vac, 

Hope you find the problem

Jim

I have a couple of pins from 1976 if you need me to check some things from a working pin  or check some voltage let me know  I also have the schematics which I would imagine should show the voltage s for the transformer  I can dig them out if you want me to.  Art D

I have a Gottlieb "Royal Guard" EM, about the same age, and I have the schematics. It's 25V AC. In the primary circuit are a 5 amp slo-blo fuse, the toggle on/off switch and a bounce switch. Since you can get the lights on, there's not likely to be a problem there.

The three fuses near the door are all 10 amp, one for the playfield 6V, one for the backbox 6V and one for the 25V.

There's a 3 contact relay called the "30V HOLD RELAY". This is off after power up and gets pulled in by the 'S' relay when you drop a coin or press the replay button, after which it holds itself in. Nothing runs without that relay as it cuts off 25V to the whole machine. Either this relay, or the S relay, is most likely the problem - maybe a contact has gone out of alignment or got dirty, or broken. The important contacts (one on the S relay, one on the 30V-HOLD relay) have a red-green wire one side and a red wire the other.

Boy I need to get some paper and start to print all this stuff ..  What a wealth of Information  Im sure I ll need it too someday.   Great site  Greater People 

Here's its entry at the Internet Pinball Machine Database (http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1173)

You can get a schematic and spare parts from Marco Specialities (http://www.marcospecialties.com/index.asp) and other places.

the problem is NOT the transformer or the power source.
trust me, you're barking up the wrong tree. i've been
fixing EMs for 20 years and i have *never* had to replace
a transformer.

most people don't know how to measure AC voltage
in a pingame. they think there's "ground" and they
try and use that as a reference.

but if you're curious it takes 120 volts AC from the
wall and steps down to 25 vac for the solenoids and
6 vac for the lights. there is also a 'high tap' lug so
you can have 28vac in the situation of a low line
voltage (common back in the 1970s.)

but again, that won't be the problem...
I have the schematic if you think it will really
help you. but i suggest you work through
the document at
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm (http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm)

What an incredibly useful and helpful link! Good job Clay.

I still say this is a complete loss of the voltage to run the relays/motors.
It has to be either the 25 volt fuse,fuse holder or a broken wire on the 25 volt source.
The "Hold Relay" does shut off a lot of the power in the cabinet, however it DOES NOT kill the power to the score motor. Gottliebs were famous for
the motor refusing to stop running when the machine was in trouble.
Circuits that stay "Hot"
Coin relay
Credit relay
Tilt Relay
Score motor relay
Score motor thru the off-normal contacts on the switch stack
If none of these respond to being poked by your finger, the 25 or 50 volt circuit is dead.
I STILL think it's the fuseholder.....


Kirk

Clay,I glanced over your guide before I made my first post. Lastnite,I READ your guide..both links  :200- . And I will be setting to free play ,as soon as I get the 26 credits off :3-  . Need to run to the store and I'll be playing with it soon. Thanks for all the suggestions...And I will be checking them out

Thanks fot the links. I was there before when I was working on my X's & O's ,but forgot about it.

ANy signs of life or findings yet Randy?

On the transformer i get 29.6 V from center to red and .01 V from center to blk/white tracer .Checked ohm on the fuse holders and all were good...
When I push the hold relay switch in that is when the playfield lights up

Just checking some things and in the last picture I posted you can see the contact right behind the three fuses. When I lifted that up I heard the door clicking ,and it was the coin chute engaging :103- Anyway,if i hold that contact up and hit the play button the game comes on and I can play  :3- . But,I can only play the ball if I get it out and when I lose that ball it will not pop back out.

Ok,just tried it again. This time the score reset to 600 and the score wheel just keeps spinning and the game will not play,but lights up

That's a drop switch. It should be normally closed (contacts touching), and open briefly by the inertia of the weight when you pick up the end of the game and drop it. We used to get free games at college that way, since the drop would make the coin switches close, so this is an anti-cheat measure. Since you aren't worried about you cheating yourself, you can just solder a bridge across it.

Just bend the contact withOUT the weight on it.
You will find another one inside the coin door...

As he said..not needed in a home gameroom....


Kirk

If I leave it closed,the score wheel just spins and the tilt flashes and the score wheels make a steady clicking sound...which is staying on 600

Well that's ok, you've just advanced to the next step of debugging. The score motor won't stop until all the score wheels are at 0, so your next task is to find out why the 100s wheel is stuck at 6, and fix it.

Oh this is like watching a good Drama isnt it  The suspense is killing me

LOL,Killing you !!!

When I first tried it,the score advanced as I was playing...but never really watched the hundreds...When I tried again,that is when the score reset to zeros,except the 6

Pulled the backboard out and all of the reels are "tight" except for the hundreds,which I can turn easy  :103- ...Playing with that now.


Edit For what its worth. Looking at the coils behind the score reels (each has two) they have a white wrapper around the coils ,except for the two that on the hundreds . Could these overheated or something .

Push the coil armature (plunger) in with your finger and see if the ratchet clicks and steps the wheel when it releases. If the plunger is stuck and won't push in, the coil will draw a lot more current and get hotter than it should. I don't know why they have two coils - are we talking about the same thing?

(http://www.pinrepair.com/em/gtbreel2.jpg)

(image linked from Clay's site (http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1.htm#reels))

Mine looks different,but looking at them I can see all of the plunger on the solinoid were out,except for the hundreds... I hit it with a screwdriver to see if it was frozen and it popped out. The game is playing normal right now  :89- . I'll play a few and see what it does.

Edit After playing about ten games. Once in awhile the ball will not kick out (2 out of 50). Everthing else seems fine so far

Edit After playing a few more games,the hundred wheel is stuck again  :37-....Anyone know off hand where I can get parts at?

Marco specialties  and Happ controls if I recall  correctly for pin parts

Are you sure the 100 point coil is stuck in, or is there voltage (25 volts) holding the coil in? Could be a 100 point switch on the playfield with contacts to close.
A good place for Gottlieb parts is Steve Young from PB Resource. http://www.pbresource.com/. Good luck with your fix! Also as op-bell said, manually push the plunger for the coil in with your finger and make sure the scoring reel rotates smoothly. Watch the contacts on the score reel as you push to see if anything is binding.

Chances are *good* you don't need any parts.
You probably just need to CLEAN the score reel parts.
Now before you go taking it all apart, keep a few things
in mind...

First does the reel have a match or high score disc on it?
this is a bakelite plate that allows the game to know the
score for replay values. if it has this, these are MUCH harder
to work on that a reel that doesn't have it. just a warning...

Look at the switches on a working reel. There's a zero position
switch that closes at zero (actually a pair). And another that
opens. And one that closes at the 9 position. Make sure
those are all cool.

If the reel won't advance well, there is a CHEAT to fix this.
instead of taking the whole thing apart and cleaning it
(which is what you SHOULD do, but it's risky if you've
never done it before), you can cheat. That is, the return
spring that pulls the plunger back and advances the reel.
You can shorten the spring about 3/8". This often 'fixes'
the problem. I can cut the spring and replace it with a
hemostat in about 1 minute. Compared to disassembling
the reel and cleaning, which takes 15 minutes.

(http://www.pinrepair.com/em/decagon1.jpg)

I agree with the fuse holder for the 50V line. no matter what the score motor should run when moved from the home position.
nothing else will work until you get that score motor to run. 50v runs through a carry over switch on the score motor to run it anytime it is not in the home position.

Just seen the new replies since my last post. This is what I have  :103- I can play it fine for a day or so,than the hundred wheel one go back to zero. I turned the game on and off a few times and it went back to zero and played. Its stuck again and I tried the on and off.... no luck. So I was going to look online to order one until I just seen the new post.

Clay,the game does have the match feature ( 00-90) that lights up on the glass,and if it matches the score,free game.  I'll read up on cleaning the reels,also check the other options .

When it does this(coil stuck in) I put something there and gently nudged it and it pops outand will play

Again,thanks for all the help people.

ok you're just really scaring me.
No gottlieb pre-1989 uses 50 volts for ANYTHING.

yes of course it has a match feature. all gottlieb games have
a match feature from 1957 forward (except for 1960s/1970s
Add-a-ball games.)

what i was getting at was only certain reels have the
bakelite disk. i don't know which reel you're having
problems with, so i can't suggest more options.

He said it's the hundreds reel, and it will have the switch disk because it's needed for the high-score replays. At this point I would dismantle it and clean the solenoid, as it sounds like the armature may be dirty and sticky. It might also be that the solenoid frame screws have worked loose so it isn't pulling straight, and I'd check that first since it's less work.

Ok then. High Hand has four reels, plus one "dummy."
So there's a 10s, 100s, 1000s, 10k reels. Only the
10k and 10s reels should have bakelite discs. Again,
the disc confuses things, because it puts more "drag"
on the reels. the bakelited reels need to be very
clean to work right. the non-bakelited reels, well,
not so much.

so his 100s reels should have no bakelite. Again,
simplier, just refer to the picture above on the
parts identification.

to take apart and clean, remove the "E" clip that
holds the reel basket to the assembly. Careful,
as the parts are spring loaded. so don't loose them.
clean everything. do NOT lube upon reassembly,
as it's nylon against steel, which is self lubricating.
use an aseembled reel (like the 1000s) as a key.

if the reel in trouble had a bakelite disk, there's
another step involved...

Yes,the "ones" is a dummy. So it would be the 100's that is messing up. If you look at the picture you can see the solinoid stuck in(100's)

Sorry,wrong picture...here is the one with it stuck

Sorry, don't be scared... I'm just refering to "coil voltage" which is different on many machines, right now I've been working on Bally Bingos. Any way, lots of good info here, should be a simple fix on that score drum. Good luck

ooops, the last post picture shows the 100's relay, not the reel. If this relay is stuck, you may have a stuck switch on the playfield if it is "energized" and cant release it manually, or on the reel itself , there is a switch that is normally closed until the plunger pulls all the way, then a set of contacts opens and allows the relay to relax. Also there may be a mechanical bind or burr on the relay flap itself, run a small flat file between the relay flap and coil armature. keep at it...you'll get it!!!
Tom

Again, no. his last picture is showing the score reel
plunger that is stuck in, not the relay. But it should be asked,
is the 100 relay also energized? because if it is,
there's a couple of reasons that can happen.

as mentioned above, could be a stuck playfield
100 point switch. But there are other things too.

The way this works is this:
1. ball hits 100 point playfield switch.
2. 100 point relay pulls in and STAYS IN.
3. switch on 100 point relay activates
the chime coil, the 100 point relay,
and the 1000 point relay (if the 100
point reel is at '9').
4. As the 100 point score reel plunger
pulls in, it OPENS a switch at it's End
of Stroke (EOS). This switch opens the
circuit to the 100 point relay, and the
100 point relay DE-ENERGIZES.

The reason they do this with the EOS
switch is to ensure a good long pulse
of the score reel plunger. Often the EOS
switch breaks on the score reel. Which is
actually Ok, but it means the score reel
isn't pulsed for as long. This can caused
missed and lower scores, and reels in
the "half way" position.

=========
Another thing to check - when the score
reel plunger is "in", turn the game off.
Does the plunger stay "in?"  If so, you
have a mechanical problem. If it "lets go",
you have an electrical problem.

That should narrow things down a bit.

After I turn it off,it will stay stuck in. Once I free it,it will play fine...Until I let it sit ,than hit the play credit and all the reels reset to zero except for that one.

well if it stays stuck in after power-off,
you have a mechanical problem. meaning
you need to take it apart and clean everything.
probably a new coil sleeve would be good.
but you can use the original if you clean it
well with a qtip and some alcohol. also
make sure the plunger is smooth. sometimes
the bottom edge mushrooms from hitting
the coil stop. grind/file off that mushroomed edge.

Thanks Clay, I'll try it....One other thing,as I'm playing the hundred reel will come close to where its' supposed to be,as the score is increasing. Like if it was on 7 and it suppose to move to the 8,it will just about get all the way to the 8... However, the next score would move normal

often the transition from '8' to '9' and from '9' to '0' are
difficult one for any score reel, because of the added
pressure of the 9th position switch.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't see the additional pages beyond the first -- my comment was already covered.

Just a quick update...
The hundred reel IS the problem. I did as much as I can with fixing it as it is still in place(70%) better. Only way I can pull the unit out is un-solder a sh*t load of wires. >>>It's near the top of my list. Now,since I'm working on this and I have so much help  :88-. Two other things...
Once in a great while as I'm playing...Any vibration(Hitting the flippers,ball hitting something,any vibration really) the points will rack up :103-. Maybe one out of thirty games.
The second I'll post a picture of the part I know I need....Voltage is good.
Again,I thank everone for all the help.

i've never had to unsolder a reel to work on one.
but that's me.

Hi Clay,if you look at the pictures .All of the wires you see at the reels are solderd at the connections. And you cant unhook the other end(like a harness that plugs in)

I think you may be able to dismantle it in place and get the board off without having to unsolder all the wires. At the least, you can unscrew the solenoid from the frame and get that off to clean it.

yes exactly!
there's NO need to desolder anything when working
on score reels. You're just opening a bad box full
of potential problems and errors. put the soldering
iron away!

Sounds like a leaf switch out of adjustment (the leaves are too close together, causing a vibration to close the circuit for a second and advance the score).  When it happens, try to see which score reel is getting advanced (1's, 10s, or hundreds) and then take a real close look at all of the switches that can score the amount that is being scored to see if any are too close together and could potentially be the problem.  Odd that it happens very infrequently, but that's still where I'd start.

It just started doing it,and it may do it 1 out of 30 games. And when it does do it, it racks up points like you were actually scoring while playing. I need to pull it back out and play with it some more  :25- .

I have a high hand ,I rescued it from a leaky storage trailer ,cleaned it up working with glitches .the two top banks of targets  wont pop up on there own , any suggestions?

These banks are individually fused.
check the fuses for each bank. If there's
two coils per bank, there's two fuses
per bank.

if that's not the problem (usually isn't),
then it's a score motor switch problem.
The blades on the motor with BIG
contacts are the ones that control
the bank resets. probably gapped too
far apart or dirty.

 :244-thanks found contact on score motor adjusted it targets go all the way up

Hey,
New member here. 
I just returned from a repair call, High Hand.
Owned one before also.
ANYway, It really sounds like (cliche) "just a fuse".
Really test them with a meter.  Then the holders.
Do not jump.
Jimmiex

Welcome to NewLifeGames jimmiex  :88-

We appreciate your suggestion, but he found the solution about a year ago. Randy0777 narrowed down his problem and you can read that in reply #68 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=5960.msg54412#msg54412), and barrynarron figured out his problem in the post right above yours, and hasn't been back since. :89-

Enjoy the forum.

StatFreak :31-
:nlg-  Global Moderator