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I have a big Bertha Triple cherry machine (500lb pain in the rear) any way when I got it they said it worked but when I got it home I don't see how there was no main board in it only the motherboard. I have quite a few pictures to post with this problem so Ill explain what I have done as I go.
1. the first thing I did was get a main board and some chips and put in it. I was pretty excited I thought I was going to see this BIG mother fire off. but no joy
2 so the next thing I did was check all the connections and I mean all of them there is a reel driver board case hanging under the reels and connectors on both sides and 1 end of that, the one on the end is a power for the fan.
more with the next set of pictures

3. then I changed the reels around to see if the 41 err would move, but it stayed put,
4. so I dropped the reel controller box and moved the boards #1 to #3 and #3 to #1  still no joy
more to come with more pictures

5, well none of that seemsd to work so I moved the wire harnesses around 1to 2 and so on
6 as a last ditch I changed out the mother board still no joy also tried a different main boadd too

well I have run out of Ideas so I am bring this problem to greater minds to help solve I been working on this over a month off and on so can any one offer aney Ideas?
thanks
Goldfinger  :37- :7- :7- :7-
will post a couple more pics

a couple more pics

2v more pics forgot to post the reels hehe

Well - a 41 is a reel tilt. First Reel. (42 is second, 43 third).

Until you clear this error the 41 may not move. I once had a real bi**h of a time getting this error to clear on one of my machines.

Since this is a new-2-you machine and it sounds like its never worked the first thing you should check is to see if the reels are stiff when you put the power on.
When the power is off they should be loose and free flowing. If they are not stiff then we have other issues to discuss - so post back on this point.

Assuming your reels are stiff.....
First step is to get the S+ manual and follow the steps to clear the 41.
I believe you Open the door, press the white test button then turn the jackpot reset key, and close the door. But its been a while, so again I stress to check the manual.

If the error does not clear the first time - try again.

If the error still does not clear you can run a CLEAR CHIP through the machine. In my case this did NOT fix the problem for me. But it is the recommended procedure.

What did work for me was that I had a 1271 game chip in mine. I changed to an older series 731 chip. This caused the machine to come up with some 62 errors and basically rebuilt the CMOS structure. The game played fine. I then went back to the 1271 and all was good again.

Our buddy stout also documented in technicolor a series of resistors on the S+ MPU board that control the reel mech. In older boards one of these can go and the error will never move (or go away). Until the resistor is replaced. I think there were 5 resistors as technically the S+ can have 5 reels - I have never seen a 5 reel version, seen a couple of Ozz based 4 wheels. Anyways since 2 of the resistors have never been used one can be moved to replace the bad one if you can't get a new resistor easily.

Here is the post regarding this topic that I mentioned.
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=4423.0 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=4423.0)

I seem to remember some other members posting that they solved stubborn reel tilt errors by using a clear chip.  The S+ doesn't have a ton of settings to have to re-do, and while I agree that the clear chips are generally overused, given your troubleshooting thus far (and great stuff, by the way), I think that a clear chip would be a good thing to try at this point.

The good news in what you've posted is that there is no indication that the reel itself is physically bad, as you got the same error no matter which reel was hooked up to the machine (unless all three are bad, but I would consider that to be unlikely).

For clarification, there are two main boards that run the machine (plus, in your case, apparently a separate reel driver board for the oversized reels): the motherboard which is fixed in the machine (it can be removed but is typically left mounted to the bottom of the machine), and the MPU board which is the removable board that is in the silver tray with the black round handle.

That said, which board was missing when you got the machine -- the motherboard, or the MPU board?  I'm guessing that the MPU board is the one that was missing.  Is the replacement a known good board, or one you're assuming is good?  If it's not known for sure to be good, do you have a known good board you can borrow for testing purposes (like from a working S+)?

Do you have a clear chip you can use?

(As a complete aside, is that a Supreme display in the top box?)

I know you said that you switched the reels around Bob, but I'm wondering about the
bubbled up look of your reel strips especially on the first two reel baskets...
They don't look like they're on the baskets nice and tight.
Could they be touching the reel glass?

After opening the door, turning reset key, does the 41 clear before you close back the door?
Or does the 41 stay on the display continuously?

Another that causes weird reel error codes to pop up is not related at all to the reels...
I know that doesn't make sense but one time I got rid of the stubborn 41 error
by replacing the coin-in optic boards under the coin comparator?
I am still to this day stumped by that one.
However, that swap solved my 41 error.
 
You only learn these weird offbeat fixes by constantly repairing and tinkering with them.

As far as the bank of resistors on the MPU boards...those 5 resistors are 10K I believe.
Radio Shack still carries them...I don't fool around any more -
I just unsolder all five and replace all five....costs like maybe $2...LOL
The values of the resistors over time, go bad....especially on machines that were heavily used
and "ON" all the time 24/7.
Those resistors "held" the reels in place
("stiff" reels like Jay was talking about)
when nobody was playing the machine.

ADD>>>Knagl likes that supreme display in that top box! hint, hint...LOL

My experience with the Mini Bertha reel issues were usually in the reel driver board underneath the reels.  I know you said you switched out boards etc... From what I remember,  there were 3  LARGE resistors   in there... and usually one of them was broken...  maybe try to put a meter on them. 

Great info guys and yes that is a supreme display and it works really good when you power it up (probably worth more than the whole dam machine hehe)
for got to mention that in step 2.5) I did use a clear chip with no luck it cleared and still a reel error.
the MPU board is the one that was missing and I put the replacement one in another S+ and it fired right up.
one of the large resistors on the reel driver board for reel 2 had come loose and I soldered it back in, but did not put a meter on it, I should have gotten pictures but didn't.
it is weird the reel error comes up almost as soon as you power the machine up, when you turn the power on the 3 reels start to move slowly only for a few seconds then the 41 code
the mother board was in the machine when I got it so after I tried every thing else I could think of I changed that also with no luck.
thinking about it the coin in optic was missing and I installed a another one. I only assumed it was good. Installed the entire holster.
I don't have any schematics for the reel driver boards to check them any further and no replacement ones to try out.
I thought about hooking up an entire different reel shelf with reels but don't know where to tin them in probably into the mpu board some where.
Thanks every one for your input and K+ to ya
Bob

I will power up and see if the reels are stiff but I think I checked that and they were but cant remember.
Bob

See if you can get it to do another reel error code while the door is open.
When you turn on the power switch, hold the 2nd reel so it cannot do it's "maiden" spin.
You should have an error code "42".
Then it should be a matter of turning the reset key, then closing the door.
If neither of these happen and should you still have the 41 error -
then the reel driver board (under the reels) is next as a suspect.

If all three reels spin a little bit before it gives the reel tilt, then they're all getting power (and would be "stiff").  I guess my next best guess would be something with the reel driver board(s), but that's foreign territory to me.

About all I can do is offer words of encouragement at this point, and say that your troubleshooting (and description on here of what you've done) is simply top notch.  You've done everything I would have done and then some, and posted here in great detail for the members to be able to help you.  I sure hope you get it up and running, otherwise you have a really nice looking large boat anchor on your hands.  :5-

did you attempt a reel test?

W

Goldfinger,

You have to have SP chip designed to handle the big reels. I have one available

Ben

Nice looking machine G.F. It's big but dam would like to have it.

Looks like Ben might have a solution to your problems..... fingers crossed......GOOD LUCK

Well Ive got the chip and PSR and am going to install it now will let you know in a short while yes thanks to Ben
Bob

Well with chips and tools in hands I went to the shop to work on the mini Bertha reel problem. I installed the chip in a 16mhz board and plugged it in to a  S+ machine I had setting on the bench and turned on the power the reels spin backwards in that machine so .I powered down and pulled the mpu board ant took it out to the main shop and plugged it in , and no 41 error but a 65-1 error when I pushed self test button     Nothing happened  it was like the button was broken so I figured it might be that it was a 16Mhz board so I repeated the above process with a 10Mhz board and same thing the self test switch didnt work on the 65-1 error.
So I got my VOM meter and tested the switch it was good so I traced the switch wires all the way down to the mother board and tested the wires they were good to.
next step I changed out the mother board again still no self test switch 3 hours later I am back here typing this out for some help. I no longer have a clue as to what to do.
before when the self test switch didn't work an another machine I had forgotten to install the door optic I checked the optics there all there and the switch has worked in the past few days.

here are a couple of pictures of the mother board installation (could I have wired it up wrong?) it looks like they can only plug in to one place.
Bob

65-1, can you turn your Jackpot Reset Key (with the door open). See if the error changes.

Bob...
If I remember correctly...
if you get a 65-3, you turn the key and get a 65-1
THEn you push and hold the test button for 3 seconds or until the display goes blank..then close the door


Kirk

Goldfinger,

Try it with a 10 meg board

Ben

I tried a 10 and 16 meg board neither would allow the switch to work and when I tried them in a regular S+ it worked but the reels spin backwards
Bob

I'm sure you tried already but in case you didn't...hold the test switch a little longer like about 7 or 8 seconds...
don't worry about hearing a "ding" or not...the "ding" sound doesn't always works due to bad speakers or wires or the volume is turned too low.
This machine doesn't seem like you can swap boards too much because it uses a pretty rare chip that you got from Ben.
Please make a good back up of that later on after you get this thing up and running.
I think your wiring is okay...disconnect any mechanical meter plugs and fluorescent lights for now.
Keep the wiring simple as possible until you get it to boot up.
Later on you can plug in the meters and lights.
There's a little black molex on the mother board that can be confusing...I always get it wrong because it fits into 2 possible places on the motherboard.
I think it's a 5 or 6 pin black molex. I'm not near my machine at the moment but maybe someone else will chime in here and help you with that connector location before I get back to your thread.
Another way of getting rid of "sticking" 65-1 codes is to do a clear then put back in the SP and give yourself a clean plate and see if the 65-1 comes back.
Maybe you can try one more MPU board swap just to see what code pops up too.

Thanks every one for your help.  :131- :131- :131-
here is a pic of the motherboard schematic can you tell me what connectors cab be unplugged and the machine still boot up and what they go to.
I want to try and eliminate any thing that is not needed to boot up to see if somthing is causing problems with the test switch.

Thanks
Bob

Bob   if memory serves me correctly I think the only connector that could be put in another slot was the meter plug, and it would disable all the displays, the game would function, however no displays.  J-1 and J-3  have to plugged in, they have door optics info., J-10 has cabinet optics info, J-7 reel info(trace the harness that would plug into the back of the box underneath the reels) the meter and bill acceptor can be left undone. I could look this evening and be more specific. J-8= power, J-4 card reader?, J-9 sas?
 I was wondering if you could hook up some regular S+ reels . e.g. take the harness out of a S+ along with its three reels and set it up temp. to see if you can get the game to play, then at least you would know that the boards and harness' are good. (eliminate the large reels and their driver boards) probably will have to go to a standard SP for test purpose.

It also looks like you have additional power supplies that were not on a S+.


Jim 

Hope this helps ya!
Click on "image.002" link underneath to download diagram and enlarge it>>>

ADD>>> I made a small mistake...anybody see it?  :96-

Some Joy, this morning I went and replugged the 10mhz board back in and the button worked and the slot booted and played a few times, then I hit a small jackpot 15 coins and got a 3300 error no mater what I did I could not get this to clear so as a last resort I pulled the board and ran 123 clear on it. now were are right back to the button not working and a 61 error.  :103- :103- :103-

bunker   you left out the eeprom!

Jim

LOL :72- I mistakenly put a RED X right on top of it huh? lol
It's not even a header - it's the 24C04 8-pin eprom :72-

Good Catch Jim!!!  KUDOS PLUS TO YA!


That was only a common hopper error ("3300") that was telling you that the hopper was empty.
To clear that did not require a "Clear" chip, all that was needed to be done was
to open the door, throw some quarters in the hopper to
get it at a level higher than the lowest contact bolt,
then close the door for it to go away.
I'm suspecting that you might have some connection problems with the door optics wiring now.

Indeed, the 3300 was telling you that the hopper was empty or perhaps not plugged in, and the game was attempting to pay from the hopper.

You don't need to get coins higher than the contact bolt to clear that -- you just have to get some coins in there and make sure you have working hopper optics.

Regardless, you've run a clear again on it and now can't get past the 61.  Are you pressing and firmly holding the self-test button for 5 to 10 seconds to try and get a 61-1?  If it won't move to a 61-1, at this point I'd check the wiring of the self test switch since it seems to be intermittently working.

As a reference, here's a list of common S+ errors and the steps to resolve them:
http://www.newlifegames.net/igterrors/

since you are using a known good main and motherboard and tested the switch, i'd look for loose or dirty/corroded connections throughout the harness, and even at the motherboard.  Try holding the reset switch as you move the harnesses around.

Thanks,
Wayne

...CAN'T GET PAST THE 61...AFTER PRESSING THE WHITE TEST BUTTON....   Here's  a  "try this"... out of  RT Field....

   I ran into this on rare occassions... couldn't get past the 61.  Checked the BV  cash can door micro switch... wires are tied together..Checked OK...  good door optics... Checked OK...

Now... for some off the wall reason...  I unplugged the  'cabinet' (door)  optic...    then pressed the white test button....  DING !    61...1   came up.   
 re-connected the  cabinet / door optic   and closed door... turn  key sw ... and proceeded on...

It worked... don't know why...but it did.

Hmm...that sounds like a logic error in which the signal in
that particular line/wire was locked in a high state.
When the optics were broken (momentarily disconnected) the wire
holding the power de-energized, thus shaking the logic back to a low state
and allowing the microprocessor to run its course...
follow me? It really sounds like a bad diode.
That happens with pinball machine flippers - they "stick".

An cabinet-side receiver optic bulb is really a form of a diode in which it really is designed
for power to go only in one direction.
Like a coil relay, if the relay 's coil is energized, it will close another electrical path,
but when the power is released from the coil, the line re-opens thus breaking the circuitry.
In some electronics, if the diode is bad, the coil remains energized and the relay never reopens -
it stays stuck closed.
Another way to release the energized coil is to have the power bleed off into a capacitor.
Does slot machines have these types of components? Of course they do,
but to pin-point the EXACT cause of which particular diode or relay that is bad - is another
piece of beautiful science called a bench-type board diagnostics tester...as far as I know,
only Joey has one that will test bad boards but I don't believe that he has ever found
the harnesses and cables needed to get the darn thing up and running.
I'm only guessing that the problem lies somewhere on your MPU board in some component somewhere.
Only, guys like Channelmaniac, Benchtechbill, Op-Bell, Sommer and others like CFH (clay)
have the component testing knowledge, as far as I know with tools such as oscilloscopes.
I only have a basic hand tool such a logic tester probe which detects high/low states of simple electrical circuitry.

Bob   I checked my schematics tonight, here is a run down on all the connectors on the motherboard:
J-1  needed  optics, door info paylines etc.
J-2  card cage  not needed
J-3  needed  
J-4  dcs  not needed
J-5  Meters  (7 pin that can be plugged into J-14 by mistake, will knock out displays, game can be played)
J-6  Bill Acceptor  needed
J-7  Reels info  needed
J-8  Power  needed (bunker, here is another one you "x"ed out)
J-9  sds  not needed
J-10  needed,
J-11  Bell not needed
J-12  Progressive  (  if it applies)
J-13  Printer  not needed
J-14  Reels (backlit---wonder if they ever made a board for this)  not needed

Jim

Boy was I ever misleading with that LOL...I tried to make it for Bob as fast as I could to post it...
I will make some corrections to it in the morning...
however, I really like your list better than my stupid diagram...LOL
Anyways, It was fun to do.

Did you get rid of the 41 error bertha are bad about burning out transistors on the reel driver boards . Q1 To Q9  look at the heat shield over each transistor if it looks to be a gold color might be bad over heated or burnt out . Have seen Q1 to be be bad on all three boards . Q1,Q3,Q5,Q7,Q9 Are TIP125. Q2,Q4,Q6,Q8, are TIP120. hope this helps . ............Ron (SLOTS OF FUN)  :88-

Also check the power supplys going to the reel driver boards the first one behind the hopper is a 5 vdc . The 2nd one is a 15vdc supply the one with the red output plug . The 15volt supply will have 6 RED + wires and 6 BLACK - wires .  :88- (SLOTS OF FUN)

Thanks Guys as far as the 3300 error the hopper had over 100 dollar tokens in it it hit a 15 jackpot and spit out 15 coins 6 times then got a 3300 erroe I placed them all back in the hopper and even tried a couple of other dollar hoppers that I had, turned the reset key a few times opened and closed the door 10 or 15 times so I pulled the board out and put it in a working S+ and it booted and ran only backwards i took the board back to bertha and pluged it in  it said that my reel prom was bad so I am here looking for another triple cherry 3 coin to put in to it (cant seem to find it tho) so will take the night off from it and stare a new in the morning. I will check the power supply and other items that have recommended here and see where it goes.
I want to thank all of you for hanging in there with me till the end, it is a machine and its not going to beat me!!!!

did you swap the door optics?  it could affect both codes.  It needs to see the door closed

W

Another thing I've noticed is that every time you do a 123 ram clear -
your test switch won't allow you to get into 61-1.
Have you tried a different clear chip? It's possible that particular
clear chip you're using doesn't do it's job completely?
Try pulling off the cabinet-side door optic for a couple of seconds,
re-connect the molex back together to the harness and see if your test switch gets you to 61-1.

                                                     and/or

Try and older SP 731 chip...those older chips don't have the 61-1 error code built into them...
If the 61 shows up, then touching the test button  shoots you straight into boot up mode!
This is NOT a fact but it seems to be something I've just found out about.
I will try to verify this phenom on "Young Frankenstein" in the morning... :79-
I think it's just a freak accident one of our members noticed that but I think
it may of just been an oversight on my part. I want to test on both the SP050 and SP605
as well as the SP731 to verify this.
In the SP731 PSR, there's definitely mention of the dreaded 61-1 error code and what to do about it.


Good luck man! Let us know what happens...
                                                       

I haven't touched the door optics but will give them a look over in the morning
I did use 2 different clear chips the one in the beginning was just a standard clear the one I used yesterday was a deep clear so I was told. by Ben
will give update tomorrow, with as much trouble as Ive had with this one I should hook up my web cam and make it live so every one can chime in real time hehe
thanks every one
Bob

This is now up to over 40 replies and counting...LOL
You should start your own network television show... :96-

I've just been watching from the sidelines and one thought crossed my mind. With his problems seeming to cascade from one to the next could this be a polished up Katrina machine? Hidden corrosion in differant plugs and switches causes these types of problems in other types of electronics where you chase one problem to the next. Just a thought from a bystander, good luck!

Your way of thinking is similar to mine...
I often check as well, for continuity wiring various wiring when a slot, or pinball machine starts acting nuts...LOL
I'm sure Bob's jiggled every connection there is though... :72-

You guys have been talkin' a lot about door optics, might be worth looking at commmon bend points for signs of cracks in wire insulation. Especially if they're wrapped with loom protectors. He's checked wire continuity, how about shorts? Throw a meter in diode scale across the leads and see if it tones. That might explain unplugging door optics transmitter to get a reset. Sleuth work is what makes electronics fun! :3-

I had thought I posted the link referring to the door optics causing the 61-1 to not clear, but looked and it wasn't ther.

 Here it is now http://result1.info/myslotnotes/IGT%20Error%2061.htm (http://result1.info/myslotnotes/IGT%20Error%2061.htm)

I have also seen this same suggestion elsewhere.

W

I tried your link but it wouldn't work.
I keep getting "Page Not Found" error message.
Maybe it's this link?>>>

http://www.myslotnotes.com/IGT%20Error%2061.htm (http://www.myslotnotes.com/IGT%20Error%2061.htm)

Just an update I placed the new chip in the mpu board and plugged it in got a 61 error and the reset switch didn't work so I unplugged the door optic on the cabinet and bingo the switch worked (go figure) but now I am back to the original 41 error but the reels are bouncing like drifting not wanting to stay in place not much but enough to see the movement. so I am headed back to the shop to give it another round, ant one wanting to give a call for the next couple of hours to lend a hand feel free ### ###-#### (I will edit this # out when I get back)
thanks every one
Bob

Can your telephone handle a multiple conference call from like about 40 people?
We all could give you suggestions and drive you nuts! LOL :72-
We'd really like to watch this live on NLG... :96-

(just kidding...  :200- )            I'll check up on you later!...

Hey Stout, MSN via video conf like you did with me!

That actually didn't work too well from home...lol
All you saw was my fat arse...LOL
What we really needed was an extra hand like a buxom blond video camerawoman... :72-

Well Iam back at it for a little while am going to try to trace down some of the wiring and look for breaks and lose wire. I will report back
thanks
Bob

Well I am back on this project will be posting new info soon
on a side note is there any way to bypass the optics or jumper them together do that you can have the door open?
Goldfinger

Yes,
Jump green wire from door to cabinet green wire.
the other 2 wires, whatever color they may be, jump those as well,
but do NOT cross them or the receiver optic on the cabinet will blow out.
The emitter optic on the door can be checked with
a camera but you cannot check a receiver optic.

You can place a cherry switch or some other kind of "Off/On" switch on
the green wire so it works the same way as a Bally5500.
Pull out the plunger on the cherry switch and the
MPU is fooled into thinking the door is "closed".

Sorry to "revive" this thread but I saw a Big Bertha IGT Triple Diamond machine that was in the Old Sled Works in Duncannon, PA. They have an old pin arcade in there and this machine sits in the front. The plaque on it says."........this machine cost 50 thousand dollars when new. We are selling for 2500 dollars, it doesn't take in or payout any money making it legal to own" All it is is a big S+ but it was fun to play. I don't know about the 2500 dollars though...............very large and cumbersome, etc.

There are a lot of places that would pay YOU to haul it away...... assuming I could get it past my wife (which is improbable), getting it to my basement would be impossible.
Other than it provides a unique bit of history..... It would be hard to get glass / reel kits etc
The good news is that unlike some machines that attracted a lot of play these machines would likely have fewer hours on them than others.
$2500 is pretty expensive....For that kind of coin you could own a pretty nice vision, gameking or S2000 (or perhaps all 3).

Rheo, my first thought upon reading your post was to suggest that you tell the guy to move the decimal two digits to the left. :79-
My second thought was that you tell him to make it THREE digits... :208- :208- :208- :208-
I'd say that if you have cheap transportation, plenty of room, he takes $25 for it, AND it works, then go for it.

SF :31-

They have a bunch of older pins in there and they are all working and accept quarters. Good fun. It was cool seeing the Triple diamond in there. If I had the room it would be fun.