New Life Games Tech Forums

Hey all,

I'm considering diving into the world of a progressive display for my RWB Big Times Pay and Game King.  I didn't post in the progressive boards because I have no idea what I need, where to start, or if it's even possible with my machines. 

Any help and suggestions would be appreciated to get started.

Thanks,
Jason

You'd be better off with just the game king, especially with BTP RWB, I think the top award odds on it are once per cycle.. 1:10,000,000

It is possible for both.
You have 2 options either use IGT or some Mikohn hardware.
If you want to use IGT hardware you will need a Spectrum II, harnesses, and key chip for whichever machine you wish to be progressive.
If you want to use Mikohn hardware you will need Cham II+ or newer with 2.07 or 2.11 (I cant remember what is suitable for the newer S2000 (I use 2.07 in mine 502 board and SG 363)
also needed is the key chip, wiring and a computer to program the cham II+ (you can make fancy messages with the cham II+, also possible with the Spectrum II, ir you have right version of Game software in the Game King, whether the S2000 can do custom messages I havent found a way to enter them.

I pulled my Spectrum II from my Topper and installed a spare Cham II+ so it can do the custom messages.

I would highly recommend the Mikohn Cham II+ due to the fact it is easy to do custom messages once you get the hang of programming and d/l them to the Cham II+.
IT only takes me few seconds to update the Cham II+ if I change themes on either my S+ or S2000, I dont have to grab a key or set chip to change the Cham II+.
Whereas you have to use a Key Chip to adjust them for the Spectrum II
Cham II+ hardware is easier to come across than Spectrum II also.

Foster you may know this.. or not.

Did IGT make like a mini photon for the S2000 or will the S+ photon work in S2000?

That's an excellent question Brianzz!
I think I have some documentation on the mini-photon.
The voltage on the photon harness pin-out will give me a clue as
whether it could be compatible with the S2000.

I will check my stuff in the morning and try to post an answer.
One thing that's highly possible, the harness will have to be modified or
at least an adapter needs to be constructed.

Another option to ponder is the use of a CON1 or CON2 LINK controller.

The benefit of a link controller is that it can be used with multiple machines.

You then have the option of using multiple ChamII's (non plus) to display your progressive amounts in the machine or in a topper.
The non plus version of the ChamII is not a progressive controller but rather just a display driver.
You can also then hook up supremes which are larger over head versions of a display.
The supremes can get graphic download files (like coins falling, flames, other annimations etc) and the progressive amount or messages is layered overtop,

The CON1 connects to a Cham1 (also known as a LED5) for the small displays or to a Cham44 (LED4) for the larger displays.
The CON1 is much cheaper than the CON2 however it can't drive the supreme displays which means no annimations etc.

The ChamII+ and the CON2 both can communicate back to your video poker and display the jackpot award amounts on the screen.
With a CON1 you need a another box called a gateway to drive this same interface.

The other thing I should point out about progressives is that you can have up to 4 levels of progressives so the top 4 hands of a video poker can each have their own progressive.

Thanks for the input so far guys...I appreciate it.  I'm still trying to get my head around it.  Both of my machines have ticket printers and to the right of the printers, a black plexiglass insert that fits perfectly.  Are there displays that are "drop in" or do they require a hacksaw, blow torch, tape, and glue?  If so, I probably won't pursue it.  Ballpark cost?  I have poked around in the menus and could probably figure out the progressive setup, and with your expertise, the wiring/plugs.  Anyway, I would be happy with something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Memk-P7k0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Memk-P7k0)

Not sure if they were S2000 specific, but Harvey's Casino in Lake Tahoe had a row of White Star S2000 machines (six of them I think) and they all had mini's installed in the award glass.

I seem to recall seeing some of those in S2000's in the past, wasn't sure if they were the same for the S+ or not. I'll have to look around in my S+ and my S2000 to see what I can find out in the morning.

Food for thought, Jason, on your Game King.  It's not as pretty (because it wouldn't have the external display), but you can configure progressives for your video poker games.  For example, on my Game King, I have all of the Royal Flush awards for the $0.25 poker games tied to a common internal progressive.  They all started at $1000.00, and as any of the $0.25 poker games get played, the amount progresses upwards (and is indicated on the screen in all of the $0.25 poker games).  I tied a lot of the similar 4 of a kind awards together, too.  No new hardware or software required -- just some programming on your GK screen.

In the S+ Field Service Manual, there's a couple of pages describing progressive harnesses.
I've posted the pin outs below which should be similar to the mini-photon harness.
What is needed is the schematics of the ASSY NO.75107100 and
ASSY NO.75109510 mini-photon progressive driver boards.
I will also look around for the S2000 wiring schematics on
progressive harness and see what similarities exist.
Click on the page below to enlarge...>>>

I haven't had a chance to get downstairs today, one of the other PC's is having thermal issues, so I've been playing with fans most of the day

That's okay...My bloodhound nose is on the trail... :96-
It looks like 13volts going out on pin #5.
I'm not sure what the mini-photon needs for voltage just yet.
If I don't find any documentation on the mini-photon voltage needs, then I'll have to
take a multi-meter to it and see what's happening physically on those wire lines.
So far as from what I can see - both connection points are the same number of wires:>  6
The Mikohn harness only needs 3 wires but there are 6 outputs coming from the S2000 - those
outputs are almost the same except for the the 2nd ground pin location.
Click on diagram to enlarge. >>>

Someone posted awhile back they had an actual manual for one of the photon progressives, I've never seen a manual for one, didn't know one existed.

You should be able to find the molex in the S+ manual that the progressive board plugs into to get the voltages out

I made a post a few weeks ago that you can sort of find a "Manual" for
the mini-photon progressive display settings in certain SP PSR sheets.
It would be nice to have the whole manual on it though!  :89-
If anyone has a copy of it, can you please drop it off on my front porch? Thanks!
These are just the settings for option settings in Progressive #1, Selection <9> I believe it was
from some PSR sheet I got it from...
Click to enlarge unless you have Superman Vision...lol>>>

The S2000 can not drive the S+ progressive displays aka Mini-photon (7 segment display) or the S+ Spectrums.
The S+ progressive connector in the top box (15 pin) is almost a duplicate of the signals that drive the player display the difference being the STB signal line.
STB0 goes to player display and STB1 goes to the progressive connector in top box (could be 1 and 2 respectively)
There could be a 3rd Strobe line in the top box as well.

The S2000 uses Netplex to drive the S2000 Spectrums.
IF there is a mini-photon for the S2000 I suspect it would use netples as well.

The progressive output on the motherboard and comm board (you can use either one) in the s2000 is similar to the S+ motherboard progressive (I can swap the cham II+ boards between the 2 without any issues.
We can thank the techs that work for the gaming boards for it. The S2000 progressive port probably supports a few more protocols than most home users would need.

The S+ mini photon and player display
have 3 signals that go to it.
Data, STB and clock. (they are inverted)
they go into an serial to parallel converter to the driver IC's
8 bits are used for each digit.
Upper 4 bits are for the position, lower 4 bits is the value displayed.

If you have access to Fays S and S+ book it goes over it in some detail (even has the schematics for the player display and the S progressive board.
which can be used in the S+.
I took a spare player display and tested the progressive output from the top box connector. it works just that upper 4 digits shows in winner paid and the lower ones show in the credits display.
I built the S progressive board for my S+. from the exact same parts the only thing I had to do was use individual resistors for the resistor packs they used.
 
John##### was selling the S progressive board. it was the board with the 5 or 6 pin molex connector and the 2 20 pin blue connectors on it. and about 11 or so IC's
In fact I think his site still has them on it.

I suspect if you can find them and they are compatible with the S2000 (or the progressive controller that drives them is)
look for the Mikohn mini-photon displays and drivers
I got one a few years ago but could not find any docs on it. it was missing the firmware ROM like many of the IGT units.

Great post Foster!
I agree that the mini-photon may not work from the Netplex Distribution board that in the topbox area...
My goal was to see if it could possibly work off of the motherboard/backplane
board progressive connector at location J15?
Or not, because of the inverted signals needed from the Data, STB, and Clock lines on a mini-photon?

All you need to invert a signal all you need is a hex inverter. Both the S+ player display and the mini-photon drivers has one on them.

Since I do not know all the protocols that progressive port on the S2000 support but I doubt it outputs a serial data signal
It is possible it does, but who knows what G.C. technical spec would list it and if IGT implemented that one. Since IGT has SAS.
Maybe the mikohn manuals may give us a clue.
 
It could be possible to get a bank of S2000 to have the S+ mini photon behind the award glass but you would need to use a con2 and related hardware to capture coin in and talk to the S2000 and least one S+.
you would then parallel the output and supply voltage from the S+ to each S+ mini photon in each S2000.
if needed you could use voltage supply about 9V to drive the display driver but I am not sure that would be wise or not.
The S2000 would signal the con2 and the con2 would update the S+ progressive values.
Same as my Cham II+ in S+ does now when a mini-photon is connected to the S+.

Excellent information Foster. K+ to you. :3- :3- :3-

Has anyone ever figured out the actual cost to link up each machine ? What is the initial cost to buy everything needed and then the cost per machine to link them ? For the non technical guys who only know how to clear error codes and put in quarters, how difficult is it to set up a progressive display and link the machines together ? Does anyone live close to the tri state area of NJ/NY/CT who would be willing to set up a progressive and tell us what to buy ? Thanks,

Frank A

I've hooked up 4 S+ machines to a CDS ProLink and a single large display for about $300.
Not only does the progressive display increment like it should -
I get the added benefit of seeing exactly how many coins are going
into each individual machine on my desktop computer screen.
The costliest part being the CDS Prolink of course.
Wiring and connectors wasn't too, too bad.

If I were to do it via the Mikohn con2's,  think it would cost about somewhere in the same ballpark.
It's the wiring harness that's the most difficult to make...that's a lot of very long wiring involved!
I have a complete Mikohn harness that I picked up from somewhere that can handle up to 20 S+ machines
connected to a single con2, but I've never attempted to hook it all up.

 

Sounds like you'd better get to work, young man!  :208- :208- :208- :208- :208-

 :72- Uh uh...No way!   :60-

It would be a nightmare!  :96-

By the way, how many machines did you want to hook up to a progressive display sign FrankA.?
And what kind...S+'s or S2000's?

Here is an idea of what I have put together and the rough costs
In addition to the picture I show here I also have a Mini Photon (behind the pay glass standalone igt progressive) for each of the slots.
In a real casino you would never see a mix of Poker and Slots being connected together due to the different jackpot hit frequencies but electriclly there is no reason why you can't
........ and the gaming jusdiction in my basement has very lax rules (LOL)


S+ SLOT =============+                                                     + =============LED5====== Small Meter located in Slot #1
                                           |                                                      |
S+ SLOT =============+                                                     + =============LED5====== Small Meter located in Slot #2
                                           +==========CON1==========+
S+ SLOT =============+                                                     + =============LED5====== Small Meter located in Slot #3
                                           |                                                      |
PE+ Video Poker ========+                                                      + =============LED4====== Large 1 x 2 Overhead display
                      |                                                                           |
                      |                                                                           + =============LED4====== Massive 2 x 8 Overhead display
                      |                                                                           |
                      |                                                                           +=============Gateway====+
                      |                                                                                                                                |
                      +------------------------<<< Data line to drive on screen display of Jackpot value---<<<--------------+


CON1        $110
LED 5        $ 55 (includes meter)
LED 5        $ 55 (includes meter)
LED 5        $ 55 (includes meter)
LED 4        $ 85
LED 4        $ 85
Gateway    $ 45
Large 1x2  $ 200
Large 2x8  $ 700
Mini Photon $25
Mini Photon $25
Mini Photon $25

Total         $1465

What these costs don't include is that I have spares for both the LED4 & LED5 controllers
I spent about $200 on the plexi glass front for the custom cabinet I built for the 2 x 8
I spent about $300 in wood for the cabinet that I used for the same.

At some point in the future I will have a topper for the PE+ with a LED5 display in that as well.

My 8 machines are S+ machines. Some older ones. Is it as difficult as it sounds here ? Again, I am a novice at electronics. The mechanical stuff I can figure out on my pin games and I can run wires and solder connectors, but when you start talking about most of the stuff on schematics and voltage I get lost. I have three multimeters and use them all for continuity and diode testing, but after that I get lost and my eyes glass over. Is it worth doing ?

Unless you are trying to make something work in a platform that it is not designed for then its pretty much plug and pray......

The Mini-Photons (Behind the glass progressive) are a board that simply plug into a small square connector. This covers you for power and everything else.
Using the 731 chip you can set the values just from the self test button. IF you are running a newer 1271 you need to use a Set 90 to set the values.
In my opinion these are pretty boring as a progressive as they just a have value, don't flash, change colors or display messages. I use them as a second level progressive.

The Con1 simply uses 2 wires to connect to the mother board of each S+ (not the removeable MPU board). There is a 4 pin connector - the pins are Coin, Gnd, Data, Not used.
Depending on what model of the CON1 you get you will have been 5 and 33 pins. The end pin is the common and it runs to the GND of each slot. Pin 1 then goes to the Coin pin on slot 1, Pin 2 goes to the Coin pin on slot 2 etc etc.  (See my diagram up top). The only power here is the AC wall wart that you use to power the Con1.
To program the slot you need to use the S+ menu to choose progressives and then tell it that it has a LINK controller.
To program the con1 you need a PC, serial cable and the program called PSP.

The display controllers (LED4 / LED 5)  connect to the CON1 via a 2 wire cable. There are some dip switches on these units that allow you to change what is displayed. You can force messages only, values only (or any 1 of the 4 possible progressive values) or put it in the standard mode and it then takes its info from the CON1. There is a good manual available for this so no real surprizes. The controller board sits on top of its power supply, Standard AC plug for these. No power adapters.

My massive 2 x 8 sign was a bit more tricky as it uses 4 power supplies and a ton of ribbon cable but still not rocket science.