New Life Games Tech Forums

Hey guys,

I'm sure I'm about to get hit by a 'wtf' locomotive, but I was wondering if anybody has a tutorial on soldering the watch style batteries onto a board like I have on my S2000 and Game King.  I'll admit it, I'm afraid of soldering.  I did it on my old Jackpot Jungle, but I think I got lucky and almost ruined my board.  The soldering iron that I have is ancient, and I think I was going about it in about the worst way possible.  I fear the day that these start to go and even thought it would be worth it to pay the freight and labor to send to an expert that loves that sort of thing....yeah, yeah, I know it sounds weak on my part, but I'm more of a software guy.

Anyway, is there a video of the procedure?  Perhaps I could "learn by watching."  ;)

Thanks,
Jason

Jason,

I did not look at any of these as I am dog tired, but here is a search that I did for some "youtube how to solder videos."

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=p&tbs=vid:1&&sa=X&ei=8OuNTKXuAoe8sAPH3aSVBA&ved=0CDYQBSgA&q=youtube+how+to+solder&spell=1 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=p&tbs=vid:1&&sa=X&ei=8OuNTKXuAoe8sAPH3aSVBA&ved=0CDYQBSgA&q=youtube+how+to+solder&spell=1)

Hopefully something here will get you started on your path to becoming a Master PCB Soldering Guy!  :97-

I cannot stress enough that a "decent" soldering iron is probably a must to have.

Probably not this... http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/?category=&q=soldering+iron   :208- :208- :208- Sorry in advance to the people here that have one of them, and it works great for you!!! :88- :89- I usually burnt myself with those, or almost set the place on fire with one like that!  :25- :30- :200-

Maybe something like this??? I was surprised by the price! :25-  http://cgi.ebay.com/VARIABLE-TEMPERATURE-40-WATT-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-NEW-/260661323312?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb0a02630

I use something like this on basic soldering.....  http://cgi.ebay.com/Weller-WLC100-Soldering-Station-Iron-40W-40-Watt-NEW-/280554964985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41526107f9

Here it is used... http://cgi.ebay.com/Weller-WLC100-Soldering-Station-Iron-40W-40-Watt-/370430060500?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563f5a27d4

Now you have some homework while you wait for other "experts" to reply! :97- :97- :97-

CaptainHappy :95-

I have to agree 100% with CaptainHappy. The BEST thing you can do is to invest in a decent temperature controlled soldering station with replaceable tips.

I bought a Tenma from MCM and am happy with it, but Weller is a well known brand and one of their models would be a good choice. My model, which listed for $90 and was on sale for $40 the week I bought it, has been replaced with another, but it lists specific temperatures on the dial and has an independent LED scale that shows the current temperature of the iron.


As far as soldering those watch batteries, I've only done it once and it was a b^#ch. Buzz has done it many times and I followed his advice. YMMV.

First, when you remove the old battery, cut the flat leads as close to the battery as possible: leave as much of the leads on the board as you can. He told me to use flux to clean the surface of the battery first and then to adhere a drop of solder each side of the battery, and finally to put the battery in place with the board leads touching and remelt the solder.

The problem I had was that I couldn't get any solder to adhere to the negative side (the smaller smooth circle). I boiled away half of the battery trying to get it to take. It's in place and working (and I can't tell you how surprised I was that it still had all of its 3.3V! (3V batt.), but I'm sure I'll have to change it again before long.

The next time I'm going to get a battery holder and solder it to the board and then put the battery into it, even if I know that I won't have to replace the battery for 10 years.

Maybe Buzz or another member can shed more light with some tips I don't know.

Bought this one for $49.95 last week on sale...

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/21-7958 (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/21-7958)

Use promo code DD9102 to get that price, but I'm not sure how much longer it will be valid. Regular price is $112.

Stat just confirmed that I would most likely burn down my house if I attempted a solder job with the watch style batteries.   :208-

Is there anybody out here that performs a service like this for those of us that are all thumbs with a soldering iron?  I would have to imagine that I'm not the only guy in this circumstance. 

I'll have to admit that soldering a watch battery would not be a task I would suggest to a soldering newbie trying to get his feet wet.  However, if you're going to play the slot game, you owe it to yourself to get a decent iron and start practicing. You have a couple of other options:

• You can find a disk battery holder and solder that onto your board instead. That's much easier than trying to solder the battery in directly. Pick a common size for a battery that can be easily found in a local store. (CR2032 or CD2025 come to mind)
• You can find a disk battery with tabs already in place and solder that to the board.
• You can use a 1/2AA or full AA 3.6V battery (the ones used in many slot machines) and avoid dealing with the watch-style batteries altogether. They are easier to deal with and also can be purchased with leads. The extra 0.6V shouldn't hurt anything. (If an electronic expert disagrees, please post)
• You can solder leads to a 1/2AA or full AA battery holder to the board and then put your barrel battery in the holder.

When you order your soldering station, pick up a DVM DMM if you don't already have one. It's as basic a tool as a screwdriver. You'll probably use it more often than a screwdriver when working on slots. :96-


Stat :31-

<EDIT> They call them Multi-Meters nowadays. lol. :30-

I'm a newbie to soldering, I tried to solder a button battery into my Mikon controller and it got so hot will I mucked about that it exploded and nearly took my eye out, I recommend getting a professional in !!

Are there any NLG'ers that can do this procedure in their sleep and offer up this kind of professional service for the inexperienced crowd?

Buying a temperature controlled soldering station won't help a newbie much.
The best thing to do is LEARN!
Read a few online internet articles on basic soldering techniques.
Then practice with your soldering pencil and make a box out of paper clips.
If you can master that - you can solder anything without fear...

It will teach you how NOT to start a fire or BURN your fingers.

The best way to teach a child about fire is give them a small box 
of wooden stick matches and watch them light them up.
They LEARN really fast!

Check this out>>>
http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=6994.msg62409#msg62409 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=6994.msg62409#msg62409)

Also, always, ALWAYS wear safety glasses when soldering batteries!!!!

Well, the BIG problem is that my hands shake like a dog pooping razor blades, and by the looks of those boards and where those batteries are located, I'd shake myself right into a disaster.  LOL!

I really like Statfreak's Reply#5.
There would no heat applied to the battery if you just snip off the old one and
solder in a battery holder and drop in a new battery into the holder.

Remember, fear is something you can overcome.
Knowledge helps overcome fear.
So, you better start reading soldering articles... :72-

If you only intend to do very limited soldering, I would suggest finding someone else to do it for you . Until you buy a soldering station , solder, flux, and a desoldering tool or braid and the smaller tools required to deal with electronic components you will have at least 150.00  invested. According to their website, Batteries Plus has locations in most major cities, they generally carry most batteries and will replace them on a board type level. meaning ,if you carry the board into the store if they have the battery they will unsolder the old and put in a new battery. As with anything else, you are the last inspector.
  As for tips to solder: the key to soldering is CLEANLINESS. you will never get solder to adhere to anything that is dirty, oily, etc. clean and tin any component before attempting any soldering. The tip of the soldering pencil itself has to be clean for maximun heat transfer. Tinning is a procedure that allows you to clean and flow solder onto the surface of the component that you are going to solder to a pcb. Its advisable to buy a soldering iron that you can replace tips, there are different type tips for different type soldering applications. If you apply to much heat or pressure to the eyelet or run , you could cause them to be lifted from the board and then you have another repair to do .  Applying too much heat to a component can do damage to the component and could injure the person doing the soldering. this generally applies to thru hole soldering applications, surface mount is a whole new world.

Jim

Jason  to be blunt I could do as you ask and solder a battery onto your board for you, but I won't. Reason being if I do it for you, you learn nothing. I have to ask, why are you changing the battery? Have you checked it with a multimeter? (bet you haven't)  Would you go out and buy a new set of tires for your car without inspecting the old ones? Same is true for a battery, you have to inspect it, only way I know how is with a multimeter. Go down to your local Harbor Fright (you have one I looked it up) buy a multimeter and cheap soldering iron, ( I say a cheap iron because I don't see you doing board repairs and a cheap one will solder a battery just fine) the multimeter you will buy from H/F is close to the category of being junk but will serve the purpose of checking a battery's voltage. Stop by a hardware store and buy some 60/40 solder the smaller diameter the better DO NOT BUY ACID CORE SOLDER   acid core BAD rosin core GOOD solid core OK ( I use solid core ) also get a small tin or bottle of flux and a sheet of fine sandpaper.

Now the fun begins  I would have you take the new battery and sandpaper some of the gloss off it where you are going to apply the solder. do this close to the edge of the battery both sides ( at 12 o'clock top and 6 o'clock bottom)  With the iron hot and ever though you bought rosin core solder put a dab of flux on the battery  (no such thing as to much flux, when your done it wipes right off)) Now place the hot iron to the battery where you want the solder, first the flux will burn off, now stick the end of the solder to the battery close to but not against the soldering iron tip, when the battery gets hot enough the solder will start flowing now just kind of lift the iron up a little bit so you get a pretty thick pool of solder. Do the same thing to the other side. now your ready to cut the metal tabs as close to the battery as you can, top one first, lift the battery vertical and cut the bottom side, here again as close to the battery as possible because the tabs will be reused even though they will be a little shorter, With the old battery out pratice your soldering on it. With a pair of pliers straighten the tabs ( doesn't hurt and kind of helps to put some solder on them also) Last step hold the battery vertical and against the lower tab, solder to the tab ( if you use your bare fingers they are going to get burned ) take the hot iron and touch the tab until the solder flows between the two. wait just a little while until the solder hardens ( 5/10 seconds) If you move it to quick it will break off and you get a little more pratice. Fold the battery over and repeat the top side. Now your done and you feel better because you did it yourself.

This is the method I use because I don't like putting heat anywhere close to a board if I don't have to. I should add that all of Stat's recommendations are right on. But me I don't install a holder because 10 years from now I don't care how much trouble someone else has changing a battery.

IF YOU HAVE TROUBLE GETTING THE SOLDER TO STICK TO THE NEW BATTERY<DISREGARDE> ALL OF THE ABOVE

Thanks guys.  Jim, when I performed the soldering hack job on my old Jackpot Jungle, I bought a battery with the soldering leads from Batteries Plus!   I had no idea that they would perform the service!  I'll have to give our local shop a call and see if they'll do it.  

Thanks for the advice, and yes, soldering is MINIMAL in my world.  This would really be the only use case for a soldering station, hence the request to find someone that can do it.

Thanks again,
Jason

Hi Buzz,
There aren't any problems with my machines at all...they're running great.  I'm just doing a bit of research before the problem happens, so I thought I'd ask the community.  Thanks for the advice.

Jason

Believe me gents, I am one of the world's biggest proponents of "DIY" as it does help an end user learn, save money, and feel that sense of accomplishment, but in this case...let's just say I would not make it as a doctor using fine instrumentation.  It really is a matter of the shakes that I have a hard time controlling.  You guys are great, and I appreciate your willingness to always help out.  I know my limits, and unfortunately, this is one of them.

OK folks...

I've been soldering for years... started as a kid in the 7th grade with my first soldering iron. Upgraded my first computer from 16 to 64K when I was in 8th grade... and  went to school to learn surface mount soldering in '93... Let me go on the record as saying:

NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER SOLDER TO BUTTON OR COIN BATTERIES

Buy a solder in battery holder... or go to Batteries Plus and buy a battery... They will spot weld the leads onto the battery for FREE. (At least the ones here in North Texas do!)

Those batteries can and will leak, explode, or worse... Lithium batteries contain EXTREMELY corrosive materials inside them. They will burn skin, eat traces, and cause lots of damage to whatever it lands on.

I'll solder all kinds of things, even .4mm pitch leads on a surface mount chips, but I will NEVER solder to a coin battery.

RJ

RJ  Let me go on the record YOU DON'T    I DO   

I live 6 blocks away from the local Batteries Plus. They will spot weld leads for free on coin batteries you buy from them. It's far safer to solder to the leads.

Truth of the matter is I live in a Town that the only place you can spend money is, pay your water bill or go to the Post Office and buy stamps.

You are really not supposed to solder batteries unless they have "solder tabs". The batteries I used for the S2000 had those tabs with pre-soldered leads so very easy to install. I just went to a hamfest and picked up a Weller gun for 10 dollars, now I want to solder everything because it heats up fast and cools down just as fast. I even made a door able for my Bally as per Stout's instructions.

Channel, do you have any photos of the "soldered on" battery holders on an S2000 or Game King board?  Just curious what they look like.

Here's a photo for you from another thread.  The same battery/holder works on S2K MPUs and 3802/3902 boards.  Clean, neat, and will last a long time. 

http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=6357.msg56520#msg56520 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=6357.msg56520#msg56520)

Thanks Tilt!  I'll check with Batteries Plus and see if they carry them.  That would be a clean way of doing it indeed.

Excellent post Tilt!  :244-
That would be the best way to do it!!  :89-

Just to add my 2 cents.

I've installed installed battery holders on boards for my IGT splus machine, 3 3902 boards and several of my arcade games.  Here's a link of the holder or one similar:  http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_38543_-1

I'm not a expert solderer but if you own the games, you have to learn the basics.

 I use a soldering iron that's like a pen which has changeable heads.  My last project was last week with a 3902 board.  The biggest pain is removing the board from the metal tray.
  I clip the old battery from its leads with some wire cutters.  I attach a pair of small vise grip needle nose pliers to one of the leads,  turn the board over and apply the iron to the back side solder point.  I use a desoldering braid to draw away the liquid.  (When I turn the board upside down, I elevate it a bit so the pliers are hanging a little bit, so they are pulling on the lead, once the solder bond is liquified, the pliers pull the lead out.)
Once both leads are out, I install the new battery clip, turn the board upside down and solder it in from the backside.

Lenny

Yoeddy I would go with a battery holder when the time comes.  And in addition to Batteries Plus many TV repair shops would do it for you  and I doubt they would charge that much. Plus they would probably have more experience soldering than the people at Batteries Plus.
Mike

I've soldered leads on the button-type batteries for various components a lot in the past. And yes, they will explode (wear safety glasses - seriously).

I always rough up the battery where I'm going to solder it with a bit of sandpaper, pocket knife, screwdriver tip, etc. You'll want the solder to stick as quick as possible.

I run what I consider medium heat - I want the surface I'm going to solder onto to get hot without heating up the entire battery. But not so hot, too quick a reaction (kabloomy!). If I can't get the battery tinned in one second, that's too long. And my wire/metal lead will also be tinned and ready. Once both are tinned, I solder them together. I also solder on a dense material to help heat-sink the button cell (chunk of steel, concrete, etc.).

It's like anything else. Even though you're not supposed to do it, a lot of people still do it. If you do it, just be safe.

BTW,  when the one button cell I soldered blew up, it blew up. One second it was there, the next it was gone. Kind of like a mini firecracker.

Somebody mentioned Batteries Plus. They have the assorted leads and the equipment to spot weld those leads to any battery, as well as being a decent source for batteries.

A drop or two of flux also goes a long way for quicker adhersion.
Just cause I can... doesn't mean I would want to....I would still lean towards a battery holder.

With the S+ specifically you have a ton on space in your slot so you could easily mount a battery holder on the backside of the metal tray with velcro strips and just run long leads to the board.

I ask this question, is a battery holder a improvement? I don't think so, the only the reason I can see to install a battery holder is it's a lazy way to change a battery, which by the way is close to every 10 years. (give or take a few) Can a battery in a holder lose contact over the years, of course it can. ( I didn't say it will, I said it can) Have any of you ever had a flashlight that you had to beat the S*** out of to get it to work? Those batteries are in a holder,

Now I did a little experiment the other day, I took a old coin/button battery, sanded it a little bit to clean it, smeared some flux on it, loaded the tip of a hot soldering iron with solder. I held the battery with my index finger and thumb, took the iron and applied solder to the battery, the solder stuck and the battery never got hot enough for me to let go. It did get warm but never hot. Now what I'm getting from this thread is, heat is one of the worse things that can be done to a battery. So I guess I will have to find a Battiers Plus and see what kind of a welder they have that can weld a tab to a battery without using any heat. The 5 different kinds of welders I have in my garage all operate with a electrical arc and that arc produces heat and that heat melts steel. Last time I looked it up steel melts at a higher temp. than solder.

I don't think it's any suprise I will contune soldering my batteries. Online Batteries Plus doesn't sell CR2330, Radio Shack has them for $5.99 each no tab. I can get 100 from China, with shipping $34.98  Now what does that mean. it means I can buy 100, use 6  s**t can 94 and still save money.                                 

Buzz, the batteries in your flashlight beat the hell out of the contacts when you're tossing it in the toolbox, under the house, running it over with the truck, etc....  :79-  :96-

They use a spot welder with a tip that looks like a needle, the heat is very localized. The weld looks to be about .005 inches in diameter  :71-

I solder on batteries as well, just rough 'em up and use flux. :89-

hey Buzz, why don't you just buy the correct batteries with tabs.  I prefer to use the BR2335 batteries which I believe can withstand higher temperatures.  I don't have to throw any away because they aren't made in China.  Even the batteries that come in the board are BR series.
(http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/images/batteries-oem/oem/2.1.2.1/cointypebrcr-battery.gif)
"coin type lithium batteries are available in two types: poly-carbonmonofluoride lithium batteries (BR series) for uses that require extended reliability and safety over a broad temperature range and manganese dioxide lithium batteries (CR series) for uses that require and strong load pulse characteristics."

read the pdf file attached regarding soldering
Have a great weekend.
Thanks,
Wayne

Buzz, I'm not posting this to try to change your mind, but only to point out that the amount of heat transferred depends on the difference in temperature between the two objects (your "welder is hotter" statement), the amount of area in contact, and the duration of contact, all other factors being equal. Their process is safer because both the contact area and time are significantly reduced, so even though the temperature is greater than that of the soldering iron, less heat is transferred to the battery.

Buying factory leaded (has leads on it) batteries is the best.

W

David     Wayne     I have never said battery's with the tabs/leds are not the better way. What I have said is it's no big thing to solder a battery. I will add this I will be damned if I will pay a thousand dollars plus shipping for 100 battery's with tabs wheh I can buy 100 without tabs for $34.98 with shipping.

Made in China ?? what isn't ??  My Son just got back from a parts store, I had him get me a U Joint for my big truck, he had two choices a Spicer Brand or a aftermarket. The Spicer brand was $120, aftermarket was $80  Guess where both were made?  CHINA !!!! 

Now I think this thread has just about ran it's course. I'm not going to change my mind. If you want a machine that doesn't have a battery soldered in, do not not get one  that came from me.

How many batteries do you need Buzz?

Thanks,
Wayne

I was going to answer, but I don't keep Tabs on how many batteries Buzz uses. :200-  :30- :30-   :97- :97-   :208- :208- :208-


SF :31-

Ok, that was bad. :125- :125-

Thanks.  :88- :5-