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Title: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: timbo1961 on November 19, 2008, 09:41:05 AM Just Purchased a IGT Triple Double RWB S-2000, that came with 150 tokens, almost every time, before I'm Thu these tokens this machine has rung up, any where from 250 - 5000 credits, is it possible something has been set to do this ? Maybe a reset of the machine will fix this, I'd appreciate any input you have.
Thanks :103- Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: theDotster on November 19, 2008, 11:43:03 AM I'm no expert, but it sounds to me like it is in some sort of tournament mode.
Could this be linked to the problems you had with the bill validator being disabled and the coins going to a drop box and not the hopper? I believe the markings on the game/reel chips should help identify if it is tournament software or not. Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: timbo1961 on November 19, 2008, 04:33:20 PM :99- How do I Identify these ? (location)
Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: theDotster on November 19, 2008, 05:24:19 PM I'm sorry I don't know the exact location on the board, but they should be on the processor board that plugs in on the left hand side of the machine. They usually have a sticker on the top of them with a code number like SSxxxxx or SPxxxxx, possible even labelled GME, BSE or REEL.
I don't personally own one, but hopefully someone here can give the exact chip locations and confirm or shoot down my musings above! Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: Foster on November 19, 2008, 05:35:06 PM Take a look at this post
This is a picture of my spare MPU for a S2000 http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=791.msg5398#msg5398 (http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=791.msg5398#msg5398) Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: idesign on November 19, 2008, 10:08:20 PM The chips to look for are GME1 and GME2 (SB1XXXXX), and the Stepper Game chip (SG000XXX)
Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: PWRSTROKE on November 21, 2008, 12:41:17 AM Why not just chk. the % in the menu and change it if it will allow it? :103- I have s-2000's that will alow this. -Just a thought-B.
Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: Brianzz on November 21, 2008, 01:01:46 AM FYI in tournament mode machine won't accept coin or bills
Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: timbo1961 on November 21, 2008, 09:56:50 AM I went into my accounting menu & here are some of the things I found,
PV1 - Game SG000312 9f1 PV3 - Base SB100194 7CD9 PV6 - Bill WBA 12/13 024.V360-30 PV7 - Primary Dot m IGT VFD 00002 1997/7/11 PV8 - Printer Not Configured PV9 - Printer 2 Not Configured PV10 - Theoretical Payback % LS014537 96.22 % PV11 - Proc Board ID 0-2184-40671 PV13 - Spectrum Not Configured PV14 - Version VS009GXo 34c9 PV16 - Sound DSV 00042 5811 PV17 - Aux Bonus Device Not Configured PV18 - Aux Dot Matrix Not ConfiguredOptions Machine 3.1.1 - Credit Credit 3.1.2 - Candles Reactive Timer - 0 Door Closure - Enable Door Drop - Enable 3.1.4 - Limits Hopper - 500 Credit - 500 Jackpot - 500 Bills - 500 3.1.5 - Partial Pay Odd Pay - Disable 3.1.7 - Cashout Cashout Menu - Disable 3.1.8 - W-2G Setup Controller - Turn Test Key Limit - Turn Test Key Communicaton 3.4.1 - Sas Setup Primary Add - 016 Channel - Off Link Down - Enable Hand Pay - Multi Report Game Event - Enable 3.4.2 Sas Setup Secondary - 001 Reset Same as Primary 3.4.3 - Config Sas Cashless - Primary Legacy - PrimaryAsdc - Primary Link - Primary Validation - Primary 3.4.4 Ass# Ass# - 000000 Reg # - 0000 Tran # - Disable Tick # - 001000.00 3.4.2 Bally Setup Miser Protocol - Ver 906820912 W/Bonus Support Channel - # 3 Download 3.7 - Game Play Spin Repeat - Disable Looking at these can you tell if it's setup for Tournament Originally when I purchased this slot, Hopper was Grounded out & Bills were disabled, only took tokens, so I enabled the bill validator but that's all I did, is it possible to turn things off in menu to make it a tournament mode machine ? PV10 list 96.22% would this be the payout% ? and the reason it pays out like it does. As far as trying to change % where in the menu were you able to do so ? Thanks Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: Foster on November 21, 2008, 12:29:39 PM Nothing there shows it in tournament mode.
96.22% is the payback to player over the life of the machine, or a few million plays. Red, White & Blue themes if they have a 95% or better chip could appear to be paying out too much. You need to use a key chip to change the game payback percentage (you have 5 or so to pick from) Key 17 is what you need. I wouldn't worry about it you have a loose machine for now, it will change. You could also have a good playing pattern. Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: timbo1961 on November 21, 2008, 05:04:51 PM Thanks for the input , Alright since this doesn't seem to be in a Tournament Mode, Can you look over these Items that are in the menu and see if this looks right also. Not familiar on how to read these figures but if this slot was used to payout cash I would have lot my shirt in the week that I've owned it .
Would it help things if I did a ram clear ? or do you think I should just leave things alone ? Like Foster mentioned It just might be loose for now and it will change. Accounting 1.1 Terminal Accounting 1.1.1 Terminal Master Accounting 1.1.1.1 Terminal Master Money Accounting MTA 1- Coin In 16398 MTA 8- Coins Out 1101 1.1.2 Period Accounting 1.1.2.1 Period Terminal Accounting PTA 1- Per Coin In Played 16398 PTA 8- Per Hold 32.17 % Game 1.2.1 Game 1 Meter GM 1 - Coin In 0 1.2.2 Game 2 Meter GM 2 - Coin In 0 GM 2 - Machine Paid Won 0 GM 2.1 - Coin Out (Machine Paid Paytable) 0 GM 2.2 - Machine Paid Progressive Payout 0 GM 2.3 - Machine Paid Extra Bonus Payout 0 GM 3 - Games Played 0 GM 4 - Games Won 0 GM 5 - Attendant Paid Won 0 GM 5.1 - Attendant Paid Jackpots 0 GM 5.2 - Attendant Paid Progressive Payout 0 GM 5.3 - Attendant Paid External Bonus Payout 0 GM 6 - Attendant Paid Canceled Credit 0 GM 7 - Bonus Won 0 GM 8 - System Bonus Won 0 1.2.3 Game 3 Meter GM 1 - Coin in 16398 GM 2 - Machine Paid Won 17324 GM 2.1 - Coin Out (Machine Paid Paytable) 17324 GM 2.2 - Machine Paid Progressive Payout 0 GM 2.3 - Machine Paid External Bonus Payout 0 GM 3 - Games Played 5867 GM 4 - Games Won 698 GM 5 - Attendant Paid Won 4350 GM 5.1 - Attendant Paid Jackpots 4350 GM 5.2 - Attendant Paid Progressive Payouts 0 GM 5.3 - Attendant Paid External Bonus Payout 0 GM 6 - Attendant Paid Cancelled Credits 4741 GM 7 - Bonus Won 0 GM 8 - System Bonus Won 0 1.2.4 Game 4 Meter GM 1 - Coin in 0 GM 2 - Machine Paid Won 0 GM 2.1 - Coin Out (Machine Paid Paytable) 0 GM 2.2 - Machine Paid Progressive Payout 0 GM 2.3 - Machine Paid External Bonus Payout 0 GM 3 - Games Played 0 GM 4 - Games Won 0 GM 5 - Attendant Paid Won 0 GM 5.1 - Attendant Paid Jackpots 0 GM 5.2 - Attendant Paid Progressive Payouts 0 GM 5.3 - Attendant Paid External Bonus Payout 0 GM 6 - Attendant Paid Cancelled Credits 0 GM 7 - Bonus Won 0 GM 8 - System Bonus Won 0 1.2.5 Game 5 Meter GM 1 - Coin in 0 GM 2 - Machine Paid Won 0 GM 2.1 - Coin Out (Machine Paid Paytable) 0 GM 2.2 - Machine Paid Progressive Payout 0 GM 2.3 - Machine Paid External Bonus Payout 0 GM 3 - Games Played 0 GM 4 - Games Won 0 GM 5 - Attendant Paid Won 0 GM 5.1 - Attendant Paid Jackpots 0 GM 5.2 - Attendant Paid Progressive Payouts 0 GM 5.3 - Attendant Paid External Bonus Payout 0 GM 6 - Attendant Paid Cancelled Credits 0 GM 7 - Bonus Won 0 GM 8 - System Bonus Won 0 Security 1.4 Security Account SA 1 - Games Since Main Dr 0 SA 2 - Games Since Drop Dr 5867 SA 3 - Games Since Power Cycle 0 SA 4 - Main Dr Opens 103 SA 5 - Coin Drop Opens 0 SA 6 - Bill Drop Opens 0 SA 7 - Card Cage Access 0 SA 8 - Key Chip Access Jurisdiction 3 100 % 4/4/08 SA 9 - Ttale Main Dr Opens 0 SA 10 - Ttale Coin Drop Opens 0 SA 11 - Ttale Bill Drop Opens 0 SA 12 - Ttale Card Cage Opens 0 SA 13 - Games Since Ram Clear 5867 Error Accounting 1.5 Error Accounting 1.5.1 Error Accounting EA 1 - Coin In Jams 1 EA 2 - Coin In Seq. Errors 0 EA 3 - Bill Jams 0 EA 4 - Reject Bills 0 EA 5 - Bill Validator Errors 3 EA 6 - Hopper Empties 11 EA 7 - Coin Out Jams 2 EA 8 - Extra Coin Outs 0 EA 9 - Meter Disconnects 0 EA 10 - Processor Faults 0 EA 11 - Printer Faults 0 EA 12 - Reel 1 Tilts 0 EA 13 - Reel 2 Tilts 0 EA 14 - Reel 3 Tilts 0 EA 15 - Reel 4 Tilts 0 EA 16 - Reel 5 Tilts 0 EA 17 - General Reel Tilts 0 EA 18 - Reels Disconnected 0 EA 19 - Reel 6 Tilts 0 EA 20 - Reel 7 Tilts 0 EA 21 - Reel 8 Tilts 0 EA 22 - Reel 9 Tilts 0 EA 23 - Reel 10 Tilts 0 EA 24 - Reel 11 Tilts 0 EA 25 - Reel 12 Tilts 0 EA 26 - Reel 13 Tilts 0 Version Accounting 1.6 Version Accounting 1.6.1 Version Accounting PV 1 - Game SG000312 9F1 PV 3 - Base SB100194 7CD9 PV 6 - Bill WBA 12 / 13 024. V.360-30 PV 7 - Primary Dot Matrix IGT VFD 00002 1997-7-11 PV 8 - Printer Not Configured PV 9 - Printer 2 Not Configured PV 10 - Theorethical Payback % LS014537 96.22 % PV 11 - Proc Board ID -0-2184-40671 PV 13 - Spectrum Not Configured PV 14 - Version VS009GXO 34C9 PV 16 - Sound DSV 00042 5811 PV 17 - Aux Bonus Device Not Configured PV 18 - Aux Dot Matrix Not Configured Master Progressive Accounting 1.7 Master Progressive Accounting PA 1 - Level 1 Hits 0 PA 2 - Level 2 Hits 0 PA 3 - Level 3 Hits 0 PA 4 - Level 4 Hits 0 PA 5 - Level 5 Hits 0 PA 6 - Level 6 Hits 0 PA 7 - Level 7 Hits 0 PA 8 - Level 8 Hits 0 PA 9 - Total Progressive Hits 0 Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: Foster on November 21, 2008, 05:14:58 PM I don't think it is paying out too much.
It has a 32% hold at the current time. Also according to your coin in/out the player has about 6% payback that is very low compared to the 96.22% it theoretically has. Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: idesign on November 21, 2008, 06:22:24 PM GM 1 - Coin in 16398
GM 2 - Machine Paid Won 17324 More coins out than in. 6% to the good. Otherwise it would be minus. Looks like he hit a jackpot along the way. Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: Foster on November 21, 2008, 06:33:26 PM Idesign you are corrrect.
I was looking at the wrong 2 numbers, I was looking under the MTA stuff. :25- Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: StatFreak on November 22, 2008, 04:36:54 AM Sorry to correct you guys, but:
Total in = 16,398 Total Out = 17,324 + 4,350 + 4,741 (OK, the cancelled credits may be included in the 17,324 :103-) = either 21,674 or That's either 132.2% or Win frequency = 8.4 (that's actually below average!) Avg bet = 2.79 coins Avg win = 11.1 coins/coin or But 5,867 games is a drop in the bucket - the long term payback statistics mean nothing at such a small play level. SS4633 is the closest PAR that I have (I don't know S2000 details but the payout of 96.234% is a close match. Here is the short-term volatility: 90% CONFIDENCE VALUES VOLATILITY INDEX = 16.427 HANDLE PULLS LOWER UPPER PERCENTAGE PERCENTAGE 1000. 44.29 148.18 10000. 79.81 112.66 100000. 91.04 101.43 So for 5,900 pulls you're a bit on the high side, but remember that the numbers above represent 90% values -- that means that one in ten times the numbers will still fall outside the range indicated. The high average win amount, the lower hit frequency, and the handpays listed on your machine show that most of extra payout came from a small number of large hits - again, within short-term expectation. You could quite possibly still be in the red after ten-times as much action (60,000 games played). In fact, I would actually expect it at this point. If you're still in the red after 500,000 games played, then you might have a problem. Even then, not necessarily with this game. That's why casinos install hundreds of machines and want to see hundreds of thousands of pulls per DAY. They don't look at one machine, or fifty, for that matter, for their daily bread and butter. Quote 1.2.3 Game 3 Meter GM 1 - Coin in 16398 GM 2 - Machine Paid Won 17324 GM 2.1 - Coin Out (Machine Paid Paytable) 17324 GM 2.2 - Machine Paid Progressive Payout 0 GM 2.3 - Machine Paid External Bonus Payout 0 GM 3 - Games Played 5867 GM 4 - Games Won 698 GM 5 - Attendant Paid Won 4350 GM 5.1 - Attendant Paid Jackpots 4350 GM 5.2 - Attendant Paid Progressive Payouts 0 GM 5.3 - Attendant Paid External Bonus Payout 0 GM 6 - Attendant Paid Cancelled Credits 4741 GM 7 - Bonus Won 0 GM 8 - System Bonus Won 0 Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: blueridgeslots on November 22, 2008, 10:28:53 AM Canceled Credits are not included in Coin Out, they have to be counted separate as a Hand Pay (not a Jackpot Win), but a cash out over what hopper will pay, and also you need to know the accounting denom vs the game denom, it could be a penny accounting denom and a quarter game, but don't suspect that here
Title: Re: Slot paying out too often, Is there a way to change this? Post by: StatFreak on November 22, 2008, 04:23:00 PM Canceled Credits are not included in Coin Out, they have to be counted separate as a Hand Pay (not a Jackpot Win), but a cash out over what hopper will pay, and also you need to know the accounting denom vs the game denom, it could be a penny accounting denom and a quarter game, but don't suspect that here I agree with you about the canceled credits; that's why they have a separate line item for them. But if that's the case, then why is the machine reporting a hold of 32.17% (which should be negative)? 21,674/16398 = 132.1747%, but 26,415/16398 = 161.0867% :103- That indicates that the 32.17% figure listed by the machine does not include the canceled credits of 4741. That's odd. :128- I also agree with you about the denomination issue. The denomination of the accounting and the game would only come into play if all of the figures listed did not represent the same type of information (credits in this case), because then the numbers would have to be converted to the same type of data before doing the math (apples to apples). The only figure that might be dollars is the jackpot amount, and I agree that it doesn't appear to be. |