Fooling coin comparators?

[MarkC]

I have some IGT S+ machines in my rec room, set to Canadian nickels, but there is a high rejection rate even with the pot turned all the way to minus (-).  I guess there is quite a varation in Canadian 5cent coins.

So my question is, can I modify the comparator to accept anything? This is for rec room use so I don't have to worry about slugs but I'd sure like the machines to be less fussy about nickels.  Any hints?

Thanks!

Mark

[stayouttadabunker]

Take the harness off off the coin comparitor and take out the
coin comparitor unit and pull off the 2-pin connector with the gray wires off the top of it.
Flip the coin comparitor around and remove the 2 Phillips screws that secure the rake solenoid
and remove the solenoid and rake entirely.
Replace the coin comparitor back into the machine and
re-attach the coin comparitor harness.

The coins will fall straight through to the coin-in optics.
The coin-in optics is what gives your machine credits.
Perfectly acceptable for a home use machine.
If the rake is bent backwards in a casino environment however -
that would be instant grounds for somebody to get terminated.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/y1Bm0cWN2h4&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/y1Bm0cWN2h4&rel=0</a>

[MarkC]

Thanks, will give that a shot right now!

[MarkC]

Removed the solenoid/rake and all coins now pass into the hopper.  However, it's still not crediting the slightly different sized nickels     Any ideas?  I appreciate the help.

Mark

[stayouttadabunker]

Yep...Bad coin-in optic boards....maybe.
Possibly a burnt LED transmitter or receiver optic.
There are 3 LEDs per board in there - 3 are transmitters and 3 are receiver optics.
Try jiggling the harness connected to the coin-in optics board?
Might be a bad connection really...
It's the harness with 6 orange wires and a red and a green wire.

Anything blocking the 3 holes where the optics are peering at each other through?
While you're checking the "encoder" board out...
See if it's an encoder board for a quarter rather than for nickels.
The nickels are not big enough to cover the 3 holes for all
three optics to pick it up as it falls through there.
You may have to get a smaller "encoder" that's designed for nickels.
Notice the encoder on the right has a guide while the other one
on the left is broken off to fit larger tokens.
Click to enlarge! >>>

[MarkC]

The coin-in optics seem fine... In addition, I removed the solenoid/rake from 2 other machines and I'm having the same problem.  They all credit the similar nickels but not the slightly different ones.  The only real difference is the different nickels making it into the hopper instead of the coin tray at the bottom...  I can try it on a few more machines but it seems odd that every single one has bad optics... Any ideas?

Mark

[stayouttadabunker]

Are you changing the coin with the slightly different sized coins in the coin-comparitor holder?
The coin comparitor sample coin must be the same as the coins your dropping into the slot.

[MarkC]

Well no, then it would reject the newer nickels   It seems Canadian nickels have 2 *slightly* different sizes and the machine is being really fussy about it.  That's why I wanted to make the comparitor "dumb" -- so the machine would credit anything.

Thanks for the picture upload, the machines do have the smaller denomination encoder.  I'm pulling my hair out on how to make them less fussy!

Mark

[stayouttadabunker]

The the coin sensitivity acceptance dial fully to the left. <<<<<
It should accept just about anything smaller than the sample coin.
In other words....it makes the coin-in comparability "dumber"...
Click to enlarge photo...>>>

[MarkC]

Sorry if I'm not being clear.. These are nickel machines and there is a nickel in the comparitor.  However, there is slight variation in Canadian nickels so I'm experiencing a 30% reject rate (approximately).  I'd like to have the machines credit anything I throw down them, to fix this problem.  Right now they are so fussy the 1% difference in nickel sizes causes rejection.

Yes, the dial is all the way to the left so you'd think the slight difference in coins would pass.. But nope.

Mark

[ROCKET]

 

just to toss this in he may have a 1.00 encoder in the coin drop not a nickel or quarter size one
which would simulate the same problem of coins skipping !!

what size is the black encoder you have ?? 

it should be stamped on side what denomination etc

[ROCKET]

 buy the x-factor coin comp. then you can program to to take any coin you want .

gets pricy for several machines --

what are you going to do about hopper payouts ??

tossng in every size coin you have ??

leave it to a Canada coin person to do this ... no stab just harmless humor

[MarkC]

I don't mean I'm going to throw different coins in there -- only nickels.  The problem is that our nickels are a *tiny* biit different (depending on year) and I'd like the machine to accept both.  The hopper has no problem with the slight size difference.  The only problem I'm having is getting credits from both sizes of nickels.

[cowboygames]

Are you using the larger of the two sizes as the sample coin in your comparitor? From the previous posts it sounds like adjusting sensitivity down allows the comparitor to then accept slightly smaller coins so using the larger sample might get you through this

[stayouttadabunker]

I think he's is using the larger size in the sample coin -
if he used the smaller one - the larger coin probably wouldn't fit through?

I agree with Rocket however - You need X-Factor coin comparators.
Your comparitor is the wrong one for what you're trying to accomplish.
Basically, the nickels are screwed up in Canada - they're NOT uniform.
maybe you should change to a quarter denomination perhaps?
Might be cheaper than buying a whole boatload of X-Factor coin comparators?

The only other thing I can think of trying is removing the Q2 diode from the
coin-in optics board but I don't know if the problem lies solely with the coin comparitor OR
the coin-in optics - unless you give us a performance through the coin-in Tests.

Do you know how to perform these coin-in Tests?
I would drop 20 nickels of each size in the Tests and see what the results are...
from there we might have a better answer for ya!

[Jim]

Lets start by verifying two things!   as Rocket has stated: see what denomination is written on the black encoder itself, the quarter one will have 25 cents and SBA stamped on them, the nickel encoder has 5 cents stamped on it. 

Since you removed the rake from the coin mech, then you have removed its whole purpose in life, it should accept any nickel that goes into it. the adjustment means nothing at this stage, when a valid coin is sensed the purpose of the coin mech. is to open the rake and allow that good coin to pass to the optics and establish credit on the machine and then direct it to the hopper or to the coin overflow chute and down to a waiting bucket located in the stand.

you should be able to remove the plug to the coin comparator and the nickels should go into the optics etc.  at this point all you have is a straight thru path that should not care about size or content or weight.  If coins are being rejected then your comparator has some type of mechanical defect or is missing some part. right now all you have is a straight thru path with no electronic input as to the output.

Jim
 

[stayouttadabunker]

Jim,
If you remove the plug...wouldn't the un-energized rake - throw the coins dropped into the coin tray?

ADD: Sorry, I forgot the rake was removed....
With the coin comparator plug off everything should register credits that is smaller than the sample coin -
providing the coin encoder is the correct size.
However, I just pulled the rake off of mine, pulled the coin comparator harness from
the CC and the coins drop into the hopper - but I'm not registering credits either!?!

I know the coin-in optics is okay....It just worked before I pulled the harness.
In fact, when I put the coin comparator harness back on - it registered credits.
But because I have an american coin as a sample coin - it wouldn't register canadian coins.

[Jim]

   mark, is  q-2 or  q-4  still on your optic board?   

[stayouttadabunker]

Good question...!
I will check them though right now.

[stayouttadabunker]

Yep...The Q2's are still in it.
These are standard un-modified coin-in optics.
I'm also using SBA  .899-1.055   .25cent encoders.
I don't have any canadian nickels to try though....

[Jim]

that's the reason right there.   when we replaced the cc-16d's with IMONEX acceptors we had to remove Q-2 , Q-4 or the diode /555timer version.,  this corrected every problem we had with intermittent acceptance. The optics and the game function as advertised, no difference at all. 

[stayouttadabunker]

I have another known set of coin-in optics WITHOUT the Q2's...
want me try it?

[MarkC]

Thanks for the replies so far.. below are my results.  I don't think my coin-in optics are modified at all.  Although I'm a newbie to this stuff so I can't even tell how to get the board off the machine.

Larger nickel in comparitor: 20 larger nickels credited, 20 smaller nickels non-credited
Smaller nickel in comparitor: 20 smaller nickels credited, 20 larger non-credited

All fall into into the hopper because of the rake being removed. Larger nickels do not jamb when when a smaller one is in the comparitor. Comparitor turned all the way counter-clockwise ( - ).

Darn Canadian nickels..

[stayouttadabunker]

Thanks for the results...I'm snipping off a Q2 as we speak...

[stayouttadabunker]

 

BINGO!! I threw in a coin-in optic with the snipped off Q2 and
the coin comparitor harness removed...
This machine takes Canadian quarters even though I have
an American sample coin in the coin comparator!
( This coin-in optic boards will never see a live casino floor however...lol)

Cut your Q2's off man! 

FYI>>> They're located on the board that the harness plugs into and
the Q2 is the tiny little diode right in between the 3 optics.
Snip it off with the point of a sharp Exacto knife or a pair of small shears.