IGT S+ accepts all coins as credits

[WELLMAN]

Hey guys,  I have an IGT S+ that is accepting all coins as credits.  It's a .25 but accepts nickles and dimes as credits and drops them in the hopper.  I've already switched the comparator out with one from a working machine.  The new comparator does the same thing and my comparator works just fine in the other machine.  Not sure what to try next?  Thanks

[AffordableSlots]

I would check your coin diverter solenoid that is under your coin comparitor. It sounds like it is stuck and letting all the coins go through into the hopper and not diverting the coins it should.

[WELLMAN]

Isn't the only "diverter" befor the optics the rake on the back of the comparator?  It's working fine because it rejects or diverts coins for every other reason it should.  E.g when three credits have been bet, the power is off, the wheels are spinning or when the comparators unplugged.

[Buzz]

Problem has to be the rake is open at all times.   http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?action=profile;u=209;sa=showPosts

[WELLMAN]

I ran the harness for the comparator out the open front glass and closed the door.  I watched the rake pop open and stay open as soon as the machine was ready to go.  Put a dollar in the BV and hit the bet one credit button 3 times and the rake closes.  While the reels are spinning the rake is closed.  Door open rake is closed.  Any time the machine is ready to accept coins the rake opens.

[Buzz]

Remove the comparator from the machine and hold it with the sample coin facing you. The rake should be closed, drop in any size coin and watch it's path of travel. It will come out of the bottom of comparator on the right side and go to the tray.  Now  holding the rake open drop another coin in and it will come out the left side and go to the coin optics/ hopper.

What you have described on your machine is the rake is working backwards. The only thing I can think that would cause this is the two Gray wires on the comparator have been reversed. try turning the plug and see what happens.

[Jim]

did you swap the entire cc/coin optic unit from one machine to the other?  this would establish if the problem is in that unit or elsewhere.

what you described was backwards from the way it should work.  Is the wiring for the cc plug good?  Pins 1 ans 3 should have a red wire loop on them.  pin 2 is a purple wire (sense line from optics) pin 4 yellow wire (24vac in)  pin5 n/c/,  pin 6  black (ground).

Jim
 

[WELLMAN]

I swapped the coin comparator assembly, not the optics mounted below it.  I actually put two comparators it, only to have it do the same thing.  I checked the comparator plug and it is wired just as you described.  Also guys, this machine worked fine for years, this just happend out of nowhere.  No one has been in the machine to swap any wires.  Thanks

[Jim]

It only takes five minutes to swap out the entire unit. two screws at the top , and unplug and remove.  you can operate the whole unit outside the machine as you did for the cc.  the only way to rule out what the problem, is to swap the unit, optics plug etc.

then you will know with out a doubt where the problem is.

What type of optics do you have?  If the wiring is good and the cc is good then logically it would seem that the optics are the problem.

[WELLMAN]

How do I identify what type of optics I have.  Right now I'm unable to swap the optics as the machine I swapped the cc with belonged to a dealer i took my machine to in another town.  Thanks

[stayouttadabunker]

Take a picture of it and we will tell you exactly what it is.
Also, it doesn't really matter if the machine accepts all coins as credits for home use.
I'd be mad if it DIDN'T accept coins....lol

[Jim]

If the optics are indeed bad, most are surface mounted electronics, you are probably going to have to replace them
. So ....  take a picture of the optics in your machine, so we can see what type it is   or....    if its a ten pin plug on the optics ,, order that style.

the only wire that makes a difference in this case is the purple sense wire,  you can remove it from the plug, (use an exacto knife to depress the retaining tab and pull it out from the housing)  and see if the unit will function normally. you might get a code 21, but lets see if we can get the cc to work as it should.

Is the problem that big of a concern??   who is going to put pennies and nickles into a machine that is set up for quarters? 99% of the people who use these machines in a home environment  use the coins provided by the owner.  

[stayouttadabunker]

I would like to add that I just physically changed the 2 gray wires in
the Molex connector on my coin comparator to see what would happen right? 

I must report that there's absolutely no change and the rake functions
as it properly should - no matter which way the two gray wires are configured.

In other words, the rake solenoid remained un-energized until...
the moment I dropped a coin through it.
When I dropped a coin thru - the rake opened momentarily to allow
the good coin to fall through.
This is the way a rake should work...

I'm suspecting a bad diode or switch triac on the MPU at this time since he's already tried another CC ?
It's not allowing the rake's solenoid to de-energize?
Does the questionable CC work in a known good machine?

[brichter]

Is the problem that big of a concern??   who is going to put pennies and nickles into a machine that is set up for quarters?

I'll bet I can call this in one word: Kids. 

[WELLMAN]

It is a tin pin plug for sure.  The problem is not a big concern, this machine is for personal use.  Who puts nickles and dime in the machine?  Kids and drunks I presume, I tried the honor system but it didn't work.  My problem isn't the bad coins going in, it's the bad coins jamming the hopper and tearing up the hopper knife.  

[WELLMAN]

Does the questionable CC work in a known good machine?

Yes it does

[Jim]

could you remove the black cover from the optics , it slides up and off the optic, so we could see the circuits.

[WELLMAN]

I removed the purple wire from the cc plug.  No change in the comparator's action , just a 21 code when the coin went threw the optics.

[Jim]

   this makes no sense at all. the reason I make this statment!  in effect we have removed all inter-action between the optics and the cc. we only have the red loop hooked up , the ground (black) and the yellow ( 24vac). if you closed the door and ran the connector out thru the open belly  you should be able to test this as a free standing device. Meaning: when you put a coin in that matches the sample coin it should open the rake allow the coin to pass and de-energize. this is how you can normally test a cc out of the machine. apply 24vac to it and watch it operate. 

could the sensitivity adjustment have any bearing on this ? it should be adjusted full ccw.

[Buzz]

WELLMAN  I need to ask you a dumb question. Are we on the same page as to what is open or closed in regards to the rake?  I'm attaching a Pic. of a different CC than you have, but the rake is in what we call the closed position.

[WELLMAN]

Buzz, yes my unit is in closed position until its ready to accept coins, then it jumps open and stays there.  I can even feel a little buzz from it.

[WELLMAN]

  this makes no sense at all. the reason I make this statment!  in effect we have removed all inter-action between the optics and the cc. we only have the red loop hooked up , the ground (black) and the yellow ( 24vac). if you closed the door and ran the connector out thru the open belly  you should be able to test this as a free standing device. Meaning: when you put a coin in that matches the sample coin it should open the rake allow the coin to pass and de-energize. this is how you can normally test a cc out of the machine. apply 24vac to it and watch it operate. 

could the sensitivity adjustment have any bearing on this ? it should be adjusted full ccw.

Jim, something in the machine is sending the cc a signal or aleast cutting the power to the cc.  Because right now I have the purple wire disconnected.  When I load credits with the BV, then press the bet one credit button three times so that the game is no longer expecting coins, boom the rake closes and all coins are now rejected to the tray.  And this is not intermittent, if the deposit coin light is on, the all coins go in the hopper.  Deposit coin light is out, they go to the tray.

[stayouttadabunker]

When I load credits with the BV,then press the bet one credit button three times so that the
game is no longer expecting coins, boom the rake closes and all coins are now rejected to the tray. 

If you've previously pressed a button on the deck to add credits (Bet One Credit or Max Bet buttons)
from the credit display meter, the rake will indeed remain closed until you complete the game
with the credits you've already added.
That is normal operation.

It will not accept any more coins through the coin-In optics because
it already has credits in the system ready to play the game.
Therefore, the comparator rake will stay closed and all coins will drop to the tray.

When the game is complete, the comparator rake will be closed until you drop a coin or 2 two - at that point,
the rake will momentarily open allowing the good coins to pass through the entire coin mech system
and drop either into the tray or the drop box depending on how many coins are in the hopper.

However, if you've only added let's say 2 credits from the credit display meter using the Bet One Credit button
and it's a 3 coin game - the comparator rake should allow you to add 1 more credit only
through the coin mech system to complete the Max bet allowed.

[knagl]

However, if you've only added let's say 2 credits from the credit display meter using the Bet One Credit button and it's a 3 coin game - the comparator rake should allow you to add 1 more credit only through the coin mech system to complete the Max bet allowed.

But the rake will still normally be closed (even if another coin can be inserted) unless it has just tested a coin and it passes the test, right?

[Buzz]

Someone correct if I'm wrong. The rake always remains in the closed position, always. The only thing controlling the rake is the comparator. The MPU, the coin optics, the hopper, have nothing to do with the operation of the rake. But are we forgetting that little bitty spring that keeps the rake closed? Wellman did state that this CC did work in another machine. I think it needs tested again.
The only other thing I can think of is test the ground wire where it goes into the comparator. A bad ground can cause all kinds of funny things.

I will read the responce from the Command center in about 3 1/2 hours.