SAS Host controller DLL. What do you want to see?

[AndyP]

Hi Andy.  Thanks for the info on the converters. How is the converter PN: 75421603  implimented. They are only used with the GameKing/iGame or Multistar I think yours are called and the S2000s right?  I know the AVPs have an rs232 daughter card, a fiber optic daughter card, a progressive daughter card and an optional rs485 card. I may be forgetting about one.

Anybody have schematics for this board, PN: 75421603?
Also, where does the power connect? I see the Molex Mini Fit Sr  white 1x2 connector on the card which is for power, but where does the other end connect to? What kind of connector is on the other end of this power cable?

Thanks,
Eric

I actually lied to you. The ones currently in use have an rj11 rather than the 5 pin connector. IGT has an older protocol called DUCMS, and those machines used that particular converter with 5 pin connector.

The FO converters we use a compulsory in QCOM machines. In the AVP machine I have, it has a special interface card that has 5 10pin connectors for X-Series protocol, and one rj-11 for QCOM Protocol. Most machines have some sort of backplane with and rs232 port on, and they supply cable that connects to the FO converter.

I do have the schematics somewhere, will see if I can find them. Will also post us some schematics of mine.

This whole concept was discussed a long time ago by me and at time we really had no solution but here is the thread: http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=4255.msg35924#msg35924

I had a quick look at that thread, DBA I assume is a bill validator. No idea what a 'scrip' is. Most bill validators these days will read a barcode, thats all you need. If your not using currency, you would be mad to use something that cant be validated against a host controller. Currency is fairly complicated these days, and has a lot of built in security. Play money doesn't.

[Forrhouse]

Hi Ian. Hi Andy.  Thank you both for the schematics & info.  Andy, that would be great if you could post those schematics when you get a chance.
I was confused on those fiber converters because I couldn't figure out why they would be used with the i960 platform when there is fiber on the comms board.
I thought for a minute I might have been missing something.  The question now is which is the best fiber card to use with the S+/PE+ platform. Maybe the one you designed Andy?
WIll any of those allow a ticket printer to work with the S+/PE+ platform or would you stilll need to convert DCS to rs232?   If not what would be needed?
I would love to see a pic of the AVP card that that has the 5 10pin connectors for X-Series protocol, and the one rj-11 connector.
I am building an AVP, but am stuck finding an affordable place to have a few metal parts made to replace some missing ones.
Is this card standard in the AVP or is custom made for the the  X-Series protocol and the QCOM Protocol that you use.
Thanks,
Eric

PS: For those who want it, here is an EZ-Pay ticket template and a place that prints the tickets for you.

[AndyP]

Hi Ian. Hi Andy.  Thank you both for the schematics & info.  Andy, that would be great if you could post those schematics when you get a chance.
I was confused on those fiber converters because I couldn't figure out why they would be used with the i960 platform when there is fiber on the comms board.
I thought for a minute I might have been missing something.  The question now is which is the best fiber card to use with the S+/PE+ platform. Maybe the one you designed Andy?
WIll any of those allow a ticket printer to work with the S+/PE+ platform or would you stilll need to convert DCS to rs232?   If not what would be needed?
I would love to see a pic of the AVP card that that has the 5 10pin connectors for X-Series protocol, and the one rj-11 connector.
I am building an AVP, but am stuck finding an affordable place to have a few metal parts made to replace some missing ones.
Is this card standard in the AVP or is custom made for the the  X-Series protocol and the QCOM Protocol that you use.
Thanks,
Eric

PS: For those who want it, here is an EZ-Pay ticket template and a place that prints the tickets for you.

I will dig out the schematics this week.

The AVP backplane has from memory 5 connectors for comms. I have 3 different cards that plug into it, a QCOM and x-Series card that I doubt you will see outside Australia and New Zealand, a rs232 card and a fibre optic card. I think my phone camera is buggered, but I will try work something out and get some pics for you. Might be a good excuse to replace my phone!

I cant tell you anything about s+ or pe+ or DCS because I am not familiar with them. IF I can get some schematics for DCS port on a motherboard I should be able to figure it out. Either that or if someone has a DCS converter that I can reverse engineer..

[TZtech]

Hello All

Just a quick recap

For I960 Platform  (S2000,Vision,Reeltouch and I Game 039 and 044)
The wiring harness as illustrated by SB and as Indicated by Foster and Myself will work
17" I Game - Tested OK (Me) 039 board with EFT SW (Red Menu)
S2000        - Tested OK (Foster)

Use channel3 in SAS options and plug into RS232 port on comms board.

For 8032 Platform (S+ and PE+)

These machines have a DCS port on the motherboard. The DCS signals need to be converted to RS232 levels to communicate with app. Our options are
1. DCS to RS232 converter (Pics posted by SB). This will probably be the easiest to use but we need a schematic for this board and the wiring diagram from motherboard to this board (If we can get board schematics this is not critical)

2. It may also be possible to use the DCS to fiber converter (Pics posted by ForrHouse)with a RS232 to fibre converter on the PC side

3. Custom build a interface board

Ian

[TZtech]

Forrhouse

Not great quality but have attached some details on the various Interface card options for AVP

AndyP

The DCS port on the S+/PE+ - Think you are correct about it being a current loop interface. Refer to attached for the interface on machine side. If you have any circuits for current loop to RS232 interfacing that would be great.

Ian

[Forrhouse]

Hi Ian.  I found a ttl current loop (20ma) to rs232 schematic. This is the 1st file.

The 2nd file, is a zip file containg current loop to rs232 schematics, but need to be opened in Eagle pcb layout software.  Maybe someone can convert the schematic file to .png or .jpg.
.png would be better resolution.

Eric

[Forrhouse]

Here is one that is rs-232 to current loop.  Maybe it can be modified to current loop to rs232.
If it can be modified, I like this one because it has some kind of protection so that you don't damage things on the rs232 end.
E~

Another thought is to combine the dcs converter and the current loop to rs-232 interface.

[TZtech]

Eric

Thanks for the schematics. The first one confirms what Andy said in one of his posts that a couple of optocouplers will do the trick.

Still looking for schematics for the official IGT DCS to RS232 converter board that SB posted photos of - I think you mentioned that you also had one of these.

Ian

[Forrhouse]

Ian.  No problem, and yes, I do have some of those DCS boards, but except for about 100 boxes I can't even look for the box they're in. It's bugging me because now I want to find them. They are realy simple boards though.   Finding where each traces goes shouldn't be difficult, maybe a couple hours worth of work at most.  It's only a 2 layer board. When I get my storage cleaned up so that I can actually walk in instead of just stand at the entrance, that will be a great day. Lol. 
 Eric

[AndyP]

Eric

Thanks for the schematics. The first one confirms what Andy said in one of his posts that a couple of optocouplers will do the trick.

Still looking for schematics for the official IGT DCS to RS232 converter board that SB posted photos of - I think you mentioned that you also had one of these.

Ian

Based on the schematic you sent me, the DCS is most definatly current loop. Fortunatly I have some experience in this field, as one of my clients still has machines that use current loop interfaces, and I just designed the current loop parts in a new interface card for them! Looking at that schematic, there is two transmit and to recieve lines, each has different specs, so just need to figure out which one is used for SAS. Also, I can tell what the part number is on u47, maybe 2681 but the pinouts dont seem to match up with the datasheets I looked at.

You can buy current loop converters off the shelf, so shouldn't be to much of an issue.

I have to do some software upgrades for some clients tomorrow morning at 2am (damn casinos being open 24/7) so this will put me out of action for the next three days. I will photograph what interfaces I have after all the dust settles. I am going to be to busy in the mean time.

[AndyP]

Got a question for all of you. I need to put some restrictions on the DLL to prevent people using it for commercial applications. Obviously I have a commercial interest in this product, so I dont want to see it used for commercial purposes.

I was thinking about restricting the number of machines the one port can poll. What is the max number all of you would estimate for hobby usage? Any other ideas?

[stayouttadabunker]

Your Test App will never "go commercial" in North American casinos unless it gets approved by the all the various gaming commissions.
I cannot imagine the red tape the App needs to go through to get passed...

For the home market...that's a different story and probably highly illegal?
I have no idea...

you might need legal advice?

[Foster]

I doubt it would be illegal for home use.
Fair use comes to mind.

Now a determined hobbyist or engineer could break down the protocols with the right test and data capture stuff.
I had thought of doing that but I would not even know what hardware could decode the data so I can analyze it.

[jay]

I would suggest that you create a license key that ties to the PC that its run on.
That way if you sell a person a 8 machine license they can't resell it, and they can't do multiple installations with it because it only works on the one PC.
People tend to use the CPU serial number for this combined with factors like the number of reported sectors on a hard drive.

This way even if someone images the machine the key won't work.

You could allow up to 4 machines to work without requiring a license. Did I mention I have 4 machines ??
The reason for this is that you don't spend your life issuing license keys for demo copies.

[brichter]

I would suggest that you create a license key that ties to the PC that its run on.
That way if you sell a person a 8 machine license they can't resell it, and they can't do multiple installations with it because it only works on the one PC.
People tend to use the CPU serial number for this combined with factors like the number of reported sectors on a hard drive.

This way even if someone images the machine the key won't work.

You could allow up to 4 machines to work without requiring a license. Did I mention I have 4 machines ??
The reason for this is that you don't spend your life issuing license keys for demo copies.

Then a new hard drive would invalidate the license... the current MicroShaft model. That would be a pain in the butt. MAC address and/or CPU S/N would be better, it would take a new computer to change those unless someone did a CPU upgrade.   

For the longest time, our licenses were based on MAC address.

They still are somewhat, but it's the MAC address plus a seed consisting of some other not-likely-to-change variables ( ) hashed together to calculate a license MAC, or the S/N plus another set of not-likely-to-change variables ( ) hashed together to calculate a license.

[AndyP]

I just noticed some schematics in the back of the SAS doco. One of the fibre interfaces seems to match up with the DCS pinout names! I'll extract it out of the PDF soon and post it up.

[AndyP]

Your Test App will never "go commercial" in North American casinos unless it gets approved by the all the various gaming commissions.
I cannot imagine the red tape the App needs to go through to get passed...

For the home market...that's a different story and probably highly illegal?
I have no idea...

you might need legal advice?

Its not the test app, its the library I am creating. Its not my aim to put it into a casino, the idea here is to sell the library to developers of systems that use SAS. Therefore regulation control becomes an issue for the developer. What I am trying to protect here is my interested in the use of the DLL to prevent it being used for commercial purposes. SAS is all around the world, not just the US. I have had numerous people contact me since I joined the forum asking for me to hand out information for their commercial usage, so I know that people want this stuff.  The DLL would be of no use to a major casino, but it would be handy for smaller venues. The DLL is just an interface to the library I have written.

I am not going to lock it to hard drives or whatever, because then I need to manage licences etc. Its too hard. When I develop libraries for this stuff all we do is sell a single development licence for the user to do what they want with it.

Anyway, its just something that is in the back of my mind. Not to important at this stage because its far from being able to be used in a commercial sense.

[Forrhouse]

I have 4 video machines and I am building  2 more.  I have 11 reel based machines that are brand X, 12 that are brand Y,   10 reel based machines that are brand Z,   5  reel based machines that are brand XY,   5 reel based machines that are brand YZ and Someday I want to add 4 bluebirds and 4 Alphas and maybe a few more of brand Y.  I would like to have the ability to get the machines to work with system all at once.  I'm dreaming of a house with a basement someday instead of having most of the above in storage.

The only thing I don't like about the copy protection previously discussed is that should the computer break down and be un-repairable,  then the software won't be usable.
I have several pieces of expensive pro audio software that are great, but the companies went out of business.  Hence, I am stuck with Nothing. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying don't protect it. For commercial purposes it's great, but for a home user it could cause future issues.

E~

[next_gaming]

Hello

Congratulations about this project, i work whit sas too in the past, please see the picture about the pinout for the tester interface, sorry for design but i try to make faster, but really works.


Best Regards

Next G

[jay]

Bill,

Most PC drivers do allow you to specify a custom mac address. As long as the two machines are not on the physical network you would be able to fake it. Most people don't know how to do this so its security based on obscurity. I still think a hash related to some other component would be best. Perhaps the CPU serial number and not the HD.

[brichter]

Bill,

Most PC drivers do allow you to specify a custom mac address. As long as the two machines are not on the physical network you would be able to fake it. Most people don't know how to do this so its security based on obscurity. I still think a hash related to some other component would be best. Perhaps the CPU serial number and not the HD.

Linux allows you to spoof the MAC as well, but there are hooks in both OSes to pull the BIA (real MAC) without the driver-specified MAC interfering. 

[TZtech]

Next G

Thanks for that Info. That will allow members that do have the IGT converter board to get their PE+ and S+ working.


SB

Ready for some more harness building
Have you managed to get the app working on your PC?

[next_gaming]

Hello

Works perfect in s+ and poker, i don´t try this application yet, but i will, i used this board in the past for my application made on VB6, for wms 550 you have 2 options.

Single interface whit Max232, or direct signals on backplane RX TX Ground, the commands are the same for sas.


Best Regards 

Next G

[next_gaming]

Hello

This is the properly connector to plug the interface on poker machines maybe helps.

[TZtech]

Hello NextG

Thanks for that info - I think so far we only have IGT confirmed interface detail and tested on the app. Would be nice to get details for  WMS and Bally.

Do you maybe have schematics for that board. I dont have one and would like to get my PE+ plus talking to the app.

Ian