SAS Host controller DLL. What do you want to see?

[jdkmunch]

OK -   Here's my idea until we can crack the TITO algorithm  - 

Trying to overcome huge obstacles here - 

1 - had to dig up serial cables
2 - had to hack some cable to fit into the S2000
3 - find a computer with a serial port

NOW the hdd in the laptop with the serial port died  - so I'm stuck until I get the USB to Serial adapter.

[AndyP]

TITO algorithm is cracked, just not coded.

What I will do in the next release is allow support for one ticket to be printed, then redeemed. I will also start thinking about a back end so the printed tickets can be stored in a database. I will be using microsoft sql server for this, and it may even find its way into the next test app.

BTW. That installer thing forcing .net 4 framework to be installed is a known microsoft bug. I cant do anything about it at this point

[jdkmunch]

That's great news...


We have to get bluebirds to print tickets now !

[jdkmunch]

Is this the s+ communication board?

Yes, it appears to be the fiber board. There will be  2 fiber jacks on the top end and 2 on the right side (based on the orientation of your picture)

Thanks Poppo -  I took the cover off and it is a communications board  -  too bad it's fiber.    I'm not hot on fiber.   Aren't the cables really expensive?  They look like ST connections.

[jay]

Fiber cables are NOT expensive depending on where you buy them.

If you go to cost-co or best buy and get a HDMI cable you can expect to pay a min of $29 for a cable. I am sure they have "hi speed" cables for up to $100.
HDMI is a spec. NO such thing as one cable being more hi-speed than another. Sure there are quality differences from cable to cable but a lot is bluster and Bulls**t.
You can get HDMI cables at mono-price www.monoprice.com for $6-12. This is just an example of how different retailers rip us off.

Fiber optic cables have different types of connectors. ST (standard twist) seem about right for this era. SC (Standard clip) and LC (Little Clip) are too new.
I might suggest triangle cables for these. www.trianglecables.com or if your in Canada www.albertacomputercable.com

Rs232 is singluar and the fiber will allow us multi-drop capabilities.
Even if Andy doesn't get fiber worked into the next release if he puts polling in place where we set a min-max address rather than specific addresses. This will get us a lot closer to a multi-machine capabilitiy.

[poppo]

MAX232 ADVISORY!!!!

Ok, I ran into an issue today. I went to make a second cable for my other S+ and could not get it to work. I was geting random replies. I used my original MAX232 cable and it works fine. So it is in the MAX232 setup. I even added the hex inverters but it was a no go. I'm a bit puzzled on this one and I have a feeling it has to do with the MAX232 capaicitors I used in the original vice the second unit. I'll report back when I figure out just what the problem is.


<edit> Problem solved. The MAX232 converter I was using was a pre-built one from another one of my many projects. It was uising 47uf capacitors for some reason.  They need to be .1uf.
All is well now.  So this is two S+ machines that work with just a MAX232 and nothing else.

Here is an updated schematic of the MAX232 interface. It is slightly different than the one posted earlier, but its what I am actually using. I don't know if pins 4-6 and 7-8 on the DB9 need to be jumpered for this to work or not, but they are on mine.

[AndyP]

The fibre optic cables are avago versalink or versatile link, formerly agilent, formerly hp. The connectors are versatile link connectors.

First google link: http://www.i-fiberoptics.com/patchcords.php?id=1

[poppo]

It would seem everyone is keen to start using fibre. Its a pretty simple mod so I might add the ability to poll with fibre in the next version too.

I think there are some issues that need to be addressed, specifically for the S+ folks (since I don't know if S2000 has fiber built in).

1. Where are people going to get the fiber boards?
2. How will they interface it with the PC (i.e. exactly what hardware will be needed on that end)?

It will be great to have support for fiber, but it will be usless if people don't have a way to connect to their machines.

[Foster]

It would not be that hard to get the fiber TX and RX components and build a RS232 to Fiber interface.
In fact the S2000 comm board and the S+ DCS to Fiber schematics can be used to help design one.

[jay]

This has been my question for a bit.
We will need to be building a RS232 to Fiber connection or buy a convertor.
I have a Rs232 to fiber convertor but have always used these in pairs so I can run from one side of a plant to another.
. Rs232--Fiber--Rs232

I would be very surprized if this was an open archtiecture that would take Rs232 and convert to a fiber that is useable on the slots.

[poppo]

IT would not be that hard to get the fiber TX and RX components and build a RS232 to Fiber interface

I agree, but the average person will not want to build their own. I guess I feel like people are putting the wagon before the horse.

[poppo]

This has been my question for a bit.
We will need to be building a RS232 to Fiber connection or buy a convertor.
I have a Rs232 to fiber convertor but have always used these in pairs so I can run from one side of a plant to another.
. Rs232--Fiber--Rs232

I would be very surprized if this was an open archtiecture that would take Rs232 and convert to a fiber that is useable on the slots.

Even if one has a RS232 to fiber converter, it still needs to be converted in the machine and also forwarded on and back. That is why I was leaning toward a modified fiber board in the first machine using RS232, and then using standard fiber boards from then on down the line. BUT can we even find OEM fiber boards in quantity?

[stayouttadabunker]

What's the advantages and dis-advantages of using fiber optics?
Personally, I love the modified serial cables devised by our NLG members thus far.
It's not so hard to make and it plugs into my computer nicely without any other crap.  

[poppo]

What's the advantages and dis-advantages of using fiber optics?
Personally, I love the modified serial cables devised by our NLG members thus far.
It's not so hard to make and it plugs into my computer nicely without any other crap.  

The main advantage is daisy chaining. While I am no expert on TITO, I think the machines will all need to talk to a 'server' at the same time to be able to transfer credits from one machine to another. The disadvantage is finding the fiber hardware to make it work.

For someone like me who only has a few S+ machines with no TITO, it is easy enough to just use a RS232 and a switch box to flip between machines. I have both of my S+ machines working with the test app and it cost me less than $10 and I started from scratch. But until the test app supports EFT, there is limited use of it unless you have a SP that supports SAS bonusing, and that seems to be mostly confined to 16mhz boards and only a handful of SP chips.

I really can't speak for the S2000 folks since I really have no experience with those machines.

[AndyP]

Should be able to make it multidrop it with RS232 now I think about it. Will need to feed tx from pc, to rx of machine one, tx of machine one to rx of machine 2 tx of machine 2 to rx of pc. Same way they do it with fibre. You would need an or gate on the logic side of the rs232 to feed data into the loop.

[AndyP]

Here is a very, VERY rough sketch using my freehand mspaint skills. I have some good CAD tools for this, if I have time I will do something a little better.

[poppo]

Should be able to make it multidrop it with RS232 now I think about it. Will need to feed tx from pc, to rx of machine one, tx of machine one to rx of machine 2 tx of machine 2 to rx of pc. Same way they do it with fibre. You would need an or gate on the logic side of the rs232 to feed data into the loop.

I don't think it's quite that simple. If you send a command, it needs to go to the RX line of ALL of the machines.  If you send a command to the RX line of machine #1 and take take the TX line from that and send it to the next one, you will also be sending the responce from machine #1 which will be meaningless to machine #2 and can make it produce a bogus reply. That in turn goes to the next machine and so on, which by the time it gets to the last machine will be mostly garbage data. And by combining the TX and RX on the same line as you are doing, any unexpected data from a machine (i.e. door open) can get sent at the same time as a command that you are trying to send from the host, and that will cause that command to be jumbled since they will be mixed with your OR gate.

As I indicated earlier the data sent needs to go to the RX line of ALL machines. This is the easier part because it is like shouting into a room where you want eveyone to hear you.  And then the individual responses need to be sent back on the TX line (of the machines). This is where you will need some logic gates to prevent problems since you can't just tie them all together. This is also not without issues too, since a reply can be coming down the line when another event happens (i.e. machine #3 is sending EFT data when machine #2 opens it's door and now you have a garbage packet back at the host). This is why it looks like the fiber board has some logic in it to prevent data from being sent back to the host if the line is already in use.

Also TTL level signals don't like to be sent long distances (more than a few feet at best). That is why fiber is best, or one would need to convert back to RS232 on each machine. BTW, they use separate TX and RX fiber lines exactly for the reasons mentioned above. I already posted the schematics of the fiber interface and of a modified RS232 to fiber link.

Here is my simplified drawing of the concept. Note how data sent TO the machines is simple. It just send it to all of them at the same time. The returning data however needs to be 'combined' with some OR gates or other logic. The bottom line (IMO) is the TX and RX lines (and data) need to be kept seperate. This is not going to be that simple to just throw together.

[Ron (r273)]

Is this the s+ communication board?

To back track a little the manual "S-Plus with Imbedded Bill Acceptor, Field Service Manual" shows
the Fiber-Optic Interface board. Pages 5-163 though 5-171.

Ron (r273)

[stayouttadabunker]

This is a complete Fiber Optics kit I got a few yrs ago.
The board is ASSY NO: 7543360.
Does anyone have any more info on it? 
It never came with a manual...
Click on photos to enlarge...>>>

[poppo]

This is a complete Fiber Optics kit I got a few yrs ago.
The board is ASSY NO: 7543360.
Does anyone have any more info on it? 
It never came with a manual...
Click on photos to enlarge...>>>

The LTC941 near the RJ jacks is described as:

"Designed for RS485 or RS422 Applications. The LTC491 is a low power differential bus/line transceiver designed for multipoint data transmission standard RS485 applications with extended common mode range (12V to –7V). It also meets the requirements of RS422"

But your guess is as as good as mine as to what it's actually used for besides the obvious signal conversion.

[stayouttadabunker]

Probably converts the fiber optics into telephone jacks to plug directly into the computer.
The fiber cables as I understand come from the S+ or S2000's fiber interfaces into this board
then go out via the ethernet lines to the nearby machines
then out to the hub which go to the back room.

[poppo]

Probably converts the fiber optics into telephone jacks to plug directly into the computer.
The fiber cables as I understand come from the S+ or S2000's fiber interfaces into this board
then go out via the ethernet lines to the nearby machines
then out to the hub which go to the back room.

This is where things like this gets complicated and the software and hardware are usually developed at the same time. Custom software often needs custom hardware, and custom hardware will need custom software.

[stayouttadabunker]

Powerstroke had tons of this stuff brand new in plastic bags and anti-static bags...
I don't know if he still has any...might of thrown it out as no one knew how to hook it up.
It comes with a ton of wiring and connectors.
I'd say let's give him some business and buy some of it from him and fiddle with it?
I just hope I didn't rob any of the connectors and harnesses for something else! 

This stuff plugs into the DPE I posted in Reply#142...
I think it can handle the player tracking stuff as well as progressives.
There's more info on it in this thread >>>


http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?topic=6172.msg55093#new

[Stolistic]

What I will do in the next release is allow support for one ticket to be printed, then redeemed. I will also start thinking about a back end so the printed tickets can be stored in a database. I will be using microsoft sql server for this, and it may even find its way into the next test app.

Andy you may want to use SQLEXPRESS instead since the masses may not have access to a full version of SQL Server (or use MySQL).  I would be interested in playing around with integrating the DLL with MAME sometime to allow the two to talk to each other.  But it would require changing the COM output to use a different means of communication like Windows messaging.  Send me a PM if you would like to discuss sometime.  I am fairly versed in C# .NET too.

[jay]

I was able to pick up 5 Rs232 and 2 FO boards with one phone call.
It would be my conjecture that any S+ that had player tracking or Cash Management would have had one of the SAS boards. I suspect there have been millions of these thrown out as the machines are shopped for resale.

Much of this discussion comes back to the basics of the slot communication.
RS232 is normally defined as a 1:1 communications protocol Ie PC to Modem.

In a DCS controls system (for chemical plant, refineries, manufacturing etc) Rs422 or Rs485 is used because its designed to be multi-dropped.
With these protcols - Commands are sent out from the host controller. Ie Valve 01 OPEN, or Valve 02 CLOSE.
The standard is that there is no event driven activity.    Ie someone comes along and manually opens Valve 02.
The valve would not proactively report its activity.

The controller would send a poll command and say Valve 01 Please report your open/close status.... (or the electronic version there of). It would then wait for the response and then poll the next valve.

In more advanced devices that perhaps have a bunch of states rather than open/close there could be a event flag. This would allow the controller to poll all the devices looking for the event flag and then more deeply query the device that has the flag.

In our case if someone put in ticket to a bill validator - the validator doesn't start screaming 400 credits !! over here over here.
It waits until the device is polled.

Knowing how the protocol is supposed to behave.....I think I would side with Andy that if we parallel our RX's to all machines - the machine will only listen to SASs commands destinted for the machine  01 (or 02 or 03) so sending out a command will not trigger multiple machines and only one machine will be sending back a TX when it is asked to report. So multiple Tx's back should not happen.