Has anyone converted S+ from DBV to WBA (Moved to IGT from general reel stuff)

[StatFreak]

ORIGINAL THREAD STARTED BY: CaptainHappy « on: February 25, 2006, 11:23:32 AM »


Hi All,       

I have been gone for a few months, and now I am back and excited       to see how well the board has been doing! I was busy and only had a few opportunities to quickly browse while I was gone.

I have a new baby that I am playing with now (slot machine, not child before anyone asks - with all of the time spent on this hobby I would not find the time to make a baby! HA HA! Also, the being single part does not help either!), and I was wondering if anyone has converted a S+ from DBV to WBA very easily, and can pass along what I need to watch out for. The new baby is a MINT condition 25 cent Haywire Round Top with progressive display in the top! (Later I will set it up properly as it alternates from $0.00 to C1 Currently. Mainly because it has a couple thousand credits and is fun to play right now, and I need zero credits on the machine to change options. I wish that you could change alot of the options with credits on the machine, but I can see where it does not make sense in a casino environment!!!!! Only problem is that it is hard to drain the credits since it has a 97% chip in it. I changed it from the 8x%, and saw a huge difference!)

First, I have read several different things, but can someone answer the differences in the different WBAs such as 11, 12, 13... From what I gather it has to do with chips vs. flash, and the ID as well? Which will work in S+ machines and what IDs?

Second, can anyone guide me in changing my machine to this desired setup: I want to change DBV-200 setup to a WBA-13SS setup if it will work. I have heard that it can be done, and I think that I have all of the parts needed.

It should be very simple, but I thought that it would be easier to ask if anyone had done it with good results. Plus there is always one small forgotten step that kills you every time.

As soon as I get some more work caught up I can get back into the board even more. I am glad to see that there are more than a few of us with this obsession!!!

Mark

[StatFreak]

« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2006, 03:17:01 PM »
idesign


Welcome back.

First off, you don't need to drain the credits to set up that progressive.  You need the PSP software and a PC with a serial cable to set it up.

You can change from a DBV200 to a WBA-13 but you need the entire unit including transport, frame and cash can,  power supply, and most important a custom cable to make the S+ connect to the WBA-13.

The WBA-10 and 11 accept bills in one direction vs. 4 directions on the WBA-12 or 13.  The 10 and 12 are flash rom vs. eprom on the 11 and 13.

You really won't find much of a difference beween the DBV-200 and the WBA-13 since they both accept bills the same way.  I find that it's easier to clear a jamb on a WBA since the transport is easier to clear.  The WBA is less prone to jambing with worn bills than the DBV-200.

Hope this helps.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2006, 03:49:53 PM »
CaptainHappy


Thanks for the quick reply! 

I have all that I need with the exception of what you refer to as the custom cable possibly...... do you or anyone else have any details about this cutom cable or hookup instructions? The WBA-13 has a few wires attached to what looks like a serial DB9 style plug of sorts, but there are more connectors on the WBA than wires available on the S+ of similar mating connectors. (I may have to resort to pulling out some schematics unless someone has an easier answer?    ?-?-? ) Any clues?

Also I am not sure if you have to use a set chip or not??? Does the ID matter as well???

Thanks again to all that help and participate in this forumn. I remember finding it the month it started, and it keeps progressing in a positive direction! KUDOS TO ALL! 

[StatFreak]

« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2006, 03:53:34 PM »
rickhunter

Somebody in e-bay is selling one of these WBA-13 harnesses.  They are different for the 10/11's and 12/13's so make sure  you get the right one.

link omitted

[StatFreak]

« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2006, 03:57:40 PM »
idesign


Rick is correct, and yes you will need a set chip to set it up and make sure you have the correct firmware for an S+ in it.  It needs to be a WBA-13SS.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2006, 04:01:51 PM »
rickhunter


the software id for an IGT S+ is ido 022/023.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2006, 05:02:13 PM »
Slotness_Monster

Hi Captain and Welcome back,
Could you help all of us understand WHY you are changing from a DBV to a WBA?

I own machines that have both.

To me . . . . and this is just my impression,
1) Our WBA is slow and prone to jam-ups
2) I love the way Our DBVs 'snatch' the bills out of your hands . . . feeds real fast.

lastly . . . and this is just a pet-peeve . . . . . . .
the DBVs will hold onto the last 1/4" of your rejected bill
while the WBA tosses it to the floor
(like you idiot . . . . don't put this bill back in here)

Later,
'da Monster

[StatFreak]

« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2006, 05:12:20 PM »
idesign


Slotless Monster, what WBA do you have?  Mine are all WBA-11's and all of them hold onto the last 1/4" of the bill.....even old crumpled bills. I just tried it by inserting a bill in backwards knowing it will reject it.

I changed my DBV-200 out to WBA-11 in my S+ because I found that the DBV-200 jammed more with old crumpled bills and it's a real pain in the butt removing them from a DBV-200, especially when it jams between the head and the transport.  The WBA is a snap since the transport has a door on top of it.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2006, 05:58:50 PM »
CaptainHappy


OK... A few questions still open for me.

I have a cable that is connected/screwed to the frame that the transport plug into. I think this may be the harness in question. This then breaks out into 4 connectors connected to the wire harness. The descriptions and colors are listed below in the hopes that I can confirm everything. The power supply has 3 connectors on it, one of which looks like it is the main power and it seems to be the same as the DBV200 power supply connector that connects to the S+. (I have not compared the wires on this, but am I safe to assume it is the same from DBV-200 to WBA for this 9 pin square molex connector? The other wires coming from the power supply will mate with 2 of the connectors on the frame, but one has different colors when mated, and the other has offset colors when mated as can be seen by the descriptions below. I am just trying to be really careful here, so I appreciate if anyone has gone through this and can calm my fears, and get me in the correct path posibly. I am trying to avoid schematics if someone knows this like the back of there hand.

Also before I forget the WBA is labelled with IDO 024, which I know is IGT, but I forget if it is something different model wise??? I forget what I found out about this before... Darn. Do you all think that it will work with the S+? The units I have are definately WBA-13-SS. I am wondering if the ID is different for slots such as S+, and other machines such as Game Kings???? Anybody know for sure off of the top of their head?

Power supply wires:
9 pin square molex. (Main Input?) Colors are sealed inside, so I hope to not open unless really needed.
2 pin connector with pin1=green, pin2=blue
5 pin connector with pin1=no connect, pin2=brown, pin3=red, pin4=orange, pin5=yellow

Frame Wires:

5 pin connector with pin1=no connect, pin1=brown, pin2=red, pin3=orange, pin4=yellow, pin5=green
2 pin connector with pin1=red, pin2=black
4 pin connector with pin1=white, pin2=black, pin3=no connect, pin4=no connect
3 pin connector with pin1=blue, pin2=purple, pin3=grey(dark)

If you mate the connectors on the power supply (labelled IGT p/n: 40810890, APS model # LP30-1131) that fit to the wire harness on the frame (which the transport slides and plugs into) you have the following scenario:

harness side  to  power supply side (pin 1 listed first)

brown               no-connect
red                   brown
orange              red
yellow               orange
green                yellow

here my concern is that the colors do not match, and are "offset"

harness side  to  power supply side (pin 1 listed first)

red                   green
black                 blue

here my concern is that the colors do not match at all

Next concern or question is that the harness is left with two empty unused connectors. (The 3 and 4 pin connectors.) Should these be unused?

The S+ slot also has the 2 wires on a black connector that connect to the DBV head (red/blue and green/blue, all others no connections) that come from buy the door hinge side big wire bundle. Are these connected or not used with the WBA setup???

I hope that this detail is helpful to the experts out there. (If not, I now have a good starting point to drag out the schematics.)

Thanks in advance for all of the help out there. I am trying to work smarter and use resources, rather than having to work harder.

As for the new replies (slotness and idesign) as I was typing and researching...... I have heard that the WBAs are better with older bills, my DBV-200 sometimes eats the bill to the point of ripping it, the WBA is brand new and set for the new 10's!, and I just wanted to procrastinate a bit and play with the toy while learning at the same time!

Have a good weekend.

Mark

[StatFreak]

« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2006, 06:09:35 PM »
rickhunter


for the S+ you will need a different eprom with IDO 022/023, 024 will not work.

THe power supply for the DBV200's and the WBA's are different.  What does it say on the power supplies that are supposed to be for the WBA?

[StatFreak]

« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2006, 06:22:44 PM »
Slotness_Monster

Slot Monster, what WBA do you have?  Mine are all WBA-11's and all of them hold onto the last 1/4" of the bill.....even old crumpled bills. I just tried it by inserting a bill in backwards knowing it will reject it.

I changed my DBV-200 out to WBA-11 in my S+ because I found that the DBV-200 jammed more with old crumpled bills and it's a real pain in the butt removing them from a DBV-200, especially when it jams between the head and the transport.  The WBA is a snap since the transport has a door on top of it.

It's a WBA-13-SS

Jeff, I agree 100% with your removing jams is a snap statement. Even the wife is confident enough to lift the WBA lid and remove the jam-up . . . . . . . . . . . and she 'sports' a $100 nail job!!!

I was just wondering (other than benefitting our Canadian friends), why go thru all the work to change over.

Later,
'da Monster

P.S. The wife will only allow 'pretty' bills in our machines.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2006, 07:11:30 PM »
rickhunter 


I've never had a bill jam in my WBA's (11 and 13).  I only use crisp new bills though.  Not crisp, not good enough for the "piggy bank"

[StatFreak]

« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2006, 07:15:59 PM »
idesign

WBA power supply is silver color, DBV200 is black.  IDO024 is for a Game King, Vison and I-Game machines.  You need IDO22/23 like Rick said.

If you don't have the custom harness it won't work.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2006, 07:22:08 PM »
rickhunter 


To add to idesign's notes.  If your WBA came with the harness and it has an ido 024 prom in it, you will most likely need the harness.  If the WBA came with the power supply already, then it will most likely work.  Can you post a picture of the sticker on the power supply?

[StatFreak]

« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2006, 09:33:16 PM »
CaptainHappy


Hi Again to all,

I finally got a couple of pictures of the wires to show everyone. The pictures of the label on the power supply did not come out well, but it is labelled as follows: power supply (labelled IGT p/n: 40810890, APS model # LP30-1131). Details on the wire colors are earlier in the thread of this post. It is a silver unit, and not a black unit like my DBV-200. Am I safe to assume that they use the same WBA PS for S+ as well as Game King, S-2000 and Vision, etc.?? My WBA-13-SS definately is labelled as IDO-024, but luckily I searched all of my stuff and found one WBA-13-SS Eprom with IDO23!!! I assume that I can just change the Eprom to fix that issue, so all that is open is if the wiring is correct on my unit and power supply, and more importantly what do I hook up where? Thanks in advance to all.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2006, 09:50:39 PM »
rickhunter


1.  Yes all you have to do is change the EPROM to an IDO 022/023 for it to communicate with an S+
2.  The wiring on my S+ with WBA-13 matches your wires.  See picture
3.  The connector with the 3 wires does not get used on the S+
4.  The connector with the 4 pins but only 2 wires goes to the DBV light on the front panel.

So it looks like all you gotta do, is hook it up. White plugs are from the DBV, Black plugs are from power supply and DBV lights on front door.  The big Molex connector on the back is the power supply connected to the S+ harnness.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2006, 10:57:41 PM »
CaptainHappy


Rick,

Thanks for the ultra fast reply.

It looks like I was on the right path all along - almost, I just couldnt get past that the wires on the 5 pin connecters do not match color to color, but are "offset." I was ok with unused connectors.

Also I am going to have to look for a connector for the wires that go to the door bezel since it has the connector that fits the DBV-200 head, although I am thinking that this is the wrong bezel as well. I just noticed that the unit that I am trying to use must be for a slant top style machine judging by the attached bezel. I also have another unit that I can take the bezel off of, but I still think that I may have the wrong piece at the door side!  Do I need a different door light bezel and opening??? OR Do I need a different one on the WBA head side???  How does the bezel on the WBA side light up? I have attached a photo that shows the "slant top" head bezel, and the "upright" bezel as well as the door bezel that I have. Do you have any shots of what you have? I may have to look around for some parts still!

Mark

This is a true learning experience, but you have to learn things some how! 

[StatFreak]

« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2006, 07:37:11 AM »
rickhunter


The bezel on the wba side does not light up on the S+'s.

You can use the bezel from the unit that is just the head.  You should be able to just replace the whole head (the heads between the wba's 10-13 are interchangeable) and not bother moving the "duck bills" back and forth.

Can you send post a picture of the back of the bill entry assembly.  It looks correct, but I would need to see the back to make sure. Or post the part number on the PCB.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2006, 02:34:36 AM »
CaptainHappy


I was thinking that I would be able to use the duck bill entry on the WBA, just like the one on the DBV, but it looks like the WBA entry guide I have is a little bit wider, maybe a milimeter or so. I am still just looking at the parts outside the machine, and have not tried to install anything yet. This is why I assume that it will not work. I wonder if the physical door opening/hole is the same for the S+ and the S-2000. If so, I wonder if I could find a door bezel for an S-2000 that would work??? Maybe then I could get a light working on the entry also?? Any ideas there?  I noticed that the entry bezel on the other unit that I assume is for a slant top has some wire connections maybe for a light in the entry?

On your set-up you hooked up the wires from the door bezel (the green/red and the green/blue to the white and red) I am wondering if your light works, and if you have a newer/different entry??

Here is a picture of the rear of the bill entry assembly. The part number on the PCB is: ASSY NO 7511580, and the black plastic piece is labelled: KSI 652 152 00 REV. The white lite assy has a sticker labelled: 19633900 REV A 9/93.

Thanks again!

[StatFreak]

« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2006, 06:26:56 AM »
rickhunter


That is the correct part number for the bill entry bezel.  The S+ duck bill entries come up on e-bay periodically.  Though I think the green on you have should work.  Give it a try, what have you got to lose?

[StatFreak]

« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2006, 01:31:25 AM »
CaptainHappy


I HAVE JUST NOW FIGURED OUT THAT THE MESSAGE THAT I GOT WHICH IS REFERENCED BELOW WAS FROM A MEMBER ABOUT A THREAD ABOUT DBV PROBLEMS FROM A WHILE AGO. I ASSUMED THAT THE MESSAGE WAS ABOUT MY NEW WBA CONVERSION PROJECT. SO, SORRY IF IT CONFUSED THE ORIGINAL SENDER!

IT WAS GOOD BECAUSE IT MADE ME POST ABOUT MY CONTINUING ISSUES WITH MY DBV TO WBA CONVERSION PROJECT! SEE BELOW:

Message from a fellow forum member to me:

I was reading your posts regarding the problems you were having with the bill acceptor and cash can, etc.  I think I may have the same issue.  The unit cycles and everything, I have used the set chip, but still no light at the slot.  The light is on inside the reader.  It worked intermittendly at best even when I first bought it.  I think it may be the cash can or the housing for it with the little sensor, etc.

Anyway, sorry to go on and on.  What ended up solving your issue?

Thanks.

I Have not had too good of luck here... It looks like you got further than me! Here is where I am at. I am curious about your thoughts after you look over this message. You can PM me, or even post in the thread, it doesnt matter to me. I sorta gave up for now. Here are some of the issues that I came accross this weekend when I tried to install. I will copy this and post it in the thread to let all know of the status.

Regards,

Mark

WBA-13-SS replacing DBV-200 Issues still causing problems:

It was virtually impossible to get the WBA frame into the machine after taking out the DBV frame. (The frame that the Transport assembly sits in.) It needs to be placed in at an angle to get it in, and when you try to put it in on the top the left side of the WBA frame hits a stiffening reinforcer that is under the reel shelf. The frame needs to match up with 2 locator pins in the bottom, so this is pretty hard to force in properly. I had to take some screws out of the reel tray and use some force and a screwdriver to get it to pop in place! I was ecstatic when it finally popped in. I thought that it was all downhill from there......

I had already figured out most of the wiring questions with the help of the most gracious posters helping reinforce what I thought was right even if it did not completely follow color to color standards, so I easily swapped out the power supplies. The only wiring thing left open was the two wires for the door bezel.. I think from memory they were green/red and green/blue? I would need to find a mating connector, and splice away. I figured that I could work on those after I figured out the following door bezel issue.

On my machine the Greenish WBA bill entry would conflict with my door bezel as it was slightly wider than the DBV one! Once I knew it worked, I figure that I could look for the right piece, or I could trim the plastic on the sides of the WBA bezel to make it mate. In the meen time I found that if I removed the door bezel and insert bill light assembly I could then shut the door!!! I was again super happy.... I even thought that I would try to see if it would snatch a bill from me. (I had not done anything with the set chip yet hoping that it may work since the other DBV was set up and working. (I prayed a little) I was hoping since I am not sure which set chip I would need, and I think I only have set chip 15.) Again this would be one of the the next steps after I gave it a quick test!

Nothing happened..... Then a light bulb came on and I realized that I need to throw a cash can in.  I grabbed it and tried to put it in and I discovered that it would not fit in since there is a guide on the bottom of the in machine frame that the bill validator door closes onto. This guide is the right width for a DBV cash can, but I found out that a WBA cash can is a little more than a quarter inch wider so it would not work. This guide is spot welded in, and does not look like it changes!  It was at this point that I gave up and realized that it looks like you also really need to change the external cash can frame in the slot itself for this to work. Everyone I had talked to previously said it was a piece of cake to do this switch, but noone knew that I would have to change that external frame!! I knew that the inner frame had to change! 

(((Before I forget.. What is the WBA cycling like??? Can someone tell me what to expect. I did not see optics for the cash can like the DBV's had. How does it know about the cash can status in the WBA? Do you have any ideas?)))

SO.............. I ripped it all out after some frustration and serious tugging and gave up for the night/weekend. Then I got your message and it sparked my typing my story update and asking all for advice, and information about how others got the WBAs put into their S+ machines. Maybe someone can post what they did, and the problems can be solved and it can benefit the next poor fool who tries to do this. So the big questions are: Is the door light bezel different for the WBAs, and is the External Frame different? (And anything else that comes from what I typed above, anything I missed!?!?!?)

Again and as always thanks to all and have a wonderful day/night!

Mark

[StatFreak]

« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2006, 06:55:26 AM »
rickhunter


The external bezel picture with part# you posted matches my machine which has a WBA DBV in it.  As far as the duck bill, I'm not sure, as mine came with my WBA units. I figured that it was understood that the whole DBV assembly had to be replaced.  Basically you have to remove the whole thing that has the cash can, etc and replace the entire assembly to fit with a WBA and it's cash can and you shouldn't have any issues.  I have completely removed my DBV assembly when I received my machine to clean it up really well and it wasn't all that difficult (at least from my experience).  If you did not get the whole assembly, then you will need to acquire it for it to work properly.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2006, 01:11:57 PM »
CaptainHappy


Rick,

When you talk about the entire assembly are you also talking about the external frame in the S+ that has the Bill Validator Door on it? I was under the impression that you only have to change the inner frame that holds the WBA transport and WBA cash can, but when I do this I run into the problems described. To be very specific I have removed the DBV frame that holds cash can and transport, transport assembly, cash can, and power supply. I will try to put it (external frame no DBV or WBA installed) to pictures later, but I am really wondering about the external frame I discussed above. Was that changed on yours? Maybe there are different revisions of S+ machines that may have different metal work inside?

Thanks, and I will talk to you later.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2006, 03:15:07 PM »
rickhunter 
 

No, not the door part, just the part that holds the cash can.  I'll remove everything and take a picture so you can compare.  I'll do that tonight when I get home and post it here.

[StatFreak]

« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2006, 08:42:34 PM »
rickhunter


Ok, here are the photos.  one with the cash can assembly in place, and the othe with just the "outer" assembly.  The outer assembly only has 2 pegs at the botoom which are clearly seen in the photo.  The cash can holder is secured by a pair of screws which are also clearly seen on the photos.