Bulb help needed

[poppo]

This had me  for a while. Several years ago I picked up some of these bulbs from Jameco, probably based on some post here.
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&productId=209488

What I noticed was that one of my S+ machine's BV bezel was brighter than the other machine. I swapped bulbs with some of the ones from Jameco with no change. Note: they may have already been Jameco ones since I bought 10 and only had 5 left. So next I swapped the bezel board and still no change. Then I did what I should have done first, and swapped bulbs with the other machine. And sure enough, now the bezel was brighter. So my question is did I get some wrong bulbs from Jameco (even though the description says 6.3V), or did the other machine have the wrong bulbs? If the other on had the wrong ones, what could they be? They don't appear to be overly bright, but make the bezel actually look yellow when lit and not more of a dingy orange like the Jameco ones.

[stayouttadabunker]

The bulbs may be both 6.3v but the amps they draw is different.
I noticed that with some button light I had on a machine.
Even though both bulbs has an imprintation on them of "6.3v" -
they were not the same brightness.

I get all of my bulbs from these guys over the years.
They are very very helpful over the phone but their website on bulbs is better!
Watch the little difference in the amps they draw...
Type in for example "6.3" and then open the "Details" on each bulb that comes
up in the search and you will see the subtle differences.
If you know the wattage you need, the right side search dialog boxes are better to use.>>>

http://www.bulbdirect.com/

[poppo]

The bulbs may be both 6.3v but the amps they draw is different.
I noticed that with some button light I had on a machine.
Even though both bulbs has an imprintation on them of "6.3v" -
they were not the same brightness.

The specs on the Jameco site say they are .2amp. This is the same rating I see for other #86 bulbs. Since the bulbs were sent in a small bag (and not a factory box), I wonder if the specs were just generic for the #86 bulb, but not for the actual bulbs they had. I guess I'll just have to buy some more someplace else and see how those work. At this point I don't really know if the dimmer ones are actually the 'right' ones or the brighter ones are. All I do know it the brighter ones look a lot better, at least in the BV bezel.

[stayouttadabunker]

Pasted below is an example is what I mean.
Both bulbs are "Sub Mini-Wedge" bulbs , same price and fit the same
socket but one is a little brighter than the other.

It has something to do with the amperage they draw.
My guess is that the one with the higher rated amperage
will be brighter with a given voltage?
Or will it be the other way around? 
See the difference in wattages?
Click on screenshot below to enlarge...>>>

[stayouttadabunker]

To show you guys further differences between 6.3 volt bulbs.
These are two totally different "wedge" bulbs which are both 6.3 volts and
will fit the same sockets but one will be way too bright!
In fact, I tried these before and I think the #159 wedge bulb blew after a few minutes
but it was so long ago I've since forgotten...duh!
Waay too hot!
Below the screenshot, I've attached to this post - is a Lamps.pdf list I try to stick with!
Click on screenshot below to enlarge...>>>

[poppo]

Right. I understand that there are different specs and generally the higher the amp/watt rating the brighter the bulb. What I don't know is if the ones I got from Jameco actually have the specs they list on the site. If they had come in a box with a mfg & part number label I would know for sure, but they just came bagged with the Jameco part number. So as it stands now, those may be the correct bulbs and the brighter ones have some other rating, or they sent some that don't actually match the rating that they have listed. All I can do is order some from another place and see how those work.

[stayouttadabunker]

Poppo,
I'm just a nerd...lol... but if you took a known "good" bulb and checked the resistance
with a multimeter against a "questionable" bulb -
would there be a difference in readings?  

[poppo]

Poppo,
I'm just a nerd...lol... but if you took a known "good" bulb and checked the resistance
with a multimeter against a "questionable" bulb -
would there be a difference in readings? 

Dimmer bulb 4.4ohms
Brighter bulb 3.2ohms

I still don't know which one is the 'right' one. I want to say the brighter one because in a well lit casino the dimmer one would probably be hard to see.

[knagl]

Dumb question, but do the "bad" bulbs have any markings on the bulb themselves indicating a number?

[stayouttadabunker]

Dumb question, but do the "bad" bulbs have any markings
on the bulb themselves indicating a number?

You're right knagl...but that would be too easy! 

Anyways,
I'd go with the brighter bulb for awhile and see if it gets too hot or burns out.
Keep an eye on it.

[poppo]

No marking on the bulbs.

I've had the brighter ones in my one machine since I got it and no problems. It was only after I got it that I noticed the other machine's BV was not as bright. And I had replaced all of the bulbs on that one with the Jameco ones a few years ago.

[sblair]

Poppo,
I'm just a nerd...lol... but if you took a known "good" bulb and checked the resistance
with a multimeter against a "questionable" bulb -
would there be a difference in readings? 

Dimmer bulb 4.4ohms
Brighter bulb 3.2ohms

I still don't know which one is the 'right' one. I want to say the brighter one because in a well lit casino the dimmer one would probably be hard to see.

Measuring the resistance on an incandescent lamp can be deceiving.  The resistance changes dramatically as a function of temperature.  This is why most lamps blow when you first turn them on.  The cold resistance is much lower and you have an inrush of current along with the thermal shock.

To properly determine the specs on the lamp you would need to measure the amount of current that is being pulled when the lamp is on.  Multiply the Voltage * Current and that will give you the actual wattage.

Scott

[poppo]

Measuring the resistance on an incandescent lamp can be deceiving. 

Agreed, but I measured several of each group and they all measured nearly the same <>.1 ohm

But just for grins I put them on my variable power supply that measures current. I used 6.3V (DC) since that is what they are rated for. Even though the slot uses 7V AC, there is RMS to calculate, blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, here are the results:
Brighter bulb. .2 amps
Dimmer bulb .2 amps.

And yes the one group was still noticeably brighter than the other during the test.  There is a difference in the filament layout, so it may just be do to  different manufacturers. You really can't tell the difference on the reel glass lamps. It's just more noticeable on the BV bezel.

Oh well, I'll just order some more and see what I get.

[sblair]

Right, the cold resistance is much lower.

Taking the Voltage/Current would give you an actual resistance of 6.3v/0.2a = 31.5 ohms.

If you did the current calculation based on the cold resistance you measured it would be 6.3v/0.1ohms = 63A.  That would be considered the inrush current when you first turn it on.

Scott

[poppo]

If you did the current calculation based on the cold resistance you measured it would be 6.3v/0.1ohms = 63A.  

Actually it would be 6.3v/4.4 (or 3.2) = 1.4A or 1.9A The .1 ohm  was the difference between bulbs within the groups. A 63A 'inrush current' would pop that bulb in an instant.  

I taught electronics in the military for about 10 years 'back in the day' when Ohm's law was still required knowledge. And at the beginning we were still using a slide rule.

[sblair]

I kept looking at that # thinking the inrush was high, but it really only experiences that for a fraction of a second.  I misunderstood the resistance value you posted for what you measured, rather than the delta between them

[knagl]

I understood "bright" and "dim", but this thread has since gone over my head. 

[poppo]

Just an update. I got some new bulbs. These are the boxed EiKO brand. They work fine (i.e. are bright). So the ones Jameco is selling (or was a few years ago) are 

[stayouttadabunker]

I like the Eiko brand as well...good choice poppo! 

[poppo]

I like the Eiko brand as well...good choice poppo! 

I wanted to be sure I knew which brand I was getting so I would have a point of reference. These actually have a marking on the bulb, so I will be able to distiguish them. I'll probably just go ahead and swap them all out since I don't know what is what any more with the ones in the machines.