Igt vs. the other brands

[reho33]

I know that we all have our personal brand loyalty of slot machine but has anybody noticed that IGT seems to rule the roost. You don't see many Bally, Williams, Konami, Universal, etc for sale on the Flea-bey..... I have 1 Bally because I liked the machine when it was in Foxwoods in 1997-8 but I tend to be an IGT person. At one time Bally ruled the roost. Anybody know why that is. Also, on an unrelated note, it seems that S+ machines are drying up in the market and the S2000 is the machine available right now in quanity, wonder why that is too?

[Foster]

Well maybe the S2000 are coming from closed casino's or casino's upgrading to newer S2000, AVP. just like they did from S+ to S2000.

[uniman]

Watching the change in slots over the last 10 years has been amazing. It used to be you could go to your favorite casino and find your favorite 3-reeler in it's usual place. Now the 3-reelers are almost extint. Casinos are changing the slots faster and faster. What was there last week is history and the newest is now on display.
Remember the WMS games like Money To Burn on the 550 platform? Long gone now. And how about the giant multi-player Wheel of Fortune? Don't see that anymore either.
How about Elvira? I could keep going but you get the picture.

To answer reho33's question it looks like the S2000's are being replaced with video slots, including the AVP. I think what we see now on eBay is who ruled the roost five to ten years ago.
Casino's were full of S2000's back then.

[reho33]

Well, it's like this: if I ask in the classifieds for an IGT S2000, everyone will fall over themselves to sell me one. But if I ask for a Williams Jackpot stampede or Big Bang Piggy Bankin' I may get fewer offers or none at all. I did a search on "The Bay" and found a s--t load of IGT S2000 items but very few WMS stuff. I like the Williams dotmatrix machines but finding one is really hard. I know Pinrepair had videos of some and seemed to have alot of Williams stuff for sale but that is all I saw.

[StatFreak]

I think that some of the reasons you have more trouble finding Wms Dotmations is that:

1. The made fewer of them than the S+ or the S2000
2. They have been out of production longer than the S2000
3. They are in demand -- at least the better titles are.
4. The reason they are in demand is that they are fun to play, so fewer owners are willing to part with them, even after owning them for a while.

One and two would be reasons why vendors would have fewer of them for sale, and three and four would reasons why fewer private owners would put theirs up for sale.

Just my 2¢, and by the way, my DOT and my DOT kits aren't for sale.

Stat

[StatFreak]

More people may seem to "like" IGT, but to some extent it's because they are ubiquitous. I think that Wms has been much more innovative in their game design, bonus features, and last but certainly not least, their music. IGT tends to, uh, "borrow" the ideas of other companies.

Don't get me wrong, there are IGT titles that I really like and want to own, but if I had to grade the two companies, Wms would win hands down. -- -- -- Well, to tell you the truth, IGT would win, because they would file a lawsuit against me over my decision and get a court order to have it changed. THAT is something they are VERY good at.

[Foster]

More people may seem to "like" IGT, but to some extent it's because they are ubiquitous. I think that Wms has been much more innovative in their game design, bonus features, and last but certainly not least, their music. IGT tends to, uh, "borrow" the ideas of other companies.

Don't get me wrong, there are IGT titles that I really like and want to own, but if I had to grade the two companies, Wms would win hands down. -- -- -- Well, to tell you the truth, IGT would win, because they would file a lawsuit against me over my decision and get a court order to have it changed. THAT is something they are VERY good at.

Yes they would, I was going to say something to the effect they act like M$ at times.

[Op-Bell]

There are so many more IGTs partly because there were more of them to begin with, but also because IGT is very aggressive about "encouraging" casinos to upgrade. They do this by refusing to support the older lines, so spare parts and (more usually) software upgrades can't be had. The massive flood of S+ machines was driven by the move to TITO. There was no technical reason the S+ couldn't support TITO, but IGT wouldn't do it, to drive new machine sales. They'll be pushing some new must-have network feature now that isn't available on the S2000.

There are fewer Williams machines because IGT nearly sued WMS into bankruptcy in the 1990s over the Telnaes patent, and WMS had to stop production of their innovative reel machines altogether until the patent ran out. That was when they started making dotmation machines in a big way, because the reels had to be "true odds" and they had to rely on the dotmation secondaries to provide the long odds for bigger prizes. They also switched to video for new designs, since these weren't covered by an IGT patent. Universal were almost driven out of business by political manipulation of the gaming control regulations in favor of you-know-who. They came back but never recovered. Konami made some catastrophically bad machines and became more or less irrelevant, but they have a big business in the far east and didn't care. Bally collapsed through incompetent management, very bad engineering decisions and the inability to get any of their new platforms working. A round of firings and the purchase of the company that had the Alpha platform put them back in the game. Aristocrat were locked out of Nevada - again by political moves on the gaming control board - until about 10 years ago. So none of these companies put many machines into the used market in the last decade. But in ten years time the picture will be entirely different.

Casinos prefer the videos because they're lower maintenance, and also because these "penny" machines can cost $5 a play so they make more money by turning nickel players into dollar players. However, the new Konami Advantage 5 reel slots are kicking ass and may change this policy.

[reho33]

Op-Bell, thanks for the excellent, historly accurate, story-behind-the-story. You seem to be the go to guy for a lot of Nevada gaming knowledge, etc. I know that you don't post that often but when you do, it's worth it's weight in gold. K+ You are really right is saying that IGT dominates in a lot of gaming venues. At one time, they also sold retired machines to home users but stopped a long time ago. At least that is what was once said on their website.

[stayouttadabunker]

Here's a pic of the Konami 5-reeler Advantage Op was talking about...>>>

[cowboygames]

I'd be the first to admit that the other manufacturers have some great titles, but to IGTs credit, their machines are rather simple to work on, relatively cheap to buy and generally easy to get parts for. This hobby would be a whole lot tougher for some of us to enjoy if the market had been a level playing field. It's to bad what happened to Konami, they've got some good titles and their machines are like the Toyotas of the slot industry for quality. But to that end, look how hard it is to get a programming key for the damn things Bally has some good titles also, but in my opinion, they're kind of a pain in the ass to work on and the guts aren't as solid as some of the others. Goods and bads for all manufacturers I suppose

[StatFreak]

... relatively cheap to buy and generally easy to get parts for.
...

That's only because they represent such a lion's share of the machines that were in casinos 5-10 years ago, and because of IGT's aggressive upgrade pressure that Op-Bell described in his post.

... This hobby would be a whole lot tougher for some of us to enjoy if the market had been a level playing field.
...

I'm not so sure. We'd have more access to the used machines and parts of other brands than we now do and a larger variation of machines to choose from. People who wanted to focus on learning the ins and outs of one particular platform would still have that option.

[Bettor Slots]

Times are a changing though.  Like you said, videos are taking over...and WMS is the desired platform and they have made their pricing very appealing to casinos.  About 3 months ago I traveled up to Caesar's Windsor for some "research".  It's a decent sized casino and I would guess around 3,000 machines total.  I was shocked at what I saw.  I counted ZERO 17" I-Game Video slots.  I counted maybe 20 19" I-Game 3902 and 044 based machines.  Maybe 100 of the newer 044 AVP's.  I would guess 40% or more of the floor was all WMS Bluebirds of various versions, video BB1's, BB2's, BB 5 Reelers, and BB 3 reelers.  The numbers were outstanding.  I would guess only 10 to 15% of the floor was the Konami's, Aristocrats, and Altronics.  I would give 20% of the floor to Bally and I can only give about 30% of the floor to IGT.  These proportions were unheard of 5 to 10 years ago.

In a way this is good news for people wanting a Bluebird if this is the trend across the nation....with quantity comes price drop in the coming years.

[Bettor Slots]

By the way Reed....available...  

[Bettor Slots]

Has anyone had a chance yet to play new Konami Advantage Revolution platform?  I think they are pretty fun myself.  The center reels actually spin or pivot left or right to additional bonus round games.  You can see it about half way through the video below:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/SuK7gQkvUm0&rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/SuK7gQkvUm0&rel=0</a>

[stayouttadabunker]

They have those at a casino near me. 
They're pretty neat...
I'd love to get inside of one and see what makes them tick! 

[reho33]

I think that it's great that there is a mix on the floor, that's the way it should be. In some jurisdictions the gaming control board mandates a mix and the percentages of vendors; this is to protect everyone and to insure that no vendor is favored over the other. (Why can't they do this in Vegas?) Oh yea, politics and corruption..............guess I answered my own retorical question.....

[uniman]

I have played the Konami Advantage Revolution at Palace Station in Vegas. A lot of fun and very different! Seems like they had three or four different themes.
Also, the new Bally's "Las Vegas" slot with two bonus wheels and the "Welcome to Las Vegas" topper is something too! That would look nice in my slot room, if it would fit. 


http://ballytech.com/games/premium-games/video-slots/vegas-hits-2076.html