S2000 Hopper optics question

[Buzz]

Bunker   My camera will not see a optic. 

[poppo]

I'm pretty sure optics do mind which side is the "hot" line.

The emitter is a LED (diade) so hooking it up backwards should not hurt anything.

Here is how I would wire it

Optic VCC -> 5v
Counter +  -> 5v (red)
Optic ground -> ground
Counter ground -> ground (black)
Optic cathode -> ground
Optic collector -> counter input (yellow or blue)

[stayouttadabunker]

Bunker   My camera will not see a optic.  

I've posted several photos of emitter optics lit up with my camera.
Human eyesight AND cameras will NOT "see" a receiver optic.
Maybe there's something wrong with your camera?
Stat may be able help you the camera settings.
It may need to be adjusted?

The emitter is a LED (diade) so hooking it up backwards should not hurt anything.

But why Poppo, is there a resistor placed on the "hot" side
of the optics inside of hopper optics enclosure?
Surely, if you apply the "Hot" from the opposite side of the resistor,
 ( for example: crossing the wires ) it will blow?
Or no?

[Buzz]

Hell I bought it from Stat.

[stayouttadabunker]

Bunker   My camera will not see a optic. 

Here's a picture Buzz, from this very thread I posted earlier on Page 2...>>>


http://newlifegames.net/nlg/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15092.0;attach=39487;image

[poppo]

[But why Poppo, is there a resistor placed on the "hot" side
of the optics inside of hopper optics enclosure?

Current limiting resistor for the emitter. Without it the emitter goes   

It would not matter which side of the emitter it was on.

[BCD]

Aaarrgghh...my head hurts!

Poppo, here's where I got before the dinner bell rang.  Counter counts just fine by grounding one of the input lines.  I'm now going to wire the optics and counter to the 5V power supply, ground the cathodes, and connect the two counter inputs to the two optics collector lines.

Three questions; does the optics unit have to be attached to the hopper to function?  I didn't think it did but I'm now not sure.  Does it matter what type of item passes between the optics emitter and the sensor?  Can the optics be tested with a meter to determine if it's working?

[poppo]

Three questions; does the optics unit have to be attached to the hopper to function?  I didn't think it did but I'm now not sure.  Does it matter what type of item passes between the optics emitter and the sensor?  Can the optics be tested with a meter to determine if it's working?

No
No, as long as it's solid (does not let light through).
Maybe. VCC to ground (ohms setting with nothing connected to the wires) should read higher one directon than the other.

[BCD]

After grounding the counter, optics, optics cathode 1, and optics cathode 2 the counter still doesn't count when I move a solid object between the optics emitter and sensor.  I tried the above with a 200ohm resistor on the hot side of the optics and again without the resistor.

I wired a micro switch to the counter and the counter did its thing just fine.

Me thinks my optics is shot.

[BCD]

Maybe. VCC to ground (ohms setting with nothing connected to the wires) should read higher one directon than the other.

Do you mean the VCC wire from the optics is connected to the negative probe of the meter?  If so, does the optics ground have to be connected to something?

[poppo]

Do you mean the VCC wire from the optics is connected to the negative probe of the meter?  If so, does the optics ground have to be connected to something?

Negative probe to ground wire, positive probe to VCC (of the optics with nothing else connected). Then swap the probes. One reading should be very high and the other a lot lower.

If all else fails, you might try the same wiring, but with 12v. I don't know what voltage VCC is supposed to be for that set of optics, but it might be higher than 5v. But only try that if you think they are shot.

It looks like VCC is 5V

One last thing you can try, is connect a 10K resistor between the collector output and 5v . It might need a pull-up resistor. Any value over 5K will suffice. Just a shot in the dark.

[BCD]

The meter reading with the negative to ground/positive to VCC was 4x that with the probes reversed !  Does that tell you the optics are OK?

[poppo]

At least the emitter seems to be ok.

BTW, did you try running a q-tip in there to make sure they are not blocked?

Also, I hope you are not doing this testing under a bright light. That might cause it not to work.

[BCD]

RATS!!!!![/size]

No poppo, I'm not trying under a bright light; I'm trying it under the brightest light I can find !!  Where does the idiot line form?!?  Thanks for mentioning the obvious.

Time to break out the soldering gun...AGAIN.

Do you mean take the optics case apart and run a q-tip in front of the emitter and sensor?

[poppo]

Do you mean take the optics case apart and run a q-tip in front of the emitter and sensor?

No, just from the outside, in beween the slot.

[BCD]

No luck...even in the dark.

Grounded the counter, optics, and both cathodes to the power supply ground; wired the hot lines of the counter and optics to the power supply; turned off all but a dim light; passed a solid piece of plastic between the lobes of the optics and NOTHING even when I block the dim light from reaching the optics.  I grounded each of the counter output lines, one at a time, to make sure the counter was working and it was.

I think I've had it for the evening.  Time to take a break and catch some zzz's .  Tomorrow I might try not grounding a cathode, hooking up only one counter output, grounding one counter output, who knows...

Thanks for all of your time tonight.

Y'all have a good weekend.
Bart 

[stayouttadabunker]

You've passed the emitter test...try your probie test for hi/lo on the receiver optic too?

[BCD]

Morning Bunker, welcome back to the fray ! 

You asked the question I was wondering about when I signed off last evening.  I have not tried the optic receiver because I'm not sure of what to connect to who.  Do I connect the negative probe to the ground and the positive probe to one of optics output lines?

I also was wondering if the optics lobes that the coin passes between are partially clear, for lack of a better term, and allow IR light to pass from the emitter to the receiver.

[poppo]

I have not tried the optic receiver because I'm not sure of what to connect to who.  Do I connect the negative probe to the ground and the positive probe to one of optics output lines?

First try between ground and the collector. If you get nothing, try between the collector and cathode. After thinking about you saying that the emitter worked (ground to vcc), I'm now not sure just how that thing is wired inside. If it were me, I would probably have it opened up by now to look for myself.  

[BCD]

LOL !!

poppo, if it were you with this thing it would have been up and running without Lord knows how many posts on this forum by Lord knows how many people.  I'll be more than happy to open 'er up and take a look.  The fun begins with, "Now, what am I looking at?? " 

I was pondering the little ritual of grounding one of the counter inputs to make sure it works and the suggestion of using the spring loaded arm on the optics assembly to trip a miniature switch.  Seems to me that Goldberging a counter input to the arm so that when a coin passes under the arm, and the arm is lifted, the input line contacts the ground and the counter does its thing.  This isn't as high tech or elegant as getting the optics to behave, but, because I seem to have misplaced my 12 lb. sledge, a.k.a. "The Fine Tuner," it might be the second best way to go.

[poppo]

The only thing you need to be careful with when using a mechanical switch, is what I mentioned earlier in the thread. It's call 'contact bounce'. Switches contacts have a tendency to bounce several times. If the counter is too 'fast' it will count these as seperate inputs. The only way to know for sure is to try it and see if it is counting properly. If it's not, it will count more than actually passed through. See this small article.

http://www.elexp.com/t_bounc.htm

[BCD]

Trust me poppo, I've been reminded of your comment when fooling around with the switches purchased at Radio Shack.  The concern I have in Goldberging a switch setup is the counter input could be in cotact with the ground for too long a period.

[poppo]

The concern I have in Goldberging a switch setup is the counter input could be in cotact with the ground for too long a period.

That's not a problem with these counters. If you notice, they don't actually register a count until the contacts open back up (remove the ground). So that tells me they probably have programed them similar to how I did in my program to prevent it from continuting to count if the switch remains closed.

[BCD]

Good one poppo!  Thanks for the info; one less worry about using a switch.

I'm going to see if I can get into the optics enclosure for a look.

Thanks again for the counter info.

[BCD]

I'm now not sure just how that thing is wired inside. If it were me, I would probably have it opened up by now to look for myself. 

Here's the inside of the optics enclosure.  I did not take the board out because it is held in place by two black plastic posts/tabs that don't want to be scraped off.