S+ SX main pgm memory 16MHz error code question

[badbaud]

Trying to get machines working that have the 16MHz Xtal and SX type main program chip.

Figured out how to clear the 63 code by jumpering two pins on J2 on the backplane board.

Machine now spins it's reels like it is ready  to play but get a constant 3   2 or   3   3 on the credit meter.

Slow top light flash, fast bottom light flash on candle.

No error codes listed on the printout on the inside door mention a 3---x code and what they mean.

Does anyone know what these error codes mean and how to clear them?

[poppo]

Ok, I'm officially stumped. What is a S+ SX 'program chip'?   Are we just talking about a standard 16mhz MPU? If so what is the game chip number?

[badbaud]

16MHz, standard SP chips don't communicate with the newer Yamaha sound chip that replaced the older AY3 sound chip.

The main game chip on these boards have a SX prefix and not SP, for example SX1729. There are all kinds of security measures like a switch inside the board cage that opens if the board is removed. The reel chip still has SS numbers. I assume special code was written for some paranoid casino back east with the addition of a 3---x error code that is not covered in any S+ manual.

If you know anyone that worked in a casino back east please contact them and see if they know what this error code means.

[Foster]

I am thinking those codes are a different way of showing a 3200 (con out jam) and Hopper empty (3300)

[poppo]

16MHz, standard SP chips don't communicate with the newer Yamaha sound chip that replaced the older AY3 sound chip.

The main game chip on these boards have a SX prefix and not SP, for example SX1729.

This is the first time I've actually heard of a SX prefix game chip. I saw in one of the other threads that threre was an obball looking 16mhz MPU (I assume with the different smaller sound chip). There must not be too many of these out there as I don't recall ever seeing anyone post about them before.

[Foster]

My 16Mhz board has a small Yamaha chip on it but uses a SP1309, I also had a SP chip for 2,21 type games for it as well.
The 2,21 16Mhz SP chip would jumble some of the sounds during haywire respins.

[stayouttadabunker]

About 45 years ago, I had asked if anyone could read one of those AY sound generator chips and
see if we can "enhance" the sounds for the S+.

I was told it couldn't be done but nobody knew me at the time so secrets were withheld from me....

BTW People are telling me more but  I STILL don't know how to change the sounds on an S+.   


Does the reel "Spin" sounds actually come from that AY chip or are they coming from the SP chip?
I ask this because from the way I ( was schooled by NLG members) understand the evolution of the S+ -
the newer SP chips "cut back" on the sounds to make more room for accounting records...

[poppo]

Does the reel "Spin" sounds actually come from that AY chip or are they coming from the SP chip?
I ask this because from the way I ( was schooled by NLG members) understand the evolution of the S+ -
the newer SP chips "cut back" on the sounds to make more room for accounting records...

The AY chip acually generates the sounds. The SP has the code to tell it how to make the sounds.

On a related note, my pinball uses a AY 3-8910 for sound. Besides for the game ROM, there is a separate sound ROM. So the game ROM tells the sound ROM what sound to play, and the sound ROM then uses the AY chip to create the actual sound.

[stayouttadabunker]

Good., good answer Poppo!  

To me that means:

1). The AY chip has the "tones".


               and

2). The SP chip triggers the sequence of the tones.


Please allow my to apologize to badbaud as I've gotten a bit off-track here.
Maybe a moderator can split the thread into a billion pieces...

Figured out how to clear the 63 code by jumpering two pins on J2 on the backplane board.

This bothers me badbaud...why don't you use a Clear chip instead?
It will clear both the motherboard 8-pin eprom and the MPU's CMOS at the same time -
the way it is usually done with "stuck/looping" error codes?

No error codes listed on the printout on the inside door mention a 3---x code and what they mean.

I agree with Foster on that it may just be a hopper error in a different form of display.
I think the military SP chips displayed those errors that way.
I've NEVER heard of an "SX1729" - if that's what you have installed.
Is that the way they're labelled?
May I see a photograph of it? 

[badbaud]

I intentionally tilted the hopper and the standard 3xxx codes were displayed so the 3---x codes have nothing to do with that, they display when the door is closed.

The SX chips have a IGT label on them. (c) IGT and so on.

I designed sound boards using the AY3-8912 sound chips years ago for interface to electromechanical and E series slots, and later for kiddie rides.
The chip has no pre-set "sounds" in it.  It has a bunch of registers that you load different values in for decay and volume and frequency and you build your sounds like that using a MPU and software.

Trying to use a standard SP chip in the board instead of the SX chip gives you immediate reel tilt codes. Spin causes all  of the reels to try to spin at once and random 41, 42, 43 errors occur.

Changing the 16MHz crystal to a 10 MHz crystal and using the SX software slows down the reels and all other functions to half speed. No use as a real game.

The clear chip works and does it's thing properly in the SX boards.

The Yamaha chip uses different software to enable it's sounds so a SP chip does not give you any sounds.

The SX machine also had a small board mounted inside the board cage on the back wall and it also has a 3.6V battery and some other parts on it. If that battery is dead you get constant 63 codes.

Removing that board and jumpering two wires on P2 on the backplane prevents 63 tilts.

Modifying the board by changing the crystal and adding a few parts, including a AY3-8912 allows the board to operate properly with standard SP chips (see my post to Foxslots).

We are going to get 50 of these machines in and trying to determine what option to use. Figure out how to fix the constant 3---x error code or modify 50 boards by adding volume controls and AY3-8912 and other parts to make them SP compatible boards.

I am Begining to believe that the 3---x codes are related to SDS down or something and maybe can't be fixed. Which means we need to find 50 of those obsolete AY3-8912 sound chips, that's going to be a pain in the arse to accomplish.

Oh, ya, Foxslots, you need to add a DIP switch also or you can't enable any sounds.

[poppo]

Oh, ya, Foxslots, you need to add a DIP switch also or you can't enable any sounds.

Depending on the SP chip (i.e. at least SP1271 and up) the DIP switches are no longer used on 10mhz boards.

As for the issue at hand, IMO it might be better to just try and find a batch of 'standard' MPUs. As already noted, I don't recall anyone ever posting about SX game chips or about these different 16mhz MPUs.

[knagl]

Trying to use a standard SP chip in the board instead of the SX chip gives you immediate reel tilt codes. Spin causes all  of the reels to try to spin at once and random 41, 42, 43 errors occur.

What SP chip are you trying, and what speed EPROM is it burned on?  You would need to use a 16mhz SP chip, and it needs to be on a chip that is 120ms or faster (ie. the speed must be listed as a number that is 120 or less).  Using a 10mhz SP chip or an EPROM that is is slower than 120ms would likely cause reel errors. 


If you have been trying a designated 16mhz SP chip on an EPROM that is 120ms or better, then...

As for the issue at hand, IMO it might be better to just try and find a batch of 'standard' MPUs. As already noted, I don't recall anyone ever posting about SX game chips or about these different 16mhz MPUs.

 

[badbaud]

Been there did all of that. Our standard plus board tester is a standard S plus machine with no frills. The 16 MHz boards cause immediate reel tilts using their 16 MHz chips on the board. Changing the Xtal to 10 MHz and using 10 MHz chips allows the game to play fine.

The SX chips on the boards have NM on them so this system was designed specifically for some casino in New Mexico.

[poppo]

Ok, so are we saying there are two different versions of the 16 MHz MPU, and one version requires a 'special' version of the game chip?

[stayouttadabunker]

The SX chips on the boards have NM on them so this system was designed specifically for some casino in New Mexico.

This is confusing because I've never had a reel tilt with a 16MHz board provided
I had the correct PSR-indicated prom devices installed with SP & SS chips rated at least 120ns speeds.

A company that makes eproms called National Semiconductor founded in the late 50's has
their devices print-marked with the 1st two letters as "NM".

Really nothing to do with the state of New Mexico by any means unless you are talking about the security tape that the
New Mexico Gaming Commission may have placed over the chips when they were installed in their sockets on the MPU?  

The 16MHz boards I have are from New Jersey and still have their break-away security tape on them.
  

[badbaud]

I took a picture of the label with this new damn phone but still can't figure out how to get it off the damn phone. The white label printed by IGT with (c) IGT has, 4 spaces to the right of the IGT, the letters NM. These are normally SP chips, in the program location, on a 10 MHz board. All of these chips have SX on them instead.

There was no security tape on these chips. BTW to remove the security tape get it real wet with a can of air held upside down. Let it freeze real good and the tape peels right off and doesn't remove the paper label stuck to the chip under the security tape.

Tomorrow I will bring my camera to the shop and snap a picture.

[stayouttadabunker]

I wanted to show you this guy's chip...  
It looks like a 512k eprom made in 1999!
That's just before the S2000's came out right?
Could it be a Barcrest chip?

I have NEVER seen one of these before...you?  

[knagl]

Could it be a Barcrest chip?

My S+ Barcrest pinball uses a traditional SP chip (designated for 16mhz boards, but still a standard SP chip -- not SX).

[stayouttadabunker]

Could it be a Barcrest chip?

My S+ Barcrest pinball uses a traditional SP chip (designated for 16mhz boards, but still a standard SP chip -- not SX).

Well, that blows my theory outta da water...lol
What in the world were these ones for...what special kind of machines did they have down in New Mexico?
I even searched the "Rescinded Firmware" and "Approved Firmware" lists but the "SX" doesn't pop up.
I'll betcha they were military chips...?

[poppo]

I'm thinking that first there was the 10 MHz MPU. Then came the 16 MHz MPU, and then they were developing and maybe testing an 'SX' version, but instead rolled out the S2000.

I'll betcha they were military chips...?

The only problem is that he said a regular 16 Mhz SP chip won't work in the MPU. So that means the MPU must be slightly different too.  OTOH, we know some of the military machines had some extra security stuff on them, so maybe these MPUs/chips were part of a 'custom build' for some military installations.

[knagl]

I'm sure if you call up Area 51 they'll be happy to tell you anything you want.   

[stayouttadabunker]

The thing that gets me is the date.
It's a very late date for that platform : Aug 1999

[knagl]

The thing that gets me is the date.  It's a very late date for that platform : Aug 1999

Well, in that case, poppo's theory seems plausable:

I'm thinking that first there was the 10 MHz MPU. Then came the 16 MHz MPU, and then they were developing and maybe testing an 'SX' version, but instead rolled out the S2000.

I know I've seen references of a touchscreen on the PE+ schmatics, while to the best of my knowledge they never actually put touchscreens on any PE+ machines, but rather developed the Game King platform instead.

[poppo]

The thing that gets me is the date.
It's a very late date for that platform : Aug 1999

Well, it was right before the S2000

IGT introduced its new S2000® spinning-reel slot at the end of 1999.

http://www.igt.com/company-information/about-igt.aspx

So it could have just been the beginning of an S+ 'upgrade' that never took off, or was no longer needed. It's not unusual to have a very short production run of a new model before a 'next generation' debuts. (Not talking specifically about slots).

[badbaud]

50 of these 16MHz SX machines came out of a casino, a local retailer purchased them for $50 each.. They had been sitting around for a while, evident by the rust inside the machine. The boards look brand new because they were stored in a box. Can't get them to work standalone so there must be some comm link the SX chip is looking for.
We removed the battery operated security board inside the machine and jumpered two wires on J2 to get rid of the 63 codes. Removed the fiber-optic SDS board and disconnected the SDS plug from the backplane. Removed the bill validator and related hardware and connections. The machine will work standalone with SP chips but this SX chip gives a constant error code on the credit meter of 3---x. No mention of what this error code means. Does anyone have a expanded IGT error code list that may cover this?