Checking a mechanically stepped hopper

[Phil847bally]

So my 847 basically works now. With the lights working its a beautiful site. Thanks again for everyones help. Here's the issue now. small payouts, I hear all the business noises happening in the  top compartment but no coins. I get 3 bells with 1 coin and it empties the hopper instead of giving me 20..

I am looking in the book and it talks about 9 steps and where the contacts should be on the hopper. How do you step it to check positioning while the hopper is out of the machine? The vertical plunger with the spring on it does not step the counter. I believe you should be able to click it around 360 degrees and 100 steps with this actuator but it wont work the way I think it should. Also it looks like my zero adjust switch is closed while at zero position and I believe it should be open?

[OldReno]

Pull your hopper, set it on a bench, and you will see the plunger of your payout counter step up coil on the back of the payboard assy. If you lean the hopper back onto its bowl, you will have a good view of the payboard, and the wiper assembly.  Reach in and push the step up plunger down, and that will release the payboard pawls and allow you to mechanically step the board. 
You can remove the top screw and nut holding the payboard assy to the hopper, and it will drop down so you can inspect everything.
Pushing on the step up plunger will advance the wipers, and pressing on the reset coil plunger will reset them.  You will find both solenoids (coil with plunger) on the back of the payboard.  One is mounted vertically, the other horizontally.  Using the plungers to advance and to reset will mimic what the machine does.
Set up different kinds of pays and see if it pays correctly on any of them, or does it just runaway on bells?
Also, you can drop down the top unit, and watch what that's doing, too....

[Phil847bally]

You'll have to change your name to "Reno to the Rescue" as once again great advice. Once I dropped down the wiperboard, I saw that the part that is supposed to engage the gear, wasnt doing its job so a little degreaser on a Q-tip and fresh drop of 3 in 1 oil and all is well. It stepped correctly and it now pays correct even with multiple coins inserted. What a weekend!! Friday night my machine and lights were not working and by Sunday afternoon its fully functional, and typical Vegas style means I am putting in more than I am getting out!! Now its time to build a stand to display it proudly. <-----(RENO)

[OldReno]

Good job!
Now keep your oil out for parts that you find are sticky.
Send photos of top unit down when you get a chance.
Enjoy!!!

[Phil847bally]

inside the top of cabinet

[Phil847bally]

and one more

[OldReno]

Wow, very impressive.  Forgot how full they packed them.
Looks real clean.
thanks for the fine photos.

[Amachanic]

Wow that machine looks super clean. You might to put a drop or two of oil on the multiplayer or steppers in the top box. Who knows the last time they were lubed. Congrats on getting it up and running and sharing the pics

Gary

[Phil847bally]

Thanks Gary for you comments. So I should lube the steppers that are attached to the 2 vertical boards towards the front of the unit? I took Reno's advice and watched the operation while I played the machine. The step unit on the right side activated every time I put a coin in and when it pays off, things happen on the unit back center. I did not see the unit on the left operate though. I will check them all and make sure all is clean and lubed. If you can tell me what these things do, I would appreciate it.

Also is there a way to tell what casinos these machines are out of?

[Amachanic]

Barry Fox might be able to tell you where your machine if from by the numbers on the side plate. Try sending him an email through Foxsslots on the members list. I'm not 100% sure what everything does in the top box. I know the stepper, but the other stuffs best left to someone like OldReno.. I just know I picked up an 873 a few yrs back, and it would only take one coin due to the stepper was not advancing. A couple drops of oil on the stepper freed it up. Just trying to stop any future problems before they happen.

[OldReno]

Ok, here's the best I recall about Continental pays:
Most multiplier coin pays are done using the X-units, which are the little wheel assemblys you see in some top boxes.
There are generally 4 of them for the X2, X3, X4, and X5 pays.
If you're playing 3 coins, the Odds unit disc selects the X3 unit to make the pay out.
The X3 board is wired so that for every 3rd step of itself, one pulse is allowed down to the hopper to electrically step the hopper payboard.  Then the next two coins out only step the X3, but not the hopper payboard.
So a 3 coin cherry payout of 6 coins goes like this.
1st coin steps X3 once (no step on hopper board)
2nd coin steps X3 once (no step on hopper board)
3rd coin steps X3 once, X3 board contacts provide circuit to hopper step up coil, and hopper steps one step.
This is repeated for the next 3 coins, and when the hopper payfingers finally step off the hot 2pay tab (cherry pay) then the pay stops.

The Continental however does not have X-units.  It has instead the Odds Follower, which is that motorized thingy in the back of the top unit.
The way the payout works is that (let's assume a 10 coin orange pay with 6 coins played -- 60 coins total) the hopper steps up 10 coins to complete the orange pay, and then the odds follower tells the hopper payboard to reset and pay again.
Each time the hopper resets, the top unit should then count down (or up?) once the number of times it has to reset the hopper.
You should be able to find an assembly up there that does that count down, and should see it step once per reset of the hopper.
After the 50th coin is payed out, the top unit is finished resetting the hopper, and the final 10 coins are paid out, and pay is over.
At least that's how I remember it, and it has been decades since I dicked around with a Continental.
I do recall spreading the schematic for one out on the casino floor, and it was probably 10 to 12 feet long.
Lots of circuitry in there, and admittedly I only grokked about 50% of it.
I do not recall how the Continental handles jackpot payoffs.  Most other machines use a jackpot lockup coil which forces the X2 unit to make a 100 coin (times 2) payout. But the Continental does not have X2 units.  You could always put up a jackpot, and then watch the top unit to see what it does.
Perhaps Op-Bell or one of the other old timers here can help expand our knowledge on this wonderful machine...?
It's one of my very favorites.
Your units in the top should be labelled.  Perhaps you could share with us what they are???
Thanks.

[Phil847bally]

Reno,
Still taking in all of your last post. I am not sure I understand it all but hope to. Attached is a couple of pics you requested. I labeled the pics with what the parts are labeled but that does not mean I know what they do!!

[Phil847bally]

couple of better pics of the odds motor

[OldReno]

Wonderful pictures, thank you for taking the time to do that. A very nice contribution to this site, I'm thinking.
The more information we can all put here, the easier it will be for folks to keep their machines running, and the more knowledge will be shared.
One reason I post is I like sharing what I know about EM's, and also learning from others who know things that I don't.
And I love the machines....
Great pics.

To condense my last post for you:
The multiplier machines use multiplier units (X units) for multi coin pays.  For a 5 coins in orange pay of 50 coins, the hopper spits out 50 coins, the X5 unit steps around 50 times, but the hopper only steps up 10 steps. For every 5 coins out the hopper payboard steps one time. You don't have X units in your Continental.
In the Continental however, the hopper steps once for every coin paid out.  A 5 coin in orange pay will pay and step up 10 coins, and then the hopper board resets back to zero, and begins its second payout of 10 coins, and does this a third, fourth and fifth time.
They are basically the same pay, but just different ways of doing it.
I hope that's a better explanation of how it works. Sometimes I get a little wordy.
Again, thanks for the photos!

[Phil847bally]

Thanks for the comments and yes the more info the better. In another post I will photograph the reel unit and hopper just for folks to reference. I hope posts like that will help

[Op-Bell]

I learned something from that, thanks Reno. I've never been inside a Continental. I know some models have a replay counter, and on those games the odds unit cam switch generates pulses to step up the counter, but I always wondered what function the cam switch performed on models without the counter.

[OldReno]

@Op-Bell, thanks for the kind words.  I however have learned far more from you than vice-versa, I'm sure.
I hope we all can continue to contribute to the overall knowledge base for the E/M's as they are my favorite machines, and diabolically clever for the technology available then.
My thanks to you for your wonderful and educational posts, and I hope to read much more from you on this subject.
(have you ever worked on a Money Pin?  A pinball machine with no paddles and a hopper...)
Yours,
Old Reno

[Op-Bell]

Not on a money pin, ie one with a hopper, no. But those were only bingo pins with automatic payout, and I know a thing or two about Bally Bingos.

[OldReno]

Well, they had tons of odds followers, and a couple of harnesses as thick as my forearms.  Of course the wires were old and discolored so that you couldn't tell what real colors they were. 
Never did figure out what the odds followers were for.  But there's lots of things about them I never figured out.
But they were pretty diabolical nonetheless.

Glad to see you're still posting and following EM threads.
I'm guessing slots were a natural progression of the pinballs they started with....
Love Bally.
Thanks for your valuable inputs.

[Op-Bell]

Thank you for saying so many nice things about me! I don't have a lot of time these days and I'm out of the gaming industry, but I docheck the EM threads from time to time. I'm glad to see you here covering most of it.

Bingo Pinballs - after you've spent a couple of months working through that lot, you'll know as much as me 

[Neonkiss]

E/M's as they are my favorite machines, and diabolically clever for the technology available then.
Old Reno

I'm sorry, I have missed this thread. Yes I cut my teeth on these old Bally's a they were my first introduction into slot machines, and I still to this date can't get over the things they were able to accomplish with just solenoids, motors and timing.
I love this older technology and we would not have the current slots today without it. Well that and the silicon revolution....

Looking at those pictures I'm amazed how clean that machine is. The wires and color of the wires is pristine. A sure keeper.

Thanks for the link to the Bingo machines, I look forward to doing some reading. I have a Bingo slot by Games of Nevada and I can see where the concept came from. Many of the same components.

[OldReno]

Op-Bell, thanks for the link.
The money pins I've been inside were a pinball with a hopper and no flippers.  Don't remember if they were all Bally or not, but they were pretty old.   the playfield was just a series of holes where the balls fell into, and at the bottom there was an outhole, if the ball did not fall into one of the other holes, you got to shoot it again.  On the backboard were a series of selectable screens which you could opt for, and the more money you put into the thing, the more kinds of screens you could 'buy'.  Don't remember how many holes they had, but it was up there....
You could put a ton of nickels into them, and of course you could win a ton of money, too.
The darned things were nearly as intimidating to play as they were to work on.  Some folks were pretty good at playing them, and could make some good money from time to time.
I took over a route for a week for a guy who was on vacation, and had some of these machines.
Sure was glad when he got back, I was a happy guy....
Whoever designed those things was a certifiable genius madman, and the EM complexity still amazes me.
And the guys who could work on them were just amazing techs.
Bally slots are pretty much easy compared to those monsters.