Bally 962 Winner Paid Light staying on, Can't find problem?

[Amachanic]

I've been working on a Bally 962, three coin, three line machine for a couple of days.. This machine must have been sitting for awhile since everything way frozen or gummed up.. I did the usual of cleaning and re oiling the reels assemble and hopper. Fixed and cleaned and adjusted all the relays and blade switches.. My problem now is that on winner paid light... It lights up when a jackpots won, but it doesn't turn back off the next time the machine is coined up and handles pulled??  I found the zero switch bumper stop was gummy and sticking, I replaced that but no difference.. The winner paid light does flash off when the handles pulled but comes right back on? It might turn off after 10-15 plays, but the next jackpot win the same thing happens?? I'm not sure what resets that circuit?

Thanks Gary

[Amachanic]

more pics

[Amachanic]

And 2 More

[OldReno]

Reach around behind the board (your pic #1673), and physically push closed the hopper reset solenoid plunger.
You can see several switches to the extreme left on your photo.  It's probably in that bunch.
If that solenoid does not pull in and latch, then your light will probably stay on.
It could be something else, but try that first.
Nice pics by the way....

[Amachanic]

Thanks for the quick response Reno. I've been throught the hopper too and everything seemed ok, but are you talking about the white 100 toothed gear? You think it might not be latching correctly? Both solenoid are working and the zero switch is opening and closing. I can get a pic of the inside of the hopper tomorrow.

Gary

[OldReno]

My pleasure.
I believe that the winner paid light is a stand-alone circuit.  The only switch controlling it should be the one controlled by your hopper reset solenoid. Just behind the board from your zero switch is where it lives.
You can tell if your hopper board is resetting correctly by pushing forward on your spiral cam (manually advancing it).
If it naturally falls back to zero when you release it, then your solenoid has latched.
If, however, it stays where you push it to, then it is not latched, and the hopper has not correctly reset.
If it is not latching, then check your 'B' switches that are located just above the variator which is just above your clock and fan on the left of your reels.  It is possible if the 'B' switches are not making well, that your hopper may not be latching, but that's unlikely and I kind of doubt it. The 'B' switch and zero switch are the only 2 switches involved in hopper reset.
Or it could be that the latch assembly is worn, or still sticky from old grease. 
Again, if the hopper is resetting correctly, no latch fingers should be touching the 100 tooth gear.  It should be free to move and return to zero position.
So, physically push the hopper board reset solenoid to see if it latches out the latch assembly.

[Amachanic]

Reno. The hopper is paying out the correct amount of coins on jackpots all the time, even if the winner paid light was still on. That there shows to me that the hopper working correctly. I've used a meter to check the zero switch contacts and they tested good too.. That's why this has me baffled? So does that take use to B switch now??

[OldReno]

Meter the switches behind the hopper board that are opened up when the hopper reset solenoid resets.  One of the wires should be the same color as one going to your winner paid light.
Is your spiral cam and wiper assembly free moving after the hopper resets, or do the wipers stay where you move them manually?
It sounds like your winner paid light switches are not opening fully all the time....
Is it working ok other than this????
Nice truck BTW, is that a 53?

[Amachanic]

Ok.. I just went back throught the hopper and really didn't find a problem.. The 100 tooth gear and spiral cam spin free and alway return.. I did tweek the few switches and metered them, they are all working as they should. I need to put it back in the machine and try it again.. The truck in the pic is a 1950 Chevy 3100.. My dad bought it in 1972 when we lived in Tucson. After his passing I learned to drive in it.. Over the next 16 years I slowly rebuilt and restored it.. As pictured it had a 350 V8 with a Turbo 400 trans.. I sold it about 1 year after this pic was taken. That was 1994..

Gary

[Jim]

Gary,

your problem is the switch in picture 1677.   it has the green/black wire on one post and a orange/red on the other post. the picture shows the switch closed. the small white pusher should open and close the switch.  put a piece of paper in between the contacts to simulate the switch being open, the lamp should be off, then pull the paper out, if the switch stays closed then the lamp should come on. If it does this then that is your problem. I don't have one here, so I can't tell you the mechanical action that opens and closes that switch.

Hope this helps

Jim

[Amachanic]

Gary,

your problem is the switch in picture 1677.   it has the green/black wire on one post and a orange/red on the other post. the picture shows the switch closed. the small white pusher should open and close the switch.  put a piece of paper in between the contacts to simulate the switch being open, the lamp should be off, then pull the paper out, if the switch stays closed then the lamp should come on. If it does this then that is your problem. I don't have one here, so I can't tell you the mechanical action that opens and closes that switch.

Hope this helps

Jim

Thanks for the advice Jim.. That switch seems to work correctly when I checked it on my bench.. That switch closes when the spiral cam advances, and when the solenoid fires and the cam returns to zero the switch opens back up.. I do notice that when you coin up and pull the handle that the win light flashes off for about a 1/10Th of a second then turns right back on.. When you hit a jack pot the win light goes off till the jack pot is paid, then it come right back on? The B
"B" switch is working too?? My book says sometime about the timing of these switches, could that be my problem?? What does the cherry switch in pic 1671? This this acts like it has a relay that's not shutting off or staying energized? There is a stack of 10 plastic relays behind the third reel, could my problem be one of them??

Gary

[Jim]

Gary,

after doing some reading I think your problem is the  reset arm . its the linkage that is attached to the reset coil. here is why---  lets say your machine just paid out ten coins on a hit of three oranges. the winner paid lamp should be on. you put a coin in , as you pull the handle  and the "B" switch should close and reset the counter unit on the hopper.(you should be able to hear this happen)  as a function of this action, the fingers are reset to zero, the zero switch is open, and because the reset coil started all this , the linkage attached to the coil plunger will latch the reset arm causing it to open the winner paid switch, this will cause the lamp to go out. the reset arm should stay latched holding the winner paid switch open  NOTE: the ground for the winner paid, insert coin and coin accept  comes from the switch on the hopper( de-energized payout relay switch)  when you get a winning combo on the reels  the following  action takes place: the payout relay switch is now energized, removing the ground from the lamp circuit, the counter starts to count up, the zero switch closes and the reset arm latch is released, the released reset arm latch will cause the winner paid switch to close, the counter reaches the proper amount of coins to pay out, the payout relay switch now is de-energized and the ground is put on the lamp to lite it up. on the next coin in, the handle is pulled the "B" switch resets the counter unit, the reset arm is latched opening the winner paid switch, the fingers are reset and the zero switch is open. one continuous cycle after another. you will see from this explanation why the winner paid lamp did what it did in you post, the lamp went out when the unit was paying out (because the ground was removed because the payout relay switch was opened due to the payout relay coil being energized),   then the winner paid lamp came on,( normal operation) the only thing wrong with your post, was the lamp should go out and stay out (not for a1/10 of a sec.) instead of coming back on (due to the latching of the reset arm holding the winner paid switch open)

Hope this helps           can't find any info on that switch. looks like the only time it would make is when the fingers are all the way back, which would be a JACKPOT (three sevens) so maybe something involving the payout or????
 
Jim                       

[Jim]

 
Gary,    did find reference to the switch you asked about.  its called the "snap" switch .  it was put in there for coins that may have been lodged in the chute, and when you pulled the handle the coin or coins would still register before the kickoff cycle was complete, thereby you got the credit for the proper amount of coins. Just in case you hit the big one.

Jim

[Op-Bell]

The cherry switch pulses repeatedly to reset the hopper safety timer. If the hopper is running and not stepping the 100 tooth wheel as coins go out, this shuts it off after a few seconds.

Check that the screws holding the switch stacks together are tight. Sometimes they work loose and the contacts don't work as they should, or they can short at the back where the wires are soldered on.