Says Bally 809 but reels confuse me + a problem.

[shortrackskater]

Ok...that was easy. Is that anti cheat a Bally thing or aftermarket/casino add on?
Just for the hell of it, I set up a one coin, three melon pay. It's correctly paying 20 coins BUT the fingers are all touching the "50" contact plate. I can add a picture of that when I get home if that helps.

[OldReno]

After a 20 coin pay, the fingers should be near (or on) the 50 segment.  That's ok, because the 50 segment never gets hot on a 20 coin pay.
Nice pics, thanks for sending them.  On your top photo (1448) look just below that set of switches that point to the left.  Just down from those switches, you see a little bend of metal that looks like an L.  Push that L down, and you will see that it resets the pay fingers.  This is a very quick way to reset the hopper board.  It is not however a full reset such as the machine does. It will not turn off the winner paid light, which is the switch on the left side of your second photo, (activated by that little white round disc next to your left-most spring) Nor will it reset your latch pawls to free up the 100 tooth gear.  The machine resets the board by pulsing the reset solenoid as shown at the top left of your picture (#1449).  But either way works for our purposes. You should check out both ways, just to understand the difference.
Now that you have the board pulled down you can physically check your steps.  Reset the board, and then push down on your step up plunger solenoid (2nd photo at right hand side) for 20 steps.  Lift up board and see where the fingers end up.  reset hopper and try it again.  Do this several times and note if the fingers always end up in the same place.
ON the 2nd photo, left hand side of the white 100 tooth gear, you will see 2 metal pieces that work on the teeth of that gear.  Look carefully as you push the step up solenoid plunger, and try to see if at any point the tab is picking up 2 teeth instead of one.
Not that this will tell us a lot, because the machine pulls down much harder on that plunger than you can push it down.
Put a mark with a sharpie at where the pay fingers end up after 20 steps.  Then, with the hopper back in set up melons and try that pay several times to see if the fingers always end up in the same spot.
Sometimes if there is slop in the step up solenoid mount, then it'll often double step, which of course leads to short pays.
Anyway, play around with it for awhile and see if you can find anything unusual going on....

[shortrackskater]

Did all that already except checking for the double tooth thing, which I'll do tonight! Thanks again so far.

[shortrackskater]

Got side tracked and finished late with some other things. Another question: is there an easier to set up the win combination easier? What I do is coin the machine, pull the handle and (if it doesn't hit), then power off the machine and set the reels to the proper place, then power on - and the hopper begins the pay out. Is there an easier way to do this?

[OldReno]

Sure is-
Pull the handle, stop the fan (left side of reels) and then put symbols on center line (reels will freewheel), release fan and reels will index.
OR, method #2-
pull handle down half-way. pull down on each reel firmly and you will see that it moves.  Set up pay on center line, hold reels in place, finish handle pull.
Or, method #3
Pull reel mech forward, push back on reel #1 index arm and move reel to correct position, release index arm, do same thing for reels #2, and #3.
Much easier, and will save you a lot of time.
I prefer just stopping the clock (holding fan) while reels freespin.

[shortrackskater]

I hope I'm remembering everything here. With the hopper out, I reset it and manually stepped it 20 steps. I put a dot (white out!) where the fingers stopped. I did this numerous times and it ended up in the same spot.
Then I reset the hopper, set up the one coin three melon pay and got the result as seen in the second picture: the fingers are slightly ahead of where they were before. I did that three times and all three ended up in the same spot and the payout was correctly at 20.

[OldReno]

Looks kind of suspicious to me.  Just posted a piece on ohming out your payboard (here in Electromechanicals).  Read it and it should show you how to check that 20 tab.  You may have to loosen the 2 bolts that hold your payboard onto its bracket, and that will allow you to twist the board one way or the other to align those payfingers.  The 2 bolts are UNDER the spiral cam, and you can reach them with an open ended wrench (forgot what size -- maybe 3/8?)
Thanks for photos!!! Looks to me like the fingers are hit and miss on the 20 tab (top photo) so that MAY be the problem.
Hey, you're getting pretty good at this!!!!
Just for kicks, manually step it up again (to photo #1), and with a melon pay on the reels, plug back in the hopper.  It may pay out one more coin which will tell us right away you need a little minor adjusting....

[shortrackskater]

Oops I forgot to mention I did loosen the payboard a few days ago and rotated it slightly left. I got a higher payout first but then got a lower one. I forgot what I set it to though. It ended up not seeming to make a difference but I rotated it back slightly to the left anyway.
I'm still not sure what I'm doing sometimes. I need to read up on the theory of operation on these. Are the fingers always hot, and do they make contact with the spiral to activate the hopper? I really need to read my big Bally book but I'm better at just diving in sometimes.
*** Should I be checking all these things on the INCORRECT payout combinations? The one coin, three melon seems to payout properly each time.
Hope this reply isn't too rambling!

[OldReno]

The payfingers only act as a bridge to bring power from the hot pay segment (whichever one) onto the feed.  All the payfingers are connected, but only the hot one gets the signal to the feed.  And, the pay segments only get hot when the reels tell them to.
the spiral just holds the payfingers in place, and has no circuitry.  It's just a mechanical device to move the outboard wipers back when high pays happen. It all happens ON the payboard.
Your're doing great.
Check all your pays so you can get a handle (pun) on which ones are consistently wrong.

[shortrackskater]

Thanks!  
And I did just read your post on ohming-out the board, which helps considerably. Of course, now that I'm anxious to work on the machine - I can't!!! Gotta go work until 6pm! Darn Sunday schedule.  

[Amachanic]

Do you have the Owners Pictorial Guide for the care and understanding of the Bally Slot Machine? It's a good book to have for working on the EM Ballys. Pages 119-123 covers Payout Counter Adjustments. This section covers the two adjustments of the lower stop bracket and the upper stop tab. These two adjustments control the starting points of your 100 tooth gear, its backlash and over travel so only one tooth is engaged at a time.. I had a payout problem with my 742 but after making these two adjustments and rotating the wiper board my problems went away. Let me know if your don't have this manual, I'll see if I can scan the pages.

Gary

[shortrackskater]

Do you have the Owners Pictorial Guide for the care and understanding of the Bally Slot Machine?

Gary

I do have that book Gary and thank you for the offer too. I keep reading bits of it and I will read that specific part tomorrow. I feel like I should just read it cover to cover. These EM's seem so much more difficult to work on compared to the S plus!
Thank you again!

[shortrackskater]

I re-examined the spiral cam spring, it had overlapped so I took it out, cleaned it (oily) and wound it back on two turns (the book said that). I checked all the low payouts for one coin "wins" and it's paying out exactly half. 

My question now is...do I have to put the fingers at a start point before I wind the spring? I guess I can look at my other old working (mostly) Bally 1114 and see where that hopper is, at the rest position.
Ill check back later tonight.

[OldReno]

Should have warned you about winding that spring politely, and not winding it over on itself.
Yes, you should reset your hopper to zero before you wind the spring.  AND manually step it once to lock it in place.  Once you got it to 2 or 2 and 1/2 winds, don't worry about it.
My question to you, as certainly you have digested all the threads above, is,...where are you payfingers ending up after these short pays?
If they end up off their correct pay tabs, then you're getting double-steps in there somewhere.
And thanks, you reminded me to post another thread about torsion springs....
Rule #1 on checking mis-pays -- look at where the payfingers end up.
Rule #2, we don't talk about fight club.
LOL.

[shortrackskater]

Okay...stupid question but... where is the 0 setting??? There's nothing in the book I can see as to the start position of the fingers. There's an F, there's a CO. I tried it on the CO and got the same thing...
Frustrating.
I tried checking on my other Bally but the hopper and payboard are separate!

[drfreeze1739]

here is a pic of my 0 switch on my bally hopper..

So you can look at it and see where yours is at..

[shortrackskater]

Thank You! I ended up putting all my tools away, shutting off my stereo and coming inside but I'll adjust it first thing in the morning. Mine was just short of that spot, on the CO tabs.

[drfreeze1739]

this pic was taken when it was to far open....

I made all most all the way cloed.. where you can just see light between the gap...

[drfreeze1739]

lossen the nut on top and turn the stoper down then tighten up the nut...

[shortrackskater]

this pic was taken when it was to far open....
I made all most all the way cloed.. where you can just see light between the gap...
lossen the nut on top and turn the stoper down then tighten up the nut...

I appreciate your post          but I'm not sure if I understand any of what you said, other than the picture is not showing the correct position?

[OldReno]

@skater, 0 setting just means reset the hopper payboard back to zero coins paid out.
(Its normal at rest position, which is 6 o'clock.)

[drfreeze1739]

The pic i posted is before i adjusted the 0 switch. because the gap was to big..

When the gap is to big it wont let the machine pay out.

So if you adjust the 0 switch to where you can barely see light through it.

Then it will work right.

It is in the right position in the pic.... But the Gap was to big in between the 2 points...

[shortrackskater]

Okay...making more sense. Thanks to both of you. Sorry if I'm not getting it so quickly here...I'm trying but just a lot slower with EM's rather than S plussessssssssss!!!  
I'll report back soon...yard work is calling. 

[drfreeze1739]

Your not to far from me.

Your in the OC also...

I live between knotts and disnyland...

[OldReno]

@DrFreeze, The problem is not that the gap is too big.  the zero switch does not affect your pays.
Here's what happened -- when you lowered your zero stop bumper, not only does it close the switch a little bit, but the biggie here is that it ALSO hits a little tab that is on the back of your spiral cam.  Lowering your bumper physically moves the spiral cam just a little bit, and that is what moved the fingers on your payboard just enough to the right to hit on the hot pay tabs.  Before, it was off the pay tabs which was causing your no-pay problems, and when you pulled on the hopper, you made those fingers make contact.
Look back by the zero stop, and you will see that little tab sticking out of the back of the spiral.  That is what fixed your pay problem., not the zero switch itself.  Hope that makes sense.
Please reread the above paragraph, because I want to make sure you understand what happened when you adjusted your zero stop.
The main purpose of the zero stop assembly, is to adjust the wipers, NOT to adjust the zero switch.  You can adjust the zero switch anytime with some needlenose pliers or switch tool.  It is important to me to know that you know the switch itself does not affect pays.